Caution from Immigration Police

[hereforgood]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:36 AM, BritTim said:

You handled the situation correctly. Even when you are quite sure the official is wrong, you do not unnecessarily make him lose face. He was not trying to be nasty. He was just an ignoramus.

Yes if you question him it would not end well despite his being wrong has been posted here before they can bend the rules to suit their needs at every office which has been seen here many many times. It won't change until they are all required to follow the official rules which we all know will never happen 

[mtls2005]

Has the OP mentioned their reporting office?

 

Personally I'd talk with other aliens in the same locale and see what they've been told.

 

 

Interesting that this matter did not come up during the initial granting of the extension of stay (under consideration?). Or if it will during the final granting? I might ask about the local requirements re: Sections 37 and 38 at that point.

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:28 AM, ubonjoe said:

It seems they did not read the regulation immigration issued in June of 2020 stating that if you are on a extension of stay you do not need to do TM30 reports unless you change addresses or enter with a new visa.

You can download the order in English or Thai at number 30 or 31 in this pinned topic.

https://aseannow.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

Good luck telling an immigration officer what the law is. I suppose that would apply anywhere, but at least in other countries they probably DO know the rules/don't make them up.

[Tropposurfer]

On 3/5/2022 at 11:52 AM, DrJack54 said:

That's not true.

You would only need to report if you change address or reenter with new visa or visa exempt..

This was also my understanding. I called my Thai Elite concierge officer and asked about this, they also told me your statement is correct DrJ. In the 3 years o have now been a retiree here I have not had any visitations for the gloriously uniformed IO folks lol ☺️ ... But rest assured, if and when they do arrive on my doorstep they will be greeted with all due deference and offered sweet eats n cool iced drinks hahaha ????????????????????????????

[jeffandgop]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:44 AM, soi3eddie said:

For the sake of 5 minutes on the computer I file my own TM30 each time I enter the contry. Print it out and put it in the passport. Never do it if having stayed at hotels etc. during period since last entry to the country. Not had any problems. Ask your immigration office to set you or your wife up on the TM30 system so that you can do it yourself. This wouldn't work if you rent your place though as landlord would need to file.

 

I have been doing my own TM30’s online as well. When I checked the database a month ago all of my records had disappeared. 

[Expat68]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:56 AM, NE1 said:

It is true at the office I use.

Same mine

[bamboozled]

Well this is timely...I just re-entered the country with a new Non-O. Guess I better see what's up with the TM30.

[Purdey]

There is a tendency among westerners to get upset when told something different from what they know law states. Thai law can be interpreted by the police rightly or wrongly and showing them the error of their ways will lead to trouble. 

In these situations, a mea culpa is best. Just say sorry you didn't know and thank them for informing you. Don't make a song and dance of it.

[MadMuhammad]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:36 AM, BritTim said:

You handled the situation correctly. Even when you are quite sure the official is wrong, you do not unnecessarily make him lose face. He was not trying to be nasty. He was just an ignoramus.

Story of my life ????

[DUNROAMIN]

somebody pissing in your pocket, not required in Thailand. On treturn from overseas your wife must submit paperwork on your return. She is classed as the landord of the house and you are a tenant. Another TIT BS rule.

[brianthainess]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:20 AM, Henryford said:

Surely the National Immigration rules apply to all offices.

Up to them init.

[brianthainess]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:20 AM, Henryford said:

Surely the National Immigration rules apply to all offices.

ALL and Every government authority office in the land run their own shows be it police or otherwise,  making up their own rules as they go along, mainly bcoz they don't know or understand the rules/law especially the older ones who don't bother to read or understand new rules.

One example being told you can't register a car using your yellow house book. 

[DrJack54]

45 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

Well this is timely...I just re-entered the country with a new Non-O. Guess I better see what's up with the TM30.

You entered with a new visa.

You need to file TM30.

[Hummin]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:52 AM, DrJack54 said:

That's not true.

You would only need to report if you change address or reenter with new visa or visa exempt..

My office said if I leave the country, they want me to report when back. 

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

My office said if I leave the country, they want me to report when back. 

Only if you return with new visa or visa exempt.

What individual offices do only concerns folk dealing with that office.

BTW always helps to state the office that you deal with.

Can be of assistance to others. 

[alex8912]

On 3/4/2022 at 7:36 PM, BritTim said:

You handled the situation correctly. Even when you are quite sure the official is wrong, you do not unnecessarily make him lose face. He was not trying to be nasty. He was just an ignoramus.

You can politely teach him. No face lost. 

[Toolong]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:28 AM, ubonjoe said:

It seems they did not read the regulation immigration issued in June of 2020 stating that if you are on a extension of stay you do not need to do TM30 reports unless you change addresses or enter with a new visa.

You can download the order in English or Thai at number 30 or 31 in this pinned topic.

https://aseannow.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

ubonjoe,

 

It was very helpful of you to post the link to the information. 

However, I had trouble finding the exact clause that refers to foreigners on yearly extensions not needing to notify immigration (tm30) if they stay at a hotel in Thailand. 

I have difficulties understanding documents like this in Thailand in their 'legalese' language!

 

I would really appreciate if you, or anyone else, could refer me to that relevant section so I can print it off and highlight it for possible use in the future.

 

Thanks.

[MyFriend You]

On 3/4/2022 at 7:30 PM, big dendrobenaes said:

OVER THE YEARS i have been many foreign countries from Thailand......never ONCE told them when i came back.......like many others i suppose !!!!

I always did, just to tie up any loose ends that may occur...............an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure(?).   You know Thai Officials, they just love, and I mean love, using their "I am Important Stamp" o a piece of paper, or in your passport.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by TunnelRat69

[scorecard]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:20 AM, Henryford said:

Surely the National Immigration rules apply to all offices.

Sounds good, but the reality is it's totally normal and acepted by Thai officials in every subject area that local officials can and do make their own interpretations. Land office interpreations are the same, differs from office to office. 

 

Getting solid interpreation of laws governing banking is the same, there are laws but pretty much every bank / branch manager has own interpreatation and the Bank Head Office and the bank of Thailand doesn't intervene. 

 

And this is not going to change anytime soon.

[ubonjoe]

34 minutes ago, Toolong said:

However, I had trouble finding the exact clause that refers to foreigners on yearly extensions not needing to notify immigration (tm30) if they stay at a hotel in Thailand. 

It is in 2.2 of the regulation.

[richard_smith237]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:22 AM, Shannoblic said:

There was no problem - just a cautionary comment for the future.  I may have got it all wrong in my understanding but I am not going to argue with Immigration Police.

A couple of my friends are quite senior in Immigration offices around the country (as in Chief of Immigration xxx province etc). 

 

They do no know their own Immigration Regulations, most of those junior to them do not know their own Immigration regulations.

 

It is the non-commissioned female officers who run the show, these ladies do know what the regulations are, they are the ones at the ‘coal face’ doing the day to day stuff, the extensions etc.

 

Any Immigration Policeman who turns up at someones house is a lowly lackey, they are not going to be aware of any updates, changes or alterations of any regulations made over the past few years. 

 

And..... there is nothing wrong with arguing with them [Immigration Police] if you are sure you are correct you can handle their misunderstanding politely. I don’t know why so many people are so fearful of the police here, they’re just people, as such they get things wrong. It's ok to discuss that with them.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Sounds good, but the reality is it's totally normal and acepted by Thai officials in every subject area that local officials can and do make their own interpretations. Land office interpreations are the same, differs from office to office. 

 

Getting solid interpreation of laws governing banking is the same, there are laws but pretty much every bank / branch manager has own interpreatation and the Bank Head Office and the bank of Thailand doesn't intervene. 

 

And this is not going to change anytime soon.

In the past I've made a branch manager call up head office because of his ‘flawed interpretation of the rules’....  

The result favoured my request and the branch manager was ‘re-educated’.... these issues can be resolved without a loss of face but doing so is the trickiest part of the situation especially if dealing with an ego. 

[Toolong]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is in 2.2 of the regulation.

Thanks very much, ubonjoe. Appreciate it.????

[bamboozled]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You entered with a new visa.

You need to file TM30.

Strangely, I did all that was required to get the visa and thus it was issued. How in the heck, if not for coming on here, would I know I need a new TM30? I passed through immigration, too, and got my stamp. Nobody told me about the TM30. Lunacy.

 

Dr. Jack, can you point me to the TM30 online form that must be kicking around somewhere? Or I suppose I can dig it out on the immigration website. Thank you!

[berrec]

C'mon man!

 

You know the thing, by now, if you lived in Thailand for more than a year.

 

All Thai government regulations and rules are really only guidelines.

 

Thais here just interpret them to their opinion. 

 

Examples, road rules and immigration  5555

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

In the past I've made a branch manager call up head office because of his ‘flawed interpretation of the rules’....  

The result favoured my request and the branch manager was ‘re-educated’.... these issues can be resolved without a loss of face but doing so is the trickiest part of the situation especially if dealing with an ego. 

You mention 'branch manager', for the sake of this discussion I will assume you mean bank branch manager, but correct me if I am wrong.

 

I share one example; farang and his Thai wife went to local bank branch (bigger branch) for advice how to jointly lodge (bank) their funds for the best security, especially if the farang was the first to pass away.

 

Pompous over confident branch manager responded 'easy, just give all your money to me, and when you die I promise I'll give it back to your wife'.

 

Requests by the farang to discuss further (e.g. '... but what about if you (branch manager) get killed in an accident or pass away from sudden illness tomorrow, who will give the money to my wife?'

 

Response from the bank manager was to just change the subject again and agiain, in fact no answer.

 

Farang called the bank HO in Bkk, eventually spoke to a snr. manager and asked 'if this appropriate /  does the bank approve of branch managers doing things like this"?

 

Snr. HO mngr responded '... but you don't understand, your local branch manager is just trying to be kind and help you.'

 

Farang attempted to further explain his concerns, snr. HO mngr just brushed the subject aside and politly/quickly ended the call.

 

Farnag sent an e.mail to the bank HO quoting all of the above. No reply.

 

Farang approached a couple more banks looking for a better/secure answer/option to lodge his/his partnes funds and with an appropriate and written/signed policy. They did eventually find a bank with written/signed policies which they accepted and not involving branch managers personally holding customers funds or anything inappropriate. 

 

           (No I'm not going to reveal the names of the banks involved above.)

[richard_smith237]

57 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

Strangely, I did all that was required to get the visa and thus it was issued. How in the heck, if not for coming on here, would I know I need a new TM30? I passed through immigration, too, and got my stamp. Nobody told me about the TM30. Lunacy.

 

Dr. Jack, can you point me to the TM30 online form that must be kicking around somewhere? Or I suppose I can dig it out on the immigration website. Thank you!

Do not attempt to submit the TM30 using your computer / Immigration web page - it doesn’t work and you’ll end up in a circular error. 

 

Do use the Immigration App ‘Section 38’....

 

Section 38 is only available on the Thai Appstore (Apple) - a genius move by people who have failed to recognise that non-Thai’s will generally use their home country App store location. 

 

Here is the App on google play. 

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=th.go.immigration.section38&hl=en&gl=US

 

 

[Scott Tracy]

Yep, just so. All very well saying the I O got it wrong, but I for one would not be so presumptuous as to push the point the next time I am needing to extend..

[NoshowJones]

I would have argued, the IO was wrong.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, bamboozled said:

Dr. Jack, can you point me to the TM30 online form that must be kicking around somewhere?

Don't understand your reference to a "TM30 online form". PDF hard copy version of this particular form downloadable from ubonjoe's posting of 13 May 2017 in the "Immigration Templates" pinned thread.