Do Afro American men get treated with respect as teachers in Thailand ?

[Nickelbeer]

On 12/30/2021 at 3:03 AM, radiochaser said:

I have a very dark skinned Thai nephew that my wife supported from elementary, to highschool and as he was attending a University in Bangkok.  He completed his education and receivied a degree in mechanical engineering, with high grades.  

He had his choice of where and who to work for within 2 months of graduating.  He chose the one that paid the most money, which I think was aout 25,000 baht a month, but I could be wrong about that, but it was a very high starting salary.  

So I do not understand fully the issue with dark skinned Thai's being discriminated against because of the dark color of their skin.  

As to Americans of African decent, I have known several who married Thai women, both in Thailad and here in the U.S. of A..  None of them seem to have a problem from other Thai's from an apparent racist attitude based on the color of their skin.  

 

Racism in Thailand is infinitely variable. Some no longer accept it.  Others are as bigoted as their parents.  A very strange culture for an American, even a WHITE American.  Discrimination here takes forms that are not easily quantifiable. Skin color is only part of the equation.

[ArcticFox]

The actual question is do any foreigner teacher receive respect in Thailand?

[2009]

On 12/29/2021 at 2:44 AM, cdemundo said:

"All you need to teach English in Thailand is a white face and a white shirt".

That is an unfortunate fact in the Land of Smiles.

Until your waivers run out and then you need a diploma.

Edited January 1, 2022 by 2009

[2009]

31 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

The actual question is do any foreigner teacher receive respect in Thailand?

It depends on the school, I think.

[FritsSikkink]

16 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

I am about as. white as I could possibly be and have a Master's Degree. I am STILL not considered equal to the poorest Thai person. It is a preferential culture. Japan is racist too, and China to some extent.  Thailand is a country where they still sell Confederate flag t-shirts and Nazi regalia. Casual racism is certainly no surprise.

Do you speak Thai?

[FritsSikkink]

On 12/29/2021 at 6:47 PM, Sheryl said:

One of the things that Bkk people openly hold against people in Issan is their (comparatively) darker skin.

 

Lots of Thai-Chinese in Bkk and those not Thai-Chinese will go to great lengths to look so.

 

There is quite open dislike of, and discrimination toward, darker skinned people in Bangkok and surrounding area.

Darker skin or less educated?

[JimmyJ]

There was discussion of some Thais looking down on Isaan people due to their skin being darker.

 

In the USA within the African American community some have dislike for darker skin fellow African Americans.

 

One of Spike Lee's early films was about this topic,

which is how I first learned of this prejudice.

 

 

[pacovl46]

On 12/29/2021 at 9:03 PM, radiochaser said:

I have a very dark skinned Thai nephew that my wife supported from elementary, to highschool and as he was attending a University in Bangkok.  He completed his education and receivied a degree in mechanical engineering, with high grades.  

He had his choice of where and who to work for within 2 months of graduating.  He chose the one that paid the most money, which I think was aout 25,000 baht a month, but I could be wrong about that, but it was a very high starting salary.  

So I do not understand fully the issue with dark skinned Thai's being discriminated against because of the dark color of their skin.  

As to Americans of African decent, I have known several who married Thai women, both in Thailad and here in the U.S. of A..  None of them seem to have a problem from other Thai's from an apparent racist attitude based on the color of their skin.  

 

Well, do you ever see any really dark skinned Thais employed in jobs that serve customers like in banks, insurance companies or any other white collar job? Do you see any Thai dark skinned Thai models in advertisements across town or on TV? You rarely see any dark skinned Thai actors either unless their comedians or cast in outcast/low social ranking roles. It’s an undeniable fact that Thais are obsessed with white skin because it’s only the low class that has to work jobs exposed to the sun (that’s their way of thinking). Thailand has whitening creams for every part of the human body! When I was still teaching I heard numerous times Thai teachers tell dark skinned kindergarten students that they’re not beautiful/handsome because of their dark skin. Needless to say that they weren’t happy about it upon hearing it. Now, I’m not saying that all Thais think like that and that none of the dark skinned Thais can get any well paying job, but just because you don’t know any or have never witnessed it yourself doesn’t mean that the issue isn’t there! I’ve posted this before, but I know a guy who has to work on the parking lot of the hospital next to Central Bang Na despite the fact that he has a degree in banking because he has really dark skin and no bank would hire him. So there’s that! 

Edited January 1, 2022 by pacovl46

[pacovl46]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:51 AM, Jingthing said:

Paid less.
 

Exactly! 

[jayboy]

20 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Darker skin or less educated?

That's a question that needs to be unpacked.There are many Thais who rationalize their urban privilege and contempt for genuine democracy by referring to darker skin Thais as "uneducated." Apart from the common error of confusing lack of education with lack of intelligence, they always ignore the massive skewing of government expenditure on education towards Bangkok.Traditionally Bangkok based politicians needed the darker skinned rural millions to bolster their political strength, but very few made any serious effort to take them seriously and meet their needs.He Who Cannot Be Named put an end to all that and scared the pants of the old guard.Naturally he, his family, and those who thought like him were then sidelined permanently.(Yes I know he was corrupt so don't bother pointing that out)

 

The odd thing about this prejudice is that it is found all over Asia, even India.Asian lefties often blame the malign influence of the Western colonizers for it.That is nonsense because the the preference for white creamy skin predates the arrival of Western imperialism by thousands of years.In Thailand the manifestation of this prejudice is often laughable, for example those plump pudding faced girls who used to win beauty pageants when other Thai visions of beauty were ignored.Obviously part of the problem is good old fashioned class prejudice and the fear of being confused for someone who works in the fields.There's an irony here since the well off Sino Thai urbanites who are among the most prejudiced mostly have ancestors who not so long ago were sweltering in the rice fields of Southern China.

 

All this seems depressing but there's good news.Thailand and social attitudes are rapidly changing.The dinosaurs cannot resist the inevitable.In addition there are many genuinely upper class types who are very dark skinned.I know several such who attended English public schools and Oxbridge.At a personal level I'm not sure there's much individual prejudice anyway.By and large Thais are kinder about class differences than England where every man, as Bernard Shaw noted, is branded on the tongue.But even England is changing for the better on that front.

[mrwebb8825]

Can we just clear 1 thing up? None of you are from Africa. Your parents have never been there. Most likely your grandparents have never been there. Slavery in the states ended over 150 yrs ago. That horse is dead, buried, decomposed and returned to the dust of the Earth.

Now, PEOPLE with dark skin, no matter where they come from, do get looked down upon in Thailand by Thais. Fact of life. Can you claim it was any different in China before you came here? (unless you're a member of the NBA)

[cdemundo]

On 1/1/2022 at 4:14 AM, pacovl46 said:

Well, do you ever see any really dark skinned Thais employed in jobs that serve customers like in banks, insurance companies or any other white collar job? Do you see any Thai dark skinned Thai models in advertisements across town or on TV? You rarely see any dark skinned Thai actors either unless their comedians or cast in outcast/low social ranking roles. It’s an undeniable fact that Thais are obsessed with white skin because it’s only the low class that has to work jobs exposed to the sun (that’s their way of thinking). Thailand has whitening creams for every part of the human body! When I was still teaching I heard numerous times Thai teachers tell dark skinned kindergarten students that they’re not beautiful/handsome because of their dark skin. Needless to say that they weren’t happy about it upon hearing it. Now, I’m not saying that all Thais think like that and that none of the dark skinned Thais can get any well paying job, but just because you don’t know any or have never witnessed it yourself doesn’t mean that the issue isn’t there! I’ve posted this before, but I know a guy who has to work on the parking lot of the hospital next to Central Bang Na despite the fact that he has a degree in banking because he has really dark skin and no bank would hire him. So there’s that! 

Not so long ago the prejudice against manual workers and dark skin was present in the US.

My mother told me that in her youth people tried to avoid getting a sun tan because people would think they were farm laborers or gardeners.

In my youth it was ok to have a tan that looked like you got it at the beach, but a "farmer tan" was considered low class. "Farmer tan" of course being head, neck and arms tan with the rest of you upper body being ghost white.

[thaitom]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:17 AM, ArcticFox said:

The actual question is do any foreigner teacher receive respect in Thailand?

No

[fredwiggy]

2 hours ago, thaitom said:

No

You are basing your answer on? I have no problem with the students or teachers, schools I help at, nor do the other teachers I'm associated with. Some people make judgements based on knowing a few out of millions of people, and it isn't wise.

[thaitom]

52 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You are basing your answer on? I have no problem with the students or teachers, schools I help at, nor do the other teachers I'm associated with. Some people make judgements based on knowing a few out of millions of people, and it isn't wise.

Based on over 18 years of teaching in several Asian countries ,From Hakwons in South Korea to public schools in Thailand ,China, Saudi Arabia ect... 

[fredwiggy]

13 minutes ago, thaitom said:

Based on over 18 years of teaching in several Asian countries ,From Hakwons in South Korea to public schools in Thailand ,China, Saudi Arabia ect... 

Funny how I and the other teachers I know here say different. I understand you have seen differently, but the school I work with is well known all over Thailand, and the owner works with schools everywhere in Isaan, and he's told me the same I've noticed. Maybe the other countries you've taught at are different towards foreigners, but I've seen no prejudice here, yet.

[Nickelbeer]

On 1/1/2022 at 12:03 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Do you speak Thai?

Nope, and don't want to learn. I am not interested in their language, only their relatively low cost of living.

[Nickelbeer]

9 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Absolutely NOTHING you could do or say would make a smidgen of difference in the attitude of Thai people towards foreigners. Might as well take the easy road.

[Longwood50]

6 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

Absolutely NOTHING you could do or say would make a smidgen of difference in the attitude of Thai people towards foreigners. Might as well take the easy road

I "might" agree somewhat with you.  However the statement of the OP pretty well characterized his opinion of the Thai's.  If he thinks that somehow his attitude is not recognized and returned in kind, he is fooling himself. 

While you will never win over everyone who shows prejudice against foreigners, I have always opted for the approach that I treat people the way I hope they treat me back.  

If he showed some degree of respect for the Thai's instead of calling them a bunch of criminals, he might find their attitude towards him improves. 

 

[Nickelbeer]

5 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

I "might" agree somewhat with you.  However the statement of the OP pretty well characterized his opinion of the Thai's.  If he thinks that somehow his attitude is not recognized and returned in kind, he is fooling himself. 

While you will never win over everyone who shows prejudice against foreigners, I have always opted for the approach that I treat people the way I hope they treat me back.  

If he showed some degree of respect for the Thai's instead of calling them a bunch of criminals, he might find their attitude towards him improves. 

 

Once they EARN my respect, they will have it. None have stepped up to the plate, thus far.  Thay need about forty years of brutal colonization.

[ohno]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:46 PM, EricTh said:

 

How do you explain the many Filipino teachers in Thailand? They are not what a native English speaker should look like.

 

 

Easy to explain. They get paid less money.

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, ohno said:

 

Easy to explain. They get paid less money.

Well if they have a Pinoy accent being paid less is justified. Thais picking up Pinoy accented English is just wrong.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Jingthing

[EricTh]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well if they have a Pinoy accent being paid less is justified. Thais picking up Pinoy accented English is just wrong.

I can understand a Pinoy accent much better than a Thai accent. Thai people just can't pronounce many consonant endings like 's'. 

 

At least the Pinoy can.

 

 

[The Hammer2021]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:17 AM, ArcticFox said:

The actual question is do any foreigner teacher receive respect in Thailand?

Not the ones who taught you lol..The ones I knew in the 90s here were loved and respected by their  students: Quite rightly..They were committed, qualified and good fun

[The Hammer2021]

3 minutes ago, EricTh said:

I can understand a Pinoy accent much better than a Thai accent. Thai people just can't pronounce many consonant endings like 's'. 

 

At least the Pinoy can.

 

 

'Constanant clusters' are a problem and require special attention  which Thai students don't get in school.

[habanero]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:55 AM, RandiRona said:

Either this is a sarcasm or a well written advertisement for Thailand.

Also, Thai's don't use the term Afro or African American. To them you are either from Africa or America. They would never use the term Laotian Thai or Burmese Thai to identify themselves. Even if they are from Isaan, and their roots probably come from Laos. They still identify as Thai. 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

Nope, and don't want to learn. I am not interested in their language, only their relatively low cost of living.

Than you shouldn't moan that nobody is interested in you, don't think many people in your country are have much respect for people who are only attracted in the low pricing and refuse to talk the local language.

[mrwebb8825]

12 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Funny how I and the other teachers I know here say different. I understand you have seen differently, but the school I work with is well known all over Thailand, and the owner works with schools everywhere in Isaan, and he's told me the same I've noticed. Maybe the other countries you've taught at are different towards foreigners, but I've seen no prejudice here, yet.

People at the "low end of the dislike scale" generally don't dislike each other or those around them, especially in Thailand. Issan is looked down upon the most in all of Thailand by the rest of the country followed closely by the south.

[Nickelbeer]

16 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Than you shouldn't moan that nobody is interested in you, don't think many people in your country are have much respect for people who are only attracted in the low pricing and refuse to talk the local language.

Lunatic logic and simplistic thinking. Low cost of living is the ONLY reason a lower middle class person like me would move to Thailand. Even the poorest states in the USA are too expensive.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Nickelbeer

[Nickelbeer]

16 hours ago, habanero said:

Also, Thai's don't use the term Afro or African American. To them you are either from Africa or America. They would never use the term Laotian Thai or Burmese Thai to identify themselves. Even if they are from Isaan, and their roots probably come from Laos. They still identify as Thai. 

That is debatable. I am as white as I can possibly be and I have had Thai people call me a "n*****r because they know that it is offensive. It is all about insulting you as much as possible.