Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[onthedarkside]

Its a new phase of the war. If you're losing destroy everything you can. Despicable. Any notion of peace talks now have vanished until they are removed entirely from Ukraine.

[LosLobo]

13 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Reading some other information on other sites. It appears Putin's intentional bombing of the dam was meant to stop the Ukrainian counteroffensive, but by doing this he has committed his largest war crime atrocity.

 

Major Ukraine dam damaged, widespread flooding feared as war intensifies: Live updates (msn.com)

The Blitz did not help Hitler in breaking the British or stop them from launching a counter-offensive today in 1944 , it only strengthened their resolve.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Really? Putin is now bombing Kherson as civilians scramble to save their lives from floods caused by Putin's war crime bombing of Kakhovka Dam, whose reservoir would qualify as the 6th largest lake in continental Europe. And you still believe Russian propaganda?

 

 

 

knowing what you know brings you to a certain conclusion,. Knowing what I know brings me to a different conclusion. Who is to know which of as is right? 

Perhaps we are both wrong

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Really? Putin is now bombing Kherson as civilians scramble to save their lives from floods caused by Putin's war crime bombing of Kakhovka Dam, whose reservoir would qualify as the 6th largest lake in continental Europe. And you still believe Russian propaganda?

 

 

 

More confirmation:

 

 

[onthedarkside]

Troll post has been removed

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

knowing what you know brings you to a certain conclusion,. Knowing what I know brings me to a different conclusion. Who is to know which of as is right? 

Perhaps we are both wrong

Just heard both blaming one and other for dam damage, I believe it was the Russians who want to disrupt the up and coming offensive.

 

I said way back it would be something they may do, watch this space if Ukraines offensive goes well, Russia may not stop there ,there maybe reactor accidents with one still on-line.

[rudi49jr]

17 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Just heard both blaming one and other for dam damage, I believe it was the Russians who want to disrupt the up and coming offensive.

 

I said way back it would be something they may do, watch this space if Ukraines offensive goes well, Russia may not stop there ,there maybe reactor accidents with one still on-line.

Yeah, they really should start screwing with that nuclear power plant. I’m sure the fallout won’t reach Russia…..

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Yeah, they really should start screwing with that nuclear power plant. I’m sure the fallout won’t reach Russia…..

Somehow I don't think the fallout problem is about reaching Russia who would it probably also reach.

 

 

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Just heard both blaming one and other for dam damage, I believe it was the Russians who want to disrupt the up and coming offensive.

 

I said way back it would be something they may do, watch this space if Ukraines offensive goes well, Russia may not stop there ,there maybe reactor accidents with one still on-line.

It is a horrible situation.

The sad truth is that after all is said and done, and after all the pain suffering and destruction

Because just as we talk , moralising, and strategizing in out comfy chairs with our coffee and bagel. Some young life is horrible ended, a son is dead a husband  gone, A dad will never be at his daughter's wedding. 

And after all is said and done .Mark my words, The solution will be the same as the one that could had been reaches not only in the first day of the war, but even before it started. 

War is such a barbaric concept. Think about it , the concept that we will kill enough of you, until you submit to our demands.

Surely there must be a better way for intelligent civilized people to resolve our differences. Sadly  the reality is, Clearly displayed for everyone with eyes to see, that we are neither civilized or intelligent.  

[LosLobo]

11 minutes ago, sirineou said:

It is a horrible situation.

The sad truth is that after all is said and done, and after all the pain suffering and destruction

Because just as we talk , moralising, and strategizing in out comfy chairs with our coffee and bagel. Some young life is horrible ended, a son is dead a husband  gone, A dad will never be at his daughter's wedding. 

And after all is said and done .Mark my words, The solution will be the same as the one that could had been reaches not only in the first day of the war, but even before it started. 

War is such a barbaric concept. Think about it , the concept that we will kill enough of you, until you submit to our demands.

Surely there must be a better way for intelligent civilized people to resolve our differences. Sadly  the reality is, Clearly displayed for everyone with eyes to see, that we are neither civilized or intelligent.  

“Old Man Yells at Cloud" comes to mind.

 

You are trying to sell this to the wrong audience.

 

The only one that is not civilized and intelligent here is Putin.

[sirineou]

20 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

“Old Man Yells at Cloud" comes to mind.

 

You are trying to sell this to the wrong audience.

 

The only one that is not civilized and intelligent here is Putin.

Ok. 

 

[sammieuk1]

7 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Just heard both blaming one and other for dam damage, I believe it was the Russians who want to disrupt the up and coming offensive.

 

I said way back it would be something they may do, watch this space if Ukraines offensive goes well, Russia may not stop there ,there maybe reactor accidents with one still on-line.

One of the sides of course has a wanted child abducting war criminal as its mouthpiece and may well point to the right undermining direction ???? 

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

It is a horrible situation.

The sad truth is that after all is said and done, and after all the pain suffering and destruction

Because just as we talk , moralising, and strategizing in out comfy chairs with our coffee and bagel. Some young life is horrible ended, a son is dead a husband  gone, A dad will never be at his daughter's wedding. 

And after all is said and done .Mark my words, The solution will be the same as the one that could had been reaches not only in the first day of the war, but even before it started. 

War is such a barbaric concept. Think about it , the concept that we will kill enough of you, until you submit to our demands.

Surely there must be a better way for intelligent civilized people to resolve our differences. Sadly  the reality is, Clearly displayed for everyone with eyes to see, that we are neither civilized or intelligent.  

Quotes from people on France 24 talk programme can only confirm Ukraine cannot and should not give in and morally their right of course but then another says unless Putin goes it's sadly a case of how many soldiers do you have to lose.

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

One of the sides of course has a wanted child abducting war criminal as its mouthpiece and may well point to the right undermining direction ???? 

He also has a population of over 140 million against how many? also he doesn't care whether they die.

[Mavideol]

17 hours ago, onthedarkside said:

Its a new phase of the war. If you're losing destroy everything you can. Despicable. Any notion of peace talks now have vanished until they are removed entirely from Ukraine.

removing Russians from Ukraine would be only half of the job done, Vlad Putin and all his cronies have to be removed from any type of Russian government that way the job will be fully completed

[LosLobo]

15 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

removing Russians from Ukraine would be only half of the job done, Vlad Putin and all his cronies have to be removed from any type of Russian government that way the job will be fully completed

I disagree  the job won't be fully completed until all war crime perpetrators are prosecuted, full reparations are made including payments for loss of life, pain and suffering. 

 

And that Russia becomes fully UN Charter compliant and offers genuine guarantees that this genocide can never happened again.

[tgw]

1 minute ago, LosLobo said:

I disagree  the job won't be fully completed until all war crime perpetrators are prosecuted, full reparations are made including payments for loss of life, pain and suffering. 

 

And that Russia becomes fully UN Charter compliant and offers genuine guarantees that this genocide can never happened again.

you are correct, but for Ukraine and the rest of the world, pushing the Ruzzians out of Ukraine will be a good enough result.

 

then it will be the Russian people's task to finish the job. or not. up to them.

[rudi49jr]

23 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

removing Russians from Ukraine would be only half of the job done, Vlad Putin and all his cronies have to be removed from any type of Russian government that way the job will be fully completed

Removing Putin and his kleptocracy is going to be a hell of a job. Besides a few years of democracy, Russia and Russians have known nothing but tyrants and dictators. Autocratic leadership has been ingrained in Russian society and in the Russian mindset for centuries, it will be very hard to change that.

Removing the kleptocracy would also mean removing the oligarchs, and they’re not going to let all that money and power be taken away from them without a huge struggle. If Prigozhin can have his own private army of tens of thousands of fighters, so can other Russian billionaires.

It’s probably just a matter of time before Putin is either ousted or killed, but when that happens, I expect things to become very chaotic and violent. There’s just too much at stake, and people are willing to do crazy things to hold on to what they have, or take a stab at getting their hands on a sizeable slice of the loot themselves.

[Mavideol]

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I disagree  the job won't be fully completed until all war crime perpetrators are prosecuted, full reparations are made including payments for loss of life, pain and suffering. 

 

And that Russia becomes fully UN Charter compliant and offers genuine guarantees that this genocide can never happened again.

agree with your first paragraph and that will be a very hard task to accomplish, as for the second paragraph you are asking for the impossible, Russia (under Putin and his cronies) will never comply to any UN charter, like China they have their own charter

[Mavideol]

 as always, karma works on very fine ways... they didn't think about the outcome of their stupidity action

 

“No one on the Russian side was able to get away. All the regiments the Russians had on that side were flooded,” Capt Andrei Pidlisnyi told CNN.

Ukraine-Russia war news – latest: Putin’s troops ‘swept away’ in flooding from dam collapse, says Kyiv

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-russia-news-live-putin-043808513.html

[rudi49jr]

Putin won’t like this very much:

 

“Vladimir Putin was never the Soviet super spy he'd like us to believe. He was merely a KGB 'errand boy,' report says”

https://www.businessinsider.com/vladimir-putin-was-not-soviet-super-spy-stasi-report-2023-6?international=true&r=US&IR=T

 

[Seppius]

7 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Removing Putin and his kleptocracy is going to be a hell of a job. Besides a few years of democracy, Russia and Russians have known nothing but tyrants and dictators. Autocratic leadership has been ingrained in Russian society and in the Russian mindset for centuries, it will be very hard to change that.

Removing the kleptocracy would also mean removing the oligarchs, and they’re not going to let all that money and power be taken away from them without a huge struggle. If Prigozhin can have his own private army of tens of thousands of fighters, so can other Russian billionaires.

It’s probably just a matter of time before Putin is either ousted or killed, but when that happens, I expect things to become very chaotic and violent. There’s just too much at stake, and people are willing to do crazy things to hold on to what they have, or take a stab at getting their hands on a sizeable slice of the loot themselves.

I agree, the breakup of Russia would not be good

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, Seppius said:

I agree, the breakup of Russia would not be good

But it's something that the west needs to prepare for as it becomes more the possibility.

[Bkk Brian]

Go NATO!!

 

Nato members may send troops to Ukraine, warns former alliance chief

A group of Nato countries may be willing to put troops on the ground in Ukraine if member states including the US do not provide tangible security guarantees to Kyiv at the alliance’s summit in Vilnius, the former Nato secretary general Anders Rasmussen has said.

 

Rasmussen, who has been acting as official adviser to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, on Ukraine’s place in a future European security architecture, has been touring Europe and Washington to gauge the shifting mood before the critical summit starts on 11 July.

 

He also warned that even if a group of states did provide Ukraine with security guarantees, others would not allow the issue of Ukraine’s future Nato membership to be kept off the agenda at Vilnius.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/07/nato-members-may-send-troops-to-ukraine-warns-former-alliance-chief

[Jingthing]

Putin's dam war crime changed the game.

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Putin's dam war crime changed the game.

The latest and biggest war crime you meant to say, right?  The man and his visions are starting to destroy more and more lives, all for what? The last line is rhetorical by the way.

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The latest and biggest war crime you meant to say, right?  The man and his visions are starting to destroy more and more lives, all for what? The last line is rhetorical by the way.

Yes but I think this will change the psychology of the allies in a positive direction for the defense of Ukraine.

 

Another point about who did it that not many people are talking about.

The Inside Russia youtube channel is run by a self exiled Russian expert on energy, dams, etc.

He points out that even if the Russians didn't blow it up, simple NEGLECT of maintenance of the dam is virtually the same thing.

The dam was on Russian occupied land, they took over running the dam, they are responsible for neglect if that caused the tragedy.

But I still think they exploded it. 

[onthedarkside]

Off topic post removed

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes but I think this will change the psychology of the allies in a positive direction for the defense of Ukraine.

 

Another point about who did it that not many people are talking about.

The Inside Russia youtube channel is run by a self exiled Russian expert on energy, dams, etc.

He points out that even if the Russians didn't blow it up, simple NEGLECT of maintenance of the dam is virtually the same thing.

The dam was on Russian occupied land, they took over running the dam, they are responsible for neglect if that caused the tragedy.

But I still think they exploded it. 

Yes, it was Russia's responsibility as stated at yesterday's WH briefing.

'Russia has no business to be there in the first place, this dam was under Russia’s control, and they bear responsibility for the destruction caused by this war' Ms Jean-Pierre.

 

I agree, the over-filling of the dam which created maximum destruction and the timing, just before the  proposed counter-offensive. was too coincidental to be anyone else but Russia.

 

 

[rudi49jr]

Russia shot itself in the foot big-time by blowing up this dam. But hey, they’ve been doing that ever since they started this unholy war. They shot themselves in the foot by starting this war in the first place.