Thailand does the math: Two are dying per hour on the Thai roads

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

Utter dross.

QED - to be expected.

[Molly Malone]

fix the road surfaces, for motorbikes it is deadly! Red buses and work trucks exhausts are diabolically BAD! In most countries people have to study the road rules for a week or more to pass the test. MY dog can do the test here! Thais think putting a blinker on means they can CUT IN FRONT of anyone no matter what the speed, every Thai has the right of way = WRONG!

[natway09]

The quality of roads have improved amazingly over the last 30 years & pickups  (in particular the cheap most common ) are more powerful & can drive at 160 kmh but cannot stop. 

 The manufacturer has payed no interest in spending an extra 9% to make the vehicle safer,  for example putting disc brakes on the rear would be a start.

Coupled with uneducated drivers who have no understanding of the impact devastation at high speeds along with a police force that have always been indolent & just have not moved with the times eg: without mufti cops on the road travelling with the traffic they will never catch the offenders that endanger themselves & me.

Motorbikes ?    I do not dare to even approach the subject

[TropicalGuy]

2 hours ago, Thunglom said:

The official figures, reported by Nation Thailand, released Jan 2022 by the Department of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation says there were 2,707 road traffic accidents reported between December 29 and January 4 , with 2,672 people injured and 333 killed. = average of 387 per day

 

UK has some of the safest roads in the world, with only a handful of countries ranked above Britain in terms of road user safety? And yet despite this, accidents are still incredibly common, with 122,635 recorded in 2018 – that’s around 336 a day.

 

So why is the death rate so different?

 

 Very Few Motorbikes Involved, Far Lower Collision Speeds & Far Higher Seat Belt Usage. Possibly Sweden & Netherlands ranked ahead of UK but with much smaller populations & traffic volumes.

[impulse]

11 hours ago, biggles45 said:

This is not news, just a rehash of an ongoing problem. As long as you have a police force that is very lazy and corrupt with no desire to actually improve the road toll situation, nothing is ever going to change

What surprises me is that they haven't figured out that cops with radar and a chase car can be a cash cow. 

 

Enforcement doesn't cost money, it generates a profit.  In addition to saving lives.

[Thunglom]

41 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

 Very Few Motorbikes Involved, Far Lower Collision Speeds & Far Higher Seat Belt Usage. Possibly Sweden & Netherlands ranked ahead of UK but with much smaller populations & traffic volumes.

you are just beginning to sort out some issues. As an advanced driver I'm surprised you aren't familiar with "Road craft" which these days exposes te Safe System along with Dept of Transport etc.

 

Roads need to be designed to control traffic.

Human error is a constant - mistakes will inevitably happen - so a lot of it is what happens when the mistake is made.

For instance Thai highways often have trees etc  growing in the  median strip or central reservation, The sides of roads are littered with things that will cause unnecessary damage. On safe roads Armco and even concrete barriers are used - but inThailand I suspect in theses where there are, they aren't even the right height.

You might also look abroad lighting - I've never seen anything like it - clearly no thought given to how it affects driving

..and of course Thailand has no centralised or standardised emergency services - right from first responder to A&E.

 

they also don't calibrate RTIs so we never learn from what happened.

 

You mention motorcycles and these come undertone category of "vulnerable" road users, As the Safe system says - The key objective for those managing the roads is that, as road users will continue to make mistakes, when crashes do occur, high severity outcomes such as serious injuries and death do not. Therefore, roads need to be equipped with a ‘forgiving’ infrastructure, taking into account the vulnerability of human beings. 

in the 19990s, I hd the [privilege of working for the road traffic engineers department for the council of a large city. I took part in surveying and designing rod systems - from roundabouts to bollards to curve came and radii - I can tell you that Thailand in no way comes anywhere near to the standards in Europe.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Thunglom

[TropicalGuy]

“I'm saying that the SYSTEMS in Europe prevent idiot drivers from doing want they want. InThailand no such system exists.”

 

Yes but those SYSTEMS of Training, Testing, Performance & Enforcement cannot exist or work without the correct Modern CULTURE of Education, Safety, Prevention, Quality & Compliance, accepted by 99% population, as in EU/ UK.

 

This Modern Culture is present in Thailand ONLY where International Standards are Mandatory.
In Medicine & Flying & Export for example. 2-3% population involved. 

All Very Highly Educated.

 

Since Road Safety is entirely Domestic here and involves nearly the entire adult / teenage population, all steeped in Stagnant Thai Culture, with little of the above required modern Culture, and largely Poorly Educated, No Modern  System of Preventative Road Safety can ever be properly adopted here.
 

Carnage Continues Unfortunately.
 

 

[TropicalGuy]

3 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

you are just beginning to sort out some issues.

Roads need to be designed to control traffic.

Human error is a constant - mistakes will inevitably happen - so a lot of it is what happens when the mistake is made.

For instance Thai highways often have trees etc  growing in the  median strip or central reservation, The sides of roads are littered with things that will cause unnecessary damage.

..and of course Thailand has no centralised or standardised emergency services - right from first responder to A&E.

 

they also don't calibrate RTIs so we never learn from what happened.

 

You mention motorcycles and these come undertone category of "vulnerable" road users, As the Safe system says - The key objective for those managing the roads is that, as road users will continue to make mistakes, when crashes do occur, high severity outcomes such as serious injuries and death do not. Therefore, roads need to be equipped with a ‘forgiving’ infrastructure, taking into account the vulnerability of human beings 

Yes. Road Traffic Design is Often Poor.The Deadly U- Turns ……Lack of Functional Traffic Circles and the Training to use them. 
 

Yes. Roadside Dangers: Gravel Sand Garbage & Thrown Nails. A single moments inattention on a sharp bend at night and suddenly I’m in a two wheel m/ bike skid with no traction on Gravel & Sand.
Steered into skid to slow the bike without braking and jumped off into a parachute landing / roll … minor cuts and bruises…. tested out the Accident Insurance ! 

[TropicalGuy]

40 minutes ago, impulse said:

What surprises me is that they haven't figured out that cops with radar and a chase car can be a cash cow. 

 

Enforcement doesn't cost money, it generates a profit.  In addition to saving lives.

Doesn’t Address Root Causes.

Continues Policing Profiteering Culture. Not Helpful Really. 

Enforcement Ineffective Here as “Laws” subject to Culture Override.

[Thunglom]

23 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Yes. Road Traffic Design is Often Poor.The Deadly U- Turns ……Lack of Functional Traffic Circles and the Training to use them. 
 

Yes. Roadside Dangers: Gravel Sand Garbage & Thrown Nails. A single moments inattention on a sharp bend at night and suddenly I’m in a two wheel m/ bike skid with no traction on Gravel & Sand.
Steered into skid to slow the bike without braking and jumped off into a parachute landing / roll … minor cuts and bruises…. tested out the Accident Insurance ! 

 

17 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Doesn’t Address Root Causes.

Continues Policing Profiteering Culture. Not Helpful Really. 

Enforcement Ineffective Here as “Laws” subject to Culture Override.

They ARE the root causes - you still don't understand that it is a MANAGEMENT system - Road safety is a public health issue -you even know that you are managed.

You are ignoring EVERY single road safety organisation in the world from WHO to ThailandLook at the 5 Es = do I need to explain them?

 

these are just some of the organisations who promote the Safe System that you have never heard of  (BTW - Does that mean anything you have never heard of doesn't exist?)

 

These are just some of the many organisations and sources that successive Thai governments and the general public have ignored….

Some of the organizations include…

The World Health Organization (WHO)  - https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7-19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2

Save the children Thailand - https://thailand.savethechildren.net/sites/thailand.savethechildren.net/files/library/Save%20the%20Children’s%20Work%20in%20Road%20Safety%20-%20The%207%25%20Project_1.pdf

ThaiRoads Foundation - http://www.thairoads.org/en/

International Road Assessment Program (iRAP) and Chulalongkorn University - https://irap.org/2018/11/new-thai-centre-of-excellence-chulalongkorn-university/

The Embassy of Sweden is coordinating a group called “the Embassy Friends of Road Safety (EFRS) - https://scandasia.com/tag/the-embassy-friends-of-road-safety-efrs/

Thailand Road Safety Observatory, TRSO -=http://www.atransociety.com/resources/pdf/pdfResearch2013-2018/2014/Project2014-006(Dr.Paramet).pdf

Arrive Alive - Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Road Safety Strategy and Action Plan (2005–2010) - https://www.adb.org/publications/arrive-alive-asean-regional-road-safety-and-action-plan-2005-2010

Australian road safety consultancy Safe System Solutions 

https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/1686/australian-consultancy-working-on-road-safety-in-thailand

 

ASEAN TRANSPORT STRATEGIC PLAN 2016-2025 - https://www.itf-oecd.org/asean-transport-strategic-plan-2016-2025-and-progress-road-safety-initiatives

EU/ASEAN - https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/eu-and-asean-exchange-knowledge-and-best-practices-road-safety_en

Australia, Safe System Solutions  - https://www.austrade.gov.au/news/success-stories/australian-consultancy-helps-improve-road-safety-in-thailand

Bloomberg Philanthropies Initiative for Global Road Safety - https://www.bloomberg.org/public-health/improving-road-safety/

Office of Transport & Traffic Policy & Planning(OTP), Ministry of Transport - https://www.mot.go.th/about.html?dsfm_lang=EN&id=12

Thai RSC. - Accident road safety Data for Thailand - http://www.thairsc.com/eng/

World Bank - https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2019/03/26/working-towards-improving-road-safety-and-saving-lives-in-thailand

Edited March 26, 2022 by Thunglom

[impulse]

53 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Doesn’t Address Root Causes.

Continues Policing Profiteering Culture. Not Helpful Really. 

Enforcement Ineffective Here as “Laws” subject to Culture Override.

I'd agree with that except for all the foreigners I've seen going native and driving like they'd never drive back home.  They obviously know better, so it's not a training issue.

 

People act in a way that maximizes perceived benefits to them.  Basic human nature. 

 

Back home, the benefits of getting there quicker are outweighed by the risk of a big fine, points on your license and higher insurance rates.  Sadly, the only real risk in Thailand is getting into a wreck, and that's a low probability risk (albeit tragic result), as opposed to the much higher risk of getting caught by a diligent cop on an enforcement crusade.

 

I was a menace when I first got my license, in spite of great training.  But I was so afraid of the fuzz, I practiced driving to avoid getting tickets.  Which, not coincidentally, is great practice for avoiding wrecks.  It wasn't the great training I got that forced me to the habit of driving safely, it was the enforcement.

Culture override is always an issue.  But only for the 1%.  The other 99%, not so much.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by impulse

[TropicalGuy]

59 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

 

They ARE the root causes - you still don't understand that it is a MANAGEMENT system - Road safety is a public health issue -you even know that you are managed.

You are ignoring EVERY single road safety organisation in the world from WHO to ThailandLook at the 5 Es = do I need to explain them?

 

these are just some of the organisations who promote the Safe System that you have never heard of  (BTW - Does that mean anything you have never heard of doesn't exist?)

 

These are just some of the many organisations and sources that successive Thai governments and the general public have ignored….

Some of the organizations include…

The World Health Organization (WHO)  - https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7-19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2

Save the children Thailand - https://thailand.savethechildren.net/sites/thailand.savethechildren.net/files/library/Save%20the%20Children’s%20Work%20in%20Road%20Safety%20-%20The%207%25%20Project_1.pdf

ThaiRoads Foundation - http://www.thairoads.org/en/

International Road Assessment Program (iRAP) and Chulalongkorn University - https://irap.org/2018/11/new-thai-centre-of-excellence-chulalongkorn-university/

The Embassy of Sweden is coordinating a group called “the Embassy Friends of Road Safety (EFRS) - https://scandasia.com/tag/the-embassy-friends-of-road-safety-efrs/

Thailand Road Safety Observatory, TRSO -=http://www.atransociety.com/resources/pdf/pdfResearch2013-2018/2014/Project2014-006(Dr.Paramet).pdf

Arrive Alive - Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Road Safety Strategy and Action Plan (2005–2010) - https://www.adb.org/publications/arrive-alive-asean-regional-road-safety-and-action-plan-2005-2010

Australian road safety consultancy Safe System Solutions 

https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/1686/australian-consultancy-working-on-road-safety-in-thailand

 

ASEAN TRANSPORT STRATEGIC PLAN 2016-2025 - https://www.itf-oecd.org/asean-transport-strategic-plan-2016-2025-and-progress-road-safety-initiatives

EU/ASEAN - https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/eu-and-asean-exchange-knowledge-and-best-practices-road-safety_en

Australia, Safe System Solutions  - https://www.austrade.gov.au/news/success-stories/australian-consultancy-helps-improve-road-safety-in-thailand

Bloomberg Philanthropies Initiative for Global Road Safety - https://www.bloomberg.org/public-health/improving-road-safety/

Office of Transport & Traffic Policy & Planning(OTP), Ministry of Transport - https://www.mot.go.th/about.html?dsfm_lang=EN&id=12

Thai RSC. - Accident road safety Data for Thailand - http://www.thairsc.com/eng/

World Bank - https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2019/03/26/working-towards-improving-road-safety-and-saving-lives-in-thailand

You’re just not getting it. No Modern Culture = No Modern Road Safety System = Thailand. Management & Statistics & Safety & Value of Life is Simply Not Important Here. 
 

 

[Thunglom]

41 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

You’re just not getting it. No Modern Culture = No Modern Road Safety System = Thailand. Management & Statistics & Safety & Value of Life is Simply Not Important Here. 
 

 

Like talking to a 10 year old

[impulse]

1 hour ago, TropicalGuy said:

You’re just not getting it. No Modern Culture = No Modern Road Safety System = Thailand. Management & Statistics & Safety & Value of Life is Simply Not Important Here. 

The problem with that take is that the only solution for the next century is to throw up your hands and surrender.  I'd love to see Thailand spend a few million baht to send some traffic cops to, for example, California to ride around with CHP cops or Texas DPS troopers.  Kind of a "train the trainer" program.   A few months of rigorous ticket writing could easily pay out the trip.

 

But of course, that's just a boondoggle unless they provide radar and chase cars.

 

Heck, even some dubbed episodes of CHiPs would be educational.

Edited March 26, 2022 by impulse

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

Like talking to a 10 year old

More like arguing with an old school bwana.

 

 

[RJRS1301]

20 hours ago, DezLez said:

I believe that the figures for deaths resulting from road accidents in Thailand are only of those pronounced dead at the scene and do not include those who die later as a result of their injuries which means the actual fatality figures are even higher/worse!

It does not include the injuries which may have occurred to those who survived. 

The injuries which may never full resolve, and often leave people with life long physical and cognitive disabilities, reliant on others for  support and care, also needing ongoing medical care, Families are often left to carry this burden without financial or physical supports. 

[Ralf001]

10 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

It does not include the injuries which may have occurred to those who survived. 

The injuries which may never full resolve, and often leave people with life long physical and cognitive disabilities, reliant on others for  support and care, also needing ongoing medical care, Families are often left to carry this burden without financial or physical supports. 

Of course it does not include those that are injured..... because they are not dead.

[Benmart]

An apathetic and impotent goverment, coupled with a lack of mobile traffic police and an under-educated public = Carnage.

[Kenneth White]

17 hours ago, khunpa said:

It’s all about “Common sense”…

 

“Common sense” would mean police doing their job to reduce the accidents.

 

“Common sense” would require proper training before receiving a drivers license.

 

“Common sense” would remind drivers to not drive too fast and too close to other.

 

”Common sense” would mean no need for lucky amulets and car-blessings.

 

With “Common sense” drivers would blame themselves and not the brakes, when accidents happen.

 

There is no “common sense” here and there will never be.

 

 

I am retired and living here in Thailand for ten years. I agree there is no common sense here even my Thai wife has non, (I hope she doesn't read this) I also find that most Thai people are inconsiderate. Does all this lead to traffic accidents and fatalities? I think it does. The police need to step it up and patrol the roads. Check point are only good for document verification. Has anyone heard this before "I am drownings here and you are describing the water"? Write some good common sense traffic laws, enforce the laws, ad more police to patrol the roads, write some tickets with some heavy fines to found the police departments.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Kenneth White

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, Kenneth White said:

I agree there is no common sense here even my Thai wife has non (sic)

Brave man indeed......well impressed.

[wombat]

21 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

And those numbers are from 2020. The lockdown/shutdown year. 49/day is much below previous avarage of 60 to 70/day.

Curious asks...

How do they compare to deaths from covid?

Preferably those that had no other underlying cause?

 

.

[hotchilli]

15 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Seriously? they are a group of police given a secondhand hHonda - they aren't trained and there is no incident investigation squad - there is no system for enforcing road rules and no system in thecoursts for dealing with it - you can write what you like on car it doesn't make it real.

It's Thailands system or lack of... quit moaning or move to a safer country.

[farangroby]

22 hours ago, webfact said:

It was observed in the report that encouraging Thais to wear face masks has been easy - getting them to wear helmets is quite another matter. 

500 baht fines for not wearing a helmet are not a big incentive, but neither is going more than two people on a motorcycle, driving without a license, drunk, without lights, in the wrong direction, not respecting the red light of traffic lights, etc. .. risking a few pennies in fines, it will help Thailand reduce accident deaths

[Chongalulu]

19 hours ago, 2long said:

After more than 22 years here, I have 'got used to' quite a lot, including the weather, language, food, culture etc, but one thing I will never ever adapt to or accept is the dangerous driving, or even the selfish parking.

For a nation of polite, friendly people who have the phrase 'greng jai' which doesn't even directly translate in English, it never ceases to amaze me how bad most of them are.

It’s often said the true nature of one’s character is when your actions are anonymous or you are insulated from them, as when surrounded by cocoon of your vehicle…

[Ralf001]

11 minutes ago, farangroby said:

500 baht fines for not wearing a helmet are not a big incentive, but neither is going more than two people on a motorcycle, driving without a license, drunk, without lights, in the wrong direction, not respecting the red light of traffic lights, etc. .. risking a few pennies in fines, it will help Thailand reduce accident deaths

500b is more than what many earn in a day, you would think thats a big incentive to wear a helmet.

[Chongalulu]

Look on the bright side ( "Thailand does the math") - at least the country has taken a baby step from its appalling numeracy credentials..

[KhunBENQ]

31 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

It’s often said the true nature of one’s character is when your actions are anonymous or you are insulated from them, as when surrounded by cocoon of your vehicle…

Why the dark tinted car windows?

It's not primarily about the sun/heat.

[brianthainess]

18 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Probably why a Thai driving licence is worth Jack S outside Thailand

Not True.

[VocalNeal]

15 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Sorry? What do you men?

 

[VocalNeal]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

But of course, that's just a boondoggle unless they provide radar and chase cars.

You think they don't have radar/laser? If so you must only drive within 20 kms of Pattaya.

Police are important people they don't run around chasing people. They wait for the people to come to them.

Edited March 27, 2022 by VocalNeal