Cloth face masks not recommended against Omicron

[swm59nj]

There are cloth face masks that are N95 and N99.  Which are better than a paper type medical mask in any store. 
For example.  I use an N99 mask which has three layers.  I purchase them from a major mask company in the UK. 

[roquefort]

13 hours ago, James105 said:

The only logical reason I can see for mask mandates is that the people imposing them have financial interest in the companies that make them. 

It's just virtue-signalling from governments that have to be seen to "do something", however ineffective.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

If masks made a difference it would be easy to point at countries that implemented mask mandates and infer a clear distinction from these countries vs countries that did not.  I simply used Wales / England as a case in point since they have similar climate / demographic, and in this case the country with higher infections per 100,000 people is the one implementing mask mandates.    

 

You don't seriously believe China sell directly to consumers and health organisations in countries such as the UK do you?  This is the kind of thing I was referring to and I expect this type of story is repeated in most governments the world over:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/16/michael-gove-backer-won-164m-in-ppe-contracts-after-vip-lane-referral

 

There is profit to be made by forcing people to wear a piece of cloth/plastic over their faces.    

You claimed

"masks were mandated in Germany in Jan 2021 and it made no difference."

 

You then claimed

"These things are so ineffective it is impossible to tell the difference between covid transmission rates where countries have mandated masks vs countries that have not."

 

As for your conspiracy theory nonsense statement: 

"The only logical reason I can see for mask mandates is that the people imposing them have financial interest in the companies that make them."

 

The allegation against Gove is not about the need for masks its about the alleged preferential awarding of a contract over other suppliers.

 

Try a little harder.

 

Edit: I hate wearing masks but will continue to do so for my own and others health in the recommended settings.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[BritManToo]

13 hours ago, smedly said:

if this is the case then governments including in Thailand should be providing them free since they are forcing people to wear them.

Hardly a major expense.

I've been using the same one since COVID started.

[Rimmer]

A couple of troll post removed

[James105]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You claimed

"masks were mandated in Germany in Jan 2021 and it made no difference."

 

You then claimed

"These things are so ineffective it is impossible to tell the difference between covid transmission rates where countries have mandated masks vs countries that have not."

 

As for your conspiracy theory nonsense statement: 

"The only logical reason I can see for mask mandates is that the people imposing them have financial interest in the companies that make them."

 

The allegation against Gove is not about the need for masks its about the alleged preferential awarding of a contract over other suppliers.

 

Try a little harder.

 

 

Sigh.  My point remains that Wales had a mask mandate and England did not.   If masks were effective then Wales would have a lower case rate than England would it not?  

 

Anyway, I get it.   You have bought into the mask narrative.  It is pointless arguing as no matter how clear the data is that shows they are ineffective, you will never, ever believe the numbers and will always believe the narrative so I am not going to continue arguing.  All the best.   

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, James105 said:

Sigh.  My point remains that Wales had a mask mandate and England did not.   If masks were effective then Wales would have a lower case rate than England would it not?  

 

Anyway, I get it.   You have bought into the mask narrative.  It is pointless arguing as no matter how clear the data is that shows they are ineffective, you will never, ever believe the numbers and will always believe the narrative so I am not going to continue arguing.  All the best.   

Your point is nonsense as already demonstrated but yes I agree, its pointless arguing with someone who does not believe in science and basic physics. All the best to you.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[BE88]

[skorp13]

16 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Just as a side note, the air filtration system inside newer planes is highly efficient and as effective as covid hospital wards in some studies. Thats before Omicron, not sure if that changes things a bit?

Not on the bathrooms where everyone takes their masks off to wash their face or brush their teeth. Also how effective is a mask when we take them off to eat while cramped shoulder to shoulder in cattle class?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, skorp13 said:

Not on the bathrooms where everyone takes their masks off to wash their face or brush their teeth. Also how effective is a mask when we take them off to eat while cramped shoulder to shoulder in cattle class?

I said highly efficient not perfect

[Virt]

5 hours ago, James105 said:

 

There is profit to be made by forcing people to wear a piece of cloth/plastic over their faces.    

There is a profit, but the use of masks worldwide also is a HUGE problem for the environment.

 

I don't understand why the environmental warriors are not all over this.

 

It's estimated we use 129 billion facemasks pr month.

129 billion..........

That's 3 million masks every minute.

 

Some are concerned that masks could be a bigger problem than plastic bags.

 

https://www.sdu.dk/en/nyheder/forskningsnyheder/mundbind-er-en-tikkende-plastikbombe

 

Another somewhat older article says 17 millions N95 masks leaves the same environmental footprint as eating 370.000 steaks or drive a car around the globe more than 1000 times.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ecochain.com/knowledge/footprint-face-masks-comparison/&ved=2ahUKEwjLr5y2woj1AhXmSPEDHQ6pAhkQFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1P7B-9H7q4njozmNHM0jaQ

 

And now I'm just theorizing so bare with me....

If we say a normal surgical mask has approx 3 times lower environment footprint than N95 masks that's roughly the same as 125.000 steaks for 17 million masks.

If we try and scale that up to the monthly use of facemasks it's the same as eating 2.8 billion steaks.

 

Just theorizing but if it's anywhere close to that, it's a HUGE environmental problem.

 

Masks serve a purpose right now, but we need to drop them as soon it's possible.

Otherwise we will have to pay the bill later on.

 

[skorp13]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I said highly efficient not perfect

It's an on or off switch bro, any of these variants don't take meal breaks

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, skorp13 said:

It's an on or off switch bro, any of these variants don't take meal breaks

Sure that's why you have to take personal responsibility and take into account all factors not just air filtration, there is no perfect tool to stop infection, its a combination of many measures and even then you can still get caught out.

[PETERTHEEATER]

I never knew that medical masks are not made from cloth.......

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sure that's why you have to take personal responsibility and take into account all factors not just air filtration, there is no perfect tool to stop infection, its a combination of many measures and even then you can still get caught out.

The anti masker crowd only sees one side of the equation unfortunately, while those of us on the other side see our views and the science for what it is.  Trying to have someone who is selfish and uncaring take personal responsibility is a huge chasm to cross.  Nothing is for sure in life except Death and Taxes.

Edited December 29, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Virt]

11 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The anti masker crowd only sees one side of the equation unfortunately, while those of us on the other side see our views and the science for what it is.  Trying to have someone who is selfish and uncaring take personal responsibility is a huge chasm to cross.  Nothing is for sure in life except Death and Taxes.

It's possible to be in-between and look at both sides.

I really hate those things, but I'm wearing them if it's required.

Bought roughly 1000 certified surgical masks during the pandemic so far, but i still hate them.

 

I read many of the studies about facemasks and to be honest, not all studies agree.

Some seems way to optimistic and some to pessimistic.

Results from various studies are all over the dart board.

 

They do serve a purpose, but I'm sure you too see the misuse of masks daily.

Not worn currently, touched constantly, taken on and off many times a day without wearer sanitize hands each time as recommended.

What could happen in worst case if someone infected constantly touches the masks and then other surfaces as well.

Someone else get infected by getting the virus through contact.

Of course the chance is low, but it's possible.

 

Do i sanitize hands each time i adjust, touch or remove my mask.

Hell no...

My hands would fall off using so much hand sanitizer, but i do sanitize my hands quite often.

 

 

I think why some government want us to wear masks is a combo of preventing spreading but also to use them as a signal, so we're aware that we are still in the middle of a pandemic and we automatically are aware of social distance and such.

 

I hate them, but i wear them.

 

At the moment on Tenerife where we the first week only had to use the masks inside, and that was ok and not messing with the vaccination.

Now they made them mandatory outdoors, so we wear them at all times when leaving our apartment.

That actually ruined a small part of the good experience.

I can't walk that long with a mask on without becoming windy, so now we had to stop our 2 hour long daily walks on the promenade, which is a bit sad.

 

We can do like 80% does on Tenerife and just walk around with no masks outdoors, but if it's mandatory, it's mandatory in my book.

So we use them all over.

 

But it also made me realize i will not book any flights to Thailand as long as masks are mandatory outdoors.

If i can't get the daily long walks it's not worth it.

Don't want to sit in the bar or beach all day long.

 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

16 minutes ago, Virt said:

It's possible to be in-between and look at both sides.

I really hate those things, but I'm wearing them if it's required.

Bought roughly 1000 certified surgical masks during the pandemic so far, but i still hate them.

 

I read many of the studies about facemasks and to be honest, not all studies agree.

Some seems way to optimistic and some to pessimistic.

Results from various studies are all over the dart board.

 

They do serve a purpose, but I'm sure you too see the misuse of masks daily.

Not worn currently, touched constantly, taken on and off many times a day without wearer sanitize hands each time as recommended.

What could happen in worst case if someone infected constantly touches the masks and then other surfaces as well.

Someone else get infected by getting the virus through contact.

Of course the chance is low, but it's possible.

 

Do i sanitize hands each time i adjust, touch or remove my mask.

Hell no...

My hands would fall off using so much hand sanitizer, but i do sanitize my hands quite often.

 

 

I think why some government want us to wear masks is a combo of preventing spreading but also to use them as a signal, so we're aware that we are still in the middle of a pandemic and we automatically are aware of social distance and such.

 

I hate them, but i wear them.

 

At the moment on Tenerife where we the first week only had to use the masks inside, and that was ok and not messing with the vaccination.

Now they made them mandatory outdoors, so we wear them at all times when leaving our apartment.

That actually ruined a small part of the good experience.

I can't walk that long with a mask on without becoming windy, so now we had to stop our 2 hour long daily walks on the promenade, which is a bit sad.

 

We can do like 80% does on Tenerife and just walk around with no masks outdoors, but if it's mandatory, it's mandatory in my book.

So we use them all over.

 

But it also made me realize i will not book any flights to Thailand as long as masks are mandatory outdoors.

If i can't get the daily long walks it's not worth it.

Don't want to sit in the bar or beach all day long.

 

 

 

We walk daily between 6 and 12 km, 1 hour to 2 or 3 hours wearing a mask, and have no problems being winded. I have just completed 2100km as of this morning for the whole year and this does not include the walking in malls, shopping or walking elsewhere.  For our daily routine we walk in Lumpini Park or on of the other large parks here in BKK, and still we wear the masks.  We dispose of them in a bucket filled with Detol inside the foyer for our unit upon our return, and then sanitize our hands before heading to the bathroom to wash ourselves. 

 

Not sure why you become winded, unless it is from a medical condition or because of age.  I have never smoked and have always been active.  Been wearing masks here in Bangkok even prior to Covid during the high PM 2.5 season.  The mask of choice is of course a KN95 mask, and we also wear another washable cloth KN-95 over the disposable masks which are worn below when we double mask.

 

I do understand many of your points and a mask is not a catch-all but is an item to assist in staying safe.  

 

 

[Virt]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

We walk daily between 6 and 12 km, 1 hour to 2 or 3 hours wearing a mask, and have no problems being winded. I have just completed 2100km as of this morning for the whole year and this does not include the walking in malls, shopping or walking elsewhere.  For our daily routine we walk in Lumpini Park or on of the other large parks here in BKK, and still we wear the masks.  We dispose of them in a bucket filled with Detol inside the foyer for our unit upon our return, and then sanitize our hands before heading to the bathroom to wash ourselves. 

 

Not sure why you become winded, unless it is from a medical condition or because of age.  I have never smoked and have always been active.  Been wearing masks here in Bangkok even prior to Covid during the high PM 2.5 season.  The mask of choice is of course a KN95 mask, and we also wear another washable cloth KN-95 over the disposable masks which are worn below when we double mask.

 

I do understand many of your points and a mask is not a catch-all but is an item to assist in staying safe.  

 

 

Non smoker, BMI 25, below age 55.

No respiratory conditions, but that masks prevents me from breathing normally when outdoors.

When i walk without masks, I'm one of those persons that more or less walk as fast as others jog.

 

No idea why that little mask cause problems, and that's maybe why i hate them.

I don't have any issues when it's only for use when sitting in a plane for several hours and such, but after like 10 minutes of walking i start to feel normal breathing is becoming an issue.

Can walk for hours without a mask and have no breathing issues then.

 

I could of course just wear the 1 layer cloth masks, but what's the point of that if surgical masks provide a better protection.

 

Thankfully i live in a country that never had made masks mandatory outdoors during this entire pandemic.

If they did i would have to shift to face Shields which are allowed here, but they honestly don't protect a whole lot.

[ThailandRyan]

The confused emojis left on my posts really do say it all.  

[Bkk Brian]

Omicron spreading due to short-range virus aerosols that easily enter mouth, nose: Siriraj doctor

 

Nithiphat said an Omicron cluster occurred at a restaurant in Kalasin on Monday, where more than 20 people contracted the virus from a couple who had travelled back from Belgium. He said a number of musicians at the restaurant were infected even though they did not come into close contact with the couple because the variant can spread easily in a short range.

 

According to Nithiphat, the size of the Omicron aerosol is up to 50 micrometres in diameter (about the size of a hair), which is 10 times bigger than normal aerosols but can be inhaled through the nose and mouth.

 

Therefore, he urged business operators and customers alike to strictly abide by virus prevention measures, especially the quality of face masks used and proper ventilation at venues.

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40010566

3wC5iWgLipbTL5bDuxJo.webp

[kimamey]

11 hours ago, James105 said:

If masks made a difference it would be easy to point at countries that implemented mask mandates and infer a clear distinction from these countries vs countries that did not.  I simply used Wales / England as a case in point since they have similar climate / demographic, and in this case the country with higher infections per 100,000 people is the one implementing mask mandates.    

 

You don't seriously believe China sell directly to consumers and health organisations in countries such as the UK do you?  This is the kind of thing I was referring to and I expect this type of story is repeated in most governments the world over:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/16/michael-gove-backer-won-164m-in-ppe-contracts-after-vip-lane-referral

 

There is profit to be made by forcing people to wear a piece of cloth/plastic over their faces.    

There's profit to be made from most medical interventions but that doesn't mean they don't work and aren't needed.

 

I've just had my prostate removed due to cancer. There's profit for the companies that provided all the medical supplies and equipment. That includes the extremely expensive MRI scanner and the robotic surgery equipment. There was profit for the private hospital that carried out the procedure under the NHS. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have had the operation or that it won't work.

Edited December 29, 2021 by kimamey

[Virt]

18 hours ago, ThLT said:

If I spit at the lower area of your face, and you wear a mask, it will make a difference. ????

 

Are you not wearing a mask yourself? That would cause a mess if you spit with a mask on ????

 

Just like it does when you try and take a zip of your beer and forget your are still wearing a mask.

[Maybole]

This has been well documented. face masks do not prevent you catching a Covid virus. The idea of them is to reduce an infected person's ability to spread it by reducing the area covered by his breath.

[Kinnock]

I didn't think any masks, except the ones that are part of full bio hazard protection suits, were intended to protect the wearer?  The aim is to reduce the range of coughs and exhaled air to help protect others.

[The Hammer2021]

On 12/28/2021 at 10:06 PM, kimamey said:

Much of what you say is true but the last time I wore a mask on a plane I don't remember anything like suffocation. A human will expel far more air than can be contained in a mask so most will exit the mask and air of similar composition to that which you would normally inhale if you weren't wearing a mask will pass through the fabric of the mask and into your lungs. It might be restricted compared to not wearing a mask  but you won't suffocate. The air in a plane is constantly changed and filtered as well.

The air on a plane is filthy

[spermwhale]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:09 AM, ThLT said:

Same virus. If cloth masks don't work for Omicron... they don't work for Delta, Alpha, etc. ????

Cloth masks were NEVER recommended for use. nice try

[spermwhale]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:40 AM, James105 said:

So the goalposts are shifting on masks for the new variant.   Has the size of the pathogen changed?  Has the mode of transmission changed?  Or is this an implicit admission that anything that cannot block omicron also cannot block any other variant?   Pseudo science.  

No shifting goalposts. They have never recommended cloth masks for protection. Nice try there 

[Stargeezr]

The cheap blue masks and cloth masks have never given the people who wear them any protection

at all. Those masks protect other people from the wearer. Only KN95 and N95 masks give

some protection to the people who wear them. This has been the facts for all COVID viruses since

the beginning.  So if you want any protection, buy the N95 types if yu can actually find any.

  Of course I have seen many people with the plastic face shields only and have told them that

they had zero protection. One told me that I was lying , and I said for her to phone any hospital and

ask the staff there if I was lying, 2 days later we met shopping again and she had both mask and 

face shield on, and she was wearing a KN95, as the nurse told her about the cheap versions and

how there was no protection with them.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, Stargeezr said:

The cheap blue masks and cloth masks have never given the people who wear them any protection

at all.

And yet I've been wearing one (the same one) since March 2020 and not caught COVID!

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Stargeezr said:

The cheap blue masks and cloth masks have never given the people who wear them any protection

at all. Those masks protect other people from the wearer. Only KN95 and N95 masks give

some protection to the people who wear them. This has been the facts for all COVID viruses since

the beginning.  So if you want any protection, buy the N95 types if yu can actually find any.

  Of course I have seen many people with the plastic face shields only and have told them that

they had zero protection. One told me that I was lying , and I said for her to phone any hospital and

ask the staff there if I was lying, 2 days later we met shopping again and she had both mask and 

face shield on, and she was wearing a KN95, as the nurse told her about the cheap versions and

how there was no protection with them.

I would not say NO protection. They protect from droplets. But only very partial protectipn from aerosols.