Which Insulation Material under the Roof?

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, gejohesch said:

We had all the dropped ceiling rewired up to the new steel structure,

Can you walk on that????

[gejohesch]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Can you walk on that????

Good question. I do not think so. I was actually worried that it could not even support the weight of the insulation batts, but fortunately that ended up not being a problem at all.

 

Workers took care not to walk on the dropped ceiling. They did not want to crash through it! You will see on some of the pics that they laid steel across the underlying beams so they could walk or even sit on them, and never put their weight directly on the ceiling. They removed the steel as they were progressing. I guess they would also use wooden planks if they were available.

[gejohesch]

Just now, gejohesch said:

Good question. I do not think so. I was actually worried that it could not even support the weight of the insulation batts, but fortunately that ended up not being a problem at all.

 

Workers took care not to walk on the dropped ceiling. They did not want to crash through it! You will see on some of the pics that they laid steel across the underlying beams so they could walk or even sit on them, and never put their weight directly on the ceiling. They removed the steel as they were progressing. I guess they would also use wooden planks if they were available.

I was also a bit worried that with all the coming and going, and rewiring to the new steel structure, the ceiling would start showing a few cracks underneath, seen from the habitation. And that we would have to repair and repaint. Nothing like that happened.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, gejohesch said:

Good question. I do not think so. I was actually worried that it could not even support the weight of the insulation batts, but fortunately that ended up not being a problem at all.

 

Workers took care not to walk on the dropped ceiling. They did not want to crash through it! You will see on some of the pics that they laid steel across the underlying beams so they could walk or even sit on them, and never put their weight directly on the ceiling. They removed the steel as they were progressing. I guess they would also use wooden planks if they were available.

Just to clarify....I did mean the steel sections that are suspended not the actual ceiling itself.

 

The reason I ask is our space has no insulation of any kind and I was wondering about getting in there to retro fit insulation.

[gejohesch]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Just to clarify....I did mean the steel sections that are suspended not the actual ceiling itself.

 

The reason I ask is our space has no insulation of any kind and I was wondering about getting in there to retro fit insulation.

steel sections that are "suspended"? can you be more specific, maybe refer to one of my pics?

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

steel sections that are "suspended"? can you be more specific, maybe refer to one of my pics?

Yes sure.......The steel sections that are, or appear to be, suspended from thin wires from the the roof trusses themselves. I assume the ceiling is attached to these sections from underneath.

[gejohesch]

7 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Yes sure.......The steel sections that are, or appear to be, suspended from thin wires from the the roof trusses themselves. I assume the ceiling is attached to these sections from underneath.

I think you are referring to the "rails" I was talking about. I would say definitely not. But there must be solid steel higher up in your house, supporting the roof. Thai workers will find ways to use that to move around, if necessary by welding in some extra steel just for the sake of having more support for their movements. They will remove that "extra steel" once finished. They do that all the time.

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

I think you are referring to the "rails" I was talking about. I would say definitely not. But there must be solid steel higher up in your house, supporting the roof. Thai workers will find ways to use that to move around, if necessary by welding in some extra steel just for the sake of having more support for their movements. They will remove that "extra steel" once finished. They do that all the time.

Rails....got it.....looks like a job for someone else then.....no intentions of crashing through our nice new ceilings......I'll let some unfortunate Thai do that......cheers.

 

[Encid]

21 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

The reason I ask is our space has no insulation of any kind and I was wondering about getting in there to retro fit insulation.

I see ceiling insulation not so much as a feature to keep the heat out, as the reflective sheets under the roof do a much better job.

I see ceiling insulation as feature to keep your cooler air-conditioned air from escaping into the roof cavity.

[Kwasaki]

15 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Yes sure.......The steel sections that are, or appear to be, suspended from thin wires from the the roof trusses themselves. I assume the ceiling is attached to these sections from underneath.

It's a tiled ceiling within a grid of T bars and cross T bars supported by wire. 

Like a room of ours but OP has rectangle ceiling tiles our one has square. 

 

[Will B Good]

Just now, Encid said:

I see ceiling insulation not so much as a feature to keep the heat out, as the reflective sheets under the roof do a much better job.

I see ceiling insulation as feature to keep your cooler air-conditioned air from escaping into the roof cavity.

Thanks..........I was slowly coming to the same conclusion....better to keep the heat out in the first place.

 

I should have been more involved in the build, but it is the wife's house and she doesn't always appreciate my input.

 

The roof/ceiling are both done and I am not sure how to tackle getting insulation under the roof tiles........and I think the only ventilation is through the roof tiles, so If I get it insulated we will then need to retrofit something to promote ventilation.....ßugger.

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Thanks..........I was slowly coming to the same conclusion....better to keep the heat out in the first place.

 

I should have been more involved in the build, but it is the wife's house and she doesn't always appreciate my input.

 

The roof/ceiling are both done and I am not sure how to tackle getting insulation under the roof tiles........and I think the only ventilation is through the roof tiles, so If I get it insulated we will then need to retrofit something to promote ventilation.....ßugger.

If your ceiling is non removable and you want to insulate the ceiling it is done by accessing a ceiling space from part removal of the roof.

Whether it could be carried out would be down to the ceiling structure.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If your ceiling is non removable and you want to insulate the ceiling it is done by accessing a ceiling space from part removal of the roof.

Whether it could be carried out would be down to the ceiling structure.

There is access through a hatch in one of the bathrooms........but as mentioned above moving around up there sounds fraught with difficulties.........I have asked the builder and he is saying no to ceiling insulation......he is worried about the additional weight!!!!!

 

That means insulation under the roof and finding methods to vent the roof space!!

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

There is access through a hatch in one of the bathrooms........but as mentioned above moving around up there sounds fraught with difficulties.........I have asked the builder and he is saying no to ceiling insulation......he is worried about the additional weight!!!!!

 

That means insulation under the roof and finding methods to vent the roof space!!

If a ceiling can't take the weight of fibre covered foil rolls for which it is designed to do then the only explanation is your builder don't wanna do it. 

 

The insulation of the underside of a roof can be done after but should be done while laying the roof is under construction.

[Excel]

20 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It's a tiled ceiling within a grid of T bars and cross T bars supported by wire. 

Like a room of ours but OP has rectangle ceiling tiles our one has square. 

 

Well they look like polystyrene ceiling tiles, a lethal death trap in the event of a fire. I thought those of us from the West understood the safety implications, or rather the dangers of that rubbish from the 1970's. Best rip that lot out, install a proper Gyproc ceiling and insulate above it.

[Will B Good]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

If a ceiling can't take the weight of fibre covered foil rolls for which it is designed to do then the only explanation is your builder don't wanna do it. 

 

The insulation of the underside of a roof can be done after but should be done while laying the roof is under construction.

Agree 100%.......I guess from his point of view.....having given a guarantee (for what it is worth) on the stability of the ceiling, why allow anything that might result in difficulties for him.

 

Looks like a retrofit under the tiles and fitting some ventilation.

[gejohesch]

54 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It's a tiled ceiling within a grid of T bars and cross T bars supported by wire. 

Like a room of ours but OP has rectangle ceiling tiles our one has square. 

 

I see. We used to have that sort of ceiling years back. It's OK and cheap enough, easy ti change "tiles" at a later stage if they get damaged, too. But certainly not the sort of stuff I would want to walk on!

[gejohesch]

50 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

There is access through a hatch in one of the bathrooms........but as mentioned above moving around up there sounds fraught with difficulties.........I have asked the builder and he is saying no to ceiling insulation......he is worried about the additional weight!!!!!

 

That means insulation under the roof and finding methods to vent the roof space!!

I would think you could lay thin insulation batts on top of your tiles (i.e. in the "attic" space, if you can access it), without risking to break them. In my own case, I used the SCG Stay Cool 6" batts but our dropped ceiling is probably stronger than your "tiled ceiling". SCG have also 3" (75mm) material, you find it at 369 THB per roll of 60cm x 4m (i.e. 2.4 sq m) in Global House or Home Pro. Could be the right stuff for you. Once you cut the bag out, it unrolls easily and you can pad it gently into its place. There was just a small issue in our case as there were lots of nails sticking out upwards from the dropped ceiling rails and the batts tended to rip open a bit. A little bit of TLC in the operation was required.

 

You can easily do an entire ceiling of say 40-60 sq m in a matter of 2 to 4 hours, I would say. Anyone nimble enough could do it for you, as long as there is some stronger stuff than your "tiled ceiling" under your roof - and there should be otherwise your roof would not exist in the first place!

Edited March 16, 2022 by gejohesch
adding a line

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

I see. We used to have that sort of ceiling years back. It's OK and cheap enough, easy ti change "tiles" at a later stage if they get damaged, too. But certainly not the sort of stuff I would want to walk on!

It's just ceiling system that was common and easy to install years ago. 

As seen it hang under a roof structure also under concrete planks of and upstairs room.

 

In our under roof space upstairs above the ceiling I used the steel structure to stand on with a plank also to install rolls of foil covered fibreglass insulation.

 

Not only was it better to contain the cool air from the air-con it reduced a considerable amount of noise from outside. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Kwasaki

[gejohesch]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It's just ceiling system that was common and easy to install years ago. 

As seen it hang under a roof structure also under concrete planks of and upstairs room.

Ah, in that case, it's not under the roof. I have no idea what to do then. Maybe blow insulation foam in the space between the ceiling and the base of the upstairs room? 

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

Ah, in that case, it's not under the roof. I have no idea what to do then. Maybe blow insulation foam in the space between the ceiling and the base of the upstairs room? 

Depends on the construction of your roof in relation to your ceiling type. 

There are roof cover with just suspended ceilings underside. 

Also there's roof cover with concrete plank structure below as a ceiling. 

[Encid]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

The roof/ceiling are both done and I am not sure how to tackle getting insulation under the roof tiles........and I think the only ventilation is through the roof tiles, so If I get it insulated we will then need to retrofit something to promote ventilation.....ßugger.

If it's too late to put insulation under the tiles then perhaps lay this over the top of the ceiling insulation batts?

The roof cavity would definitely need to be ventilated and a whirly-bird (or two) could be fitted.

Rodent/bird proof vents would provide air intakes so the whirly=bird(s) can extract the hot air.

 

[Encid]

21 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Is the spinning simply caused by warm air rising through the whirlybird?......If so the whirlybird will act to decrease the rate at which air vents out of the roof space.......if the spinning effect is caused by passing wind (not you personally)  then surely it would give some assistance to venting the roof space?

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Excel said:

Well they look like polystyrene ceiling tiles, a lethal death trap in the event of a fire. I thought those of us from the West understood the safety implications, or rather the dangers of that rubbish from the 1970's. Best rip that lot out, install a proper Gyproc ceiling and insulate above it.

Those are not polystyrene, they are probably fireproof in that they are a fibre reinforced plaster and are extremely common. The whole ceiling structure would collapse in a fire as the supports are thin steel or aluminium, but would provide no extra danger.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Encid said:

I see ceiling insulation not so much as a feature to keep the heat out, as the reflective sheets under the roof do a much better job.

I see ceiling insulation as feature to keep your cooler air-conditioned air from escaping into the roof cavity.

Ceiling insulation will make a very significant difference to keep heat out if you do not have a radiant barrier under your roof. I have empirical evidence of that. In our old house the ceiling got hot under the blue metal uninsulated metal roof. We added 60cm x 60cm x 5 ~ 10mm panels for an instant noticeable reduction in the heat radiation from the ceiling.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

It's a tiled ceiling within a grid of T bars and cross T bars supported by wire. 

Like a room of ours but OP has rectangle ceiling tiles our one has square. 

 

This ceiling is easy to add insulation to. There are insulation tiles that are the exact size of your current ones. You just push the tiles up enough to push the insulation tiles through. It will be a little more difficult with the tiles with light cans in them.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

This ceiling is easy to add insulation to. There are insulation tiles that are the exact size of your current ones. You just push the tiles up enough to push the insulation tiles through. It will be a little more difficult with the tiles with light cans in them.

We got above the ceiling in the roof space so it was not a problem and went over lights and light wire running in the ceiling.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

We got above the ceiling in the roof space so it was not a problem and went over lights and light wire running in the ceiling.

Probably I should have addressed the post to @Will B Good since it seems he may have similar tiles to yours and not know about the cut insulation designed specifically for that style of ceiling.

[gamb00ler]

earlier post to mine has same content

Edited March 16, 2022 by gamb00ler

[Will B Good]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

If it's too late to put insulation under the tiles then perhaps lay this over the top of the ceiling insulation batts?

The roof cavity would definitely need to be ventilated and a whirly-bird (or two) could be fitted.

Rodent/bird proof vents would provide air intakes so the whirly=bird(s) can extract the hot air.

 

Just been looking at that.....cheers