ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[JBChiangRai]

In Ireland EV sales are outperforming the market.

 

Sales of new electric cars outperform market (msn.com)

[vinny41]

31 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

In Ireland EV sales are outperforming the market.

 

Sales of new electric cars outperform market (msn.com)

Uptake of new electric cars is being driven by purchases for large fleets, with those volumes rising 10.7%.

Registrations of the vehicles by private buyers declined by 2.0%.

 

That is UK business market not Ireland 

If you’re a business owner, you can also benefit considerably from tax savings on electric cars. Since April 2021, brand-new, zero-emission EVs have qualified for a First Year Allowance (FYA), which allows for 100% of the EV cost to be offset against yearly taxable profits.

The FYA benefit must be redeemed in the same year the EV was purchased

https://connectedkerb.com/stories-and-reports/understanding-electric-vehicle-tax-benefits-in-the-uk-driving-towards-savings/#:~:text=Since April 2021%2C brand-new,year the EV was purchased.

 

For Ireland

New electric car sales drop for fourth month in a row

Just over 1,000 new electric cars were sold here in May, down over 39% on the same month last year.

This is the fourth month in a row that new EV sales have dropped.

New figures from the Society of the Irish Motor Industry (SIMI) show that just over 10,000 new EVs have been registered across the country so far this year, down almost 22% on the same period in 2023.

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0604/1452944-new-electric-car-sales-drop-for-fourth-month-in-a-row/

[JBChiangRai]

Yes, you are right, that article in an Irish newspaper was talking about the British market, they should have made that clear.

 

It shows what a difference price makes, in this case price with subsidy.

 

 

[vinny41]

32 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Yes, you are right, that article in an Irish newspaper was talking about the British market, they should have made that clear.

 

It shows what a difference price makes, in this case price with subsidy.

 

 

For UK business its something of a no brainer

example if running a business and the accountant advises the company is liable for a large tax bill and the accountant advises

1) purchase a neta V  company is still left with large tax bill

2) purchase a BYD seal company is still left with a smaller tax bill

3) purchase a BMW IX3 and company will pay no tax

Most people given a choice will opt for the BMW IX3

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

For UK business its something of a no brainer

example if running a business and the accountant advises the company is liable for a large tax bill and the accountant advises

1) purchase a neta V  company is still left with large tax bill

2) purchase a BYD seal company is still left with a smaller tax bill

3) purchase a BMW IX3 and company will pay no tax

Most people given a choice will opt for the BMW IX3

Not really enough information available in your example to make a sound decision on what to buy. 

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Not really enough information available in your example to make a sound decision on what to buy. 

The point I was making is

If you’re a business owner in the UK , you can also benefit considerably from tax savings on electric cars. Since April 2021, brand-new, zero-emission EVs have qualified for a First Year Allowance (FYA), which allows for 100% of the EV cost to be offset against yearly taxable profits.

The FYA benefit must be redeemed in the same year the EV was purchased

so my examples were if in the UK you were looking at a tax bill of the UK equivalent of baht B3 million would people choose the BMW IX3 reducing the tax bill to zero over a BYD seal which would still leave you with a tax Bill of the UK equivalent if B1.5 million baht

it can be any models i just gave those models as an example

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The point I was making is

If you’re a business owner in the UK , you can also benefit considerably from tax savings on electric cars. Since April 2021, brand-new, zero-emission EVs have qualified for a First Year Allowance (FYA), which allows for 100% of the EV cost to be offset against yearly taxable profits.

The FYA benefit must be redeemed in the same year the EV was purchased

so my examples were if in the UK you were looking at a tax bill of the UK equivalent of baht B3 million would people choose the BMW IX3 reducing the tax bill to zero over a BYD seal which would still leave you with a tax Bill of the UK equivalent if B1.5 million baht

it can be any models i just gave those models as an example

I know what point you were trying to make. 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I know what point you were trying to make. 

So if you were running a business in the UK and you business was facing a tax bill of the UK equivalent of baht B3 million and your have the option of reducing that tax bill with the purchase of an EV

would you choose an EV that reduce the tax bill to zero or would you choose an EV that only reduced the tax bill by 50% or choosing an EV that you reduced the tax bill by 20%

[ExpatOilWorker]

47 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The point I was making is

If you’re a business owner in the UK , you can also benefit considerably from tax savings on electric cars. Since April 2021, brand-new, zero-emission EVs have qualified for a First Year Allowance (FYA), which allows for 100% of the EV cost to be offset against yearly taxable profits.

The FYA benefit must be redeemed in the same year the EV was purchased

so my examples were if in the UK you were looking at a tax bill of the UK equivalent of baht B3 million would people choose the BMW IX3 reducing the tax bill to zero over a BYD seal which would still leave you with a tax Bill of the UK equivalent if B1.5 million baht

it can be any models i just gave those models as an example

It amazed me that governments are so hell-bent on this EV nonsense that they will throw any amount of public money 💰 in an ever deeper and bottomless pit.

What is the catch? Control? Another green tax further down the road?

[Yellowtail]

53 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

So if you were running a business in the UK and you business was facing a tax bill of the UK equivalent of baht B3 million and your have the option of reducing that tax bill with the purchase of an EV

would you choose an EV that reduce the tax bill to zero or would you choose an EV that only reduced the tax bill by 50% or choosing an EV that you reduced the tax bill by 20%

I would not spend more unless my net spend was less. If my net spend is more, I would not. And I assume the depreciation schedule figures in as well. 

 

[Yellowtail]

25 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

It amazed me that governments are so hell-bent on this EV nonsense that they will throw any amount of public money 💰 in an ever deeper and bottomless pit.

What is the catch? Control? Another green tax further down the road?

They're true believers. 

[JBChiangRai]

It appears that demand for EV's from private buyers in the UK may in fact be greater than thought.

 

Because of the tax incentives on businesses, private buyers are increasingly turning to salary sacrifice to acquire their EV through their employer.

 

The car industry is wrong about private electric vehicle demand (msn.com)

 

 

[KhunLA]

For the EV haters, that think you'll never get the rated range at speeds.

 

Cruise control set @ 110, doing 109kph and usage is  13.4kWh per 100kms at that speed.

Equates to 345 kms range in ECO mode

Usage battery - 46.3kWh ÷ 13.4 = 3,455 X 100 = 345 kms

NEDC range 403, we rarely get that around town

WLTP range 320, at least get that, and usually more, up to 360 kms 'estimated' per charge.

 

Bit blurry as screenshot off vid

[Yellowtail]

Yeah, I can go almost 800km at 120kph

[JBChiangRai]

42 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, I can go almost 800km at 120kph

 

Please do, don't come back.

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Please do, don't come back.

Truth hurt? 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Truth hurt? 

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, I can go almost 800km at 120kph

Not in TH, and not in 6.67 hrs.  And not if you have a dog, wife or kids, without stopping ever hour or 3ish 

 

Did 680 kms yesterday, took 12 hrs, and only stopped 3 times, and none specifically to charge the car.  Car was ready before we were to leave.  First time actually surprising, as start charging at about 25%, and when it go to 97%, realized I was just finishing my coffee.

 

Probably one of our longest pit stops ever, as we usually leave anytime after 80%, usually 90-95% if there a long period ... but ... start in the 30-40% bracket.  So that was a good 45 min stop, when most are 30 min +/-, as the other 2 were.

 

Once the car hits 80% then, only time there after that is on us, which it always is.  Up to 80% goes in fast, the rest goes in waiting for us to finish up, and usually in the 90-95% range.  Which actually works out good.

 

Did have to make a pit stop at MG (non charging), but only took about 20 mins.  The rest was all driving.  Some through construction, minor gridlock through Krung Thep, actually not bad, other times, as posted 100-110 kph, though most 90 kph when possible.

 

PKK to Khao Kho, Phetchabun, w/less than 2 hrs of stops, no extra time for charging.  Over 10 freakin hours of driving.  Enjoying my 2 days of rest before continuing on.

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not in TH, and not in 6.67 hrs.  And not if you have a dog, wife or kids, without stopping ever hour or 3ish 

 

Did 680 kms yesterday, took 12 hrs, and only stopped 3 times, and none specifically to charge the car.  Car was ready before we were to leave.  First time actually surprising, as start charging at about 25%, and when it go to 97%, realized I was just finishing my coffee.

 

Probably one of our longest pit stops ever, as we usually leave anytime after 80%, usually 90-95% if there a long period ... but ... start in the 30-40% bracket.  So that was a good 45 min stop, when most are 30 min +/-, as the other 2 were.

 

Once the car hits 80% then, only time there after that is on us, which it always is.  Up to 80% goes in fast, the rest goes in waiting for us to finish up, and usually in the 90-95% range.  Which actually works out good.

 

Did have to make a pit stop at MG (non charging), but only took about 20 mins.  The rest was all driving.  Some through construction, minor gridlock through Krung Thep, actually not bad, other times, as posted 100-110 kph, though most 90 kph when possible.

 

PKK to Khao Kho, Phetchabun, w/less than 2 hrs of stops, no extra time for charging.  Over 10 freakin hours of driving.  Enjoying my 2 days of rest before continuing on.

Yeah, I was replying to your: "Cruise control set @ 110, doing 109kph and usage is  13.4kWh per 100kms at that speed.

Equates to 345 kms range in ECO mode..."

 

But apparently you only meant that for the moment you took the screen shot you had a range of 345km, which is something less then I get every time I spend five minutes filling up. 

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, I was replying to your: "Cruise control set @ 110, doing 109kph and usage is  13.4kWh per 100kms at that speed.

Equates to 345 kms range in ECO mode..."

 

But apparently you only meant that for the moment you took the screen shot you had a range of 345km, which is something less then I get every time I spend five minutes filling up. 

I've never needed more than 300 kms at any one stretch, as knocking of 4 hrs driving, which means we (3) have to P, stretch legs (avoid DVT at my age) & more importantly ... eat ... 

 

Unless O&A, topping up is less than 30 seconds at home, simply plugging in as I walk to the front door.   No Q'ing up, waiting for service, waiting to stop, waiting pay and get change, or smell the fumes of all ICEV spewing their crap exhaust. 

 

Saves hours every year, and for me, it's actually a special trip at home, as petrol station requires a longer drive & U-turn to get to, from house.  Not convenient at all, since not along my daily drive routines.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I've never needed more than 300 kms at any one stretch, as knocking of 4 hrs driving, which means we (3) have to P, stretch legs (avoid DVT at my age) & more importantly ... eat ... 

 

Unless O&A, topping up is less than 30 seconds at home, simply plugging in as I walk to the front door.   No Q'ing up, waiting for service, waiting to stop, waiting pay and get change, or smell the fumes of all ICEV spewing their crap exhaust. 

 

Saves hours every year, and for me, it's actually a special trip at home, as petrol station requires a longer drive & U-turn to get to, from house.  Not convenient at all, since not along my daily drive routines.

Got it. 

[KhunLA]

The usual, as rarely are we waiting for the car to get to 95%.  Car is usually there, and we're still not ready to head out.

 

As mentioned, pulled in, plugged in, dog & myself off for stroll, return, she's in the car, my turn to P, then wife & myself, stroll the vendors, hit 7-11, then she decides to P.  BYD pulls in and we're more than ready, and just waiting for wife to return.

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

@transam what is wrong with this MG?

A broken tie rod?

 

 

[CrossBones]

EV Much better

 

Way fewer moving parts

More reliable

More power (usually)

 

We purchase electricity from the grid because its much cheaper to generate electricity in a central location (power station) that it would be at home with a generator

 

Same principle for cars. Why generate power on the fly through combustion as its more efficient to generate it at power station - even if that power stations is fossil fuel.

[Fruit Trader]

34 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

@transam what is wrong with this MG?

A broken tie rod?

 

 

 

 

Either the electronic steering has lost the plot or its artificial intelligence has decided to adopt Thai driving habits.
 

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

 

Either the electronic steering has lost the plot or its artificial intelligence has decided to adopt Thai driving habits.
 

 

Neither, the car smelled some Chicken Chow Mein and fought against the driver to get to it.

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, CrossBones said:

EV Much better

 

Way fewer moving parts

More reliable

More power (usually)

 

We purchase electricity from the grid because its much cheaper to generate electricity in a central location (power station) that it would be at home with a generator

 

Same principle for cars. Why generate power on the fly through combustion as its more efficient to generate it at power station - even if that power stations is fossil fuel.

Based on sales figures, 10% of people will agree 👍 with you and 90% of people will disagree 👎 with you.

It is like saying a screwdriver is better than a hammer. They are both tools, but one is not better than the other, they each serve a different purpose.

[Presnock]

Interesting EPOCH news article today that almost 50 percent of EV users will switch back to ICE vehicles for their next car.  Many different reasons.

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, Presnock said:

Interesting EPOCH news article today that almost 50 percent of EV users will switch back to ICE vehicles for their next car.  Many different reasons.

I’ll bet two of the main reasons are inability to charge at home and frequent long distance trips. Would I be wrong?

[motdaeng]

11 hours ago, Presnock said:

Interesting EPOCH news article today that almost 50 percent of EV users will switch back to ICE vehicles for their next car.  Many different reasons.

 

providing no source or link to this claim makes it not worth reading.

(even i'm wondering where the 50% figure comes from ... maybe from a petrol company or toyota ?)