Don't mention the war?

[tgw]

46 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Yes, its the right of any and all countries to determine their own destiny. Ukraine didn't want to become another Belarus but I suspect they knew that Russia would not accept their total independence - hence their wish to join NATO.

 

I do not believe for one minute, Putin's assertions that Ukraine's membership of NATO would create a threat to Russia - that's just a smokescreen to cover his real intentions.

 

I doesn't stack up - he already has 2 NATO members on his border and taking Ukraine would add more to that.

 

NATO is not an aggressor, its aim is defence and protection organisation that was formed in response to the threat from the former Soviet Union.

the situation is really simple: if the Baltic States, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria had not joined NATO, all these states would probably be in the same situation as Ukraine is now or would be soon.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Damn....if only someone like you was around in 1939 the world would be in such a better place....mein herr.

 

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/great-debate

[Berkshire]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The problem is that if Germany is hostage to Russian energy, we haven't seen anything compared to the world's reliance on Chinese goods.

China is a bit more pragmatic.  But they're also very good at the long game.  Look at Hong Kong.  They won't invade Taiwan.  Especially now.  In a way, Russia has provided a blue print as to what NOT to do.

[Mac Mickmanus]

26 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I think you know very well that its far bigger than one woman being raped.  In almost all areas of Ukraine that were held by Russia for a few weeks - there is evidence of mass rape and murder.  Daily I hear testimony of victims - just yesterday the testimony of a young woman raped by Russian soldiers.  A Russian tank arrived at their home, Russian soldiers shot her husband and then raped her - threatening they would kill her 5 year old son if she resisted.  She escaped after being raped but the Russians burned her house down as they left.

 

These reports are widespread - mass graves are being found in all areas previously occupied by the Russians.  How should we proceed now?  I think its obvious what we should do, the question is, do we have the guts to do it?

 

As for allegations of Ukranian war crimes - they should also be investigated and if found to be true - prosecutions should take place.  The difference being that the Ukranian government has already said it is investigating the claims whereas the Russians deny everything.

 

But they have always denied everything - from using a chemical weapon in the UK to their actions in Ukraine, Jeez, if it wasn't for satellite imagery they'd probably deny they even have any forces in Ukraine - its like listening to kids lies, 'the dog ate my homework' style.  According to Russia - anything that accuses them of wrong doing is pure western propaganda.

OK, how about Boris Johnson .

Is he always honest and always tells the truth and would never say anything untrue ?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, how about Boris Johnson .

Is he always honest and always tells the truth and would never say anything untrue ?

When he lies the MSM are all over it.

[KhaoYai]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, how about Boris Johnson .

Is he always honest and always tells the truth and would never say anything untrue ?

Eh?  Are you seriously comparing the potential lies of a Prime Minister with lies that concern murder, rape and genocide?

 

Do you have shares in Gazprom or something?

Edited April 12, 2022 by KhaoYai

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Eh?  Are you seriously comparing the potential lies of a Prime Minister with lies that concern murder, rape and genocide?

 

Do you have shares in Gazprom or something?

For the last five years I have been hearing that Boris johnson is a habitual pathological liar and everything he says is a lie .

   Has that now changed ?

Should I now believe everything he says ?

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

For the last five years I have been hearing that Boris johnson is a habitual pathological liar and everything he says is a lie .

   Has that now changed ?

Should I now believe everything he says ?

Is there some comparison to be drawn between Boris and Vladdy here?

[Berkshire]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

For the last five years I have been hearing that Boris johnson is a habitual pathological liar and everything he says is a lie .

   Has that now changed ?

Should I now believe everything he says ?

You may have Boris Johnson mixed up with Donald Trump. 

[coolcarer]

27 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

For the last five years I have been hearing that Boris johnson is a habitual pathological liar and everything he says is a lie .

   Has that now changed ?

Should I now believe everything he says ?

Believe what you want, here’s what I believe, you’re a shameful apologist for the killings and rape of innocent civilians and children in Ukraine.  

[coolcarer]

3 hours ago, Saanim said:

What's so difficult to understand why he remained seated? Russia denies the accusations, they presented their findings about that incident, that however, the others are not willing to listen to.

 

As of OSCE monitoring Ukraine:

The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM) was deployed on 21 March 2014, following a request to the OSCE by Ukraine’s government and a consensus decision by all 57 OSCE participating States. The SMM is an unarmed, civilian mission, present on the ground 24/7 in all regions of Ukraine. Its main tasks are to observe and report in an impartial and objective way on the situation in Ukraine; and to facilitate dialogue among all parties to the crisis. 

https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine

 

Why the SMM were deployed - just before the war started? I have placed here a link to their findings from the days before they were ordered out, I do not think that it can be found...

You’re opening paragraph says it all. No reasoned debate possible with you much like the Russian OSCE ambassador who sat while there was a minutes silence for the dead in Bucha. You deserve nothing less than the same treatment given to him by all the other OSCE ambassadors. An empty room so you can carry on the denials of these unprecedented war crimes despite all evidence presented.

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Believe what you want, here’s what I believe, you’re a shameful apologist for the killings and rape of innocent civilians and children in Ukraine.  

Avoid the question and respond with mindless abuse .

Although, I can understand that , as it was a rather difficult question to answer 

[Mac Mickmanus]

35 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

You may have Boris Johnson mixed up with Donald Trump. 

Oh I see, it was actually Donald Trump was the pathologic liar .

Right, so what about Boris johnson, is he a honest guy who doesn't tell lies ?

[Berkshire]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Oh I see, it was actually Donald Trump was the pathologic liar .

Right, so what about Boris johnson, is he a honest guy who doesn't tell lies ?

I'm an American.  I know about Trump.  Not so much about Boris. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, Berkshire said:

I'm an American.  I know about Trump.  Not so much about Boris. 

Boris  was also a non stop habitual pathological liar who lied about everything , up until a few months ago .

   Since Russia invaded Ukraine, Boris is now a honest chap who always tells the truth and wouldn't lie or be dishonest about anything 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Boris  was also a non stop habitual pathological liar who lied about everything , up until a few months ago .

   Since Russia invaded Ukraine, Boris is now a honest chap who always tells the truth and wouldn't lie or be dishonest about anything 

Boris is a non stop habitual pathological liar who lies about everything , up until a few months ago .

 

[coolcarer]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Avoid the question and respond with mindless abuse .

Although, I can understand that , as it was a rather difficult question to answer 

Couldn’t care less about your irrelevant question on Boris it has nothing to do with the war crimes going on now and the rest of my post I indorse wholeheartedly.

[tgw]

4 hours ago, Saanim said:

What's so difficult to understand why he remained seated? Russia denies the accusations, they presented their findings about that incident, that however, the others are not willing to listen to.

Erm ... "findings" is a very very very generous term.

 

try "blatant lies" instead ?

[Fat is a type of crazy]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Oh I see, it was actually Donald Trump was the pathologic liar .

Right, so what about Boris johnson, is he a honest guy who doesn't tell lies ?

So what your doing there is what autocratic politicians, or wannabe autocratic politicians do, and that's to say they are all bad, everything's bad, so no one can judge anyone. 

 

I wish you and other posters, instead of posting hypotheticals or comparisons, would just straight out say what they think of Russia and if they care to justify Russians action than spell it out. Justify the pressing need for the invasion. Then justify their actions during the invasion.  Justify why the world should watch on and let it happen. Speak your mind. 

[KhaoYai]

51 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

For the last five years I have been hearing that Boris johnson is a habitual pathological liar and everything he says is a lie .

   Has that now changed ?

Should I now believe everything he says ?

That is not what is being discussed here.  Johnson's lies or truths are miniscule when compared to what Russia is doing in Ukraine.  If you are trying that well practised Trump/Johnson thing - deflection, its not working, your comparisons are not vaild by a long chalk.

[KhaoYai]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Boris  was also a non stop habitual pathological liar who lied about everything , up until a few months ago .

   Since Russia invaded Ukraine, Boris is now a honest chap who always tells the truth and wouldn't lie or be dishonest about anything 

Will you please stay on topic? This discussion is nothing to do with Boris Johnson!

 

(I am by the way, one of Johnson's biggest critics).

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Boris is a non stop habitual pathological liar who lies about everything , up until a few months ago .

 

OK, So we shouldn't believe what he says about Russia ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Will you please stay on topic? This discussion is nothing to do with Boris Johnson!

 

(I am by the way, one of Johnson's biggest critics).

The conversation mentioned whether the U.K should send its army to join in the war in Ukraine , and as Boris Johnson will be the person making that decision , he is very much on topic .

[KhaoYai]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The conversation mentioned whether the U.K should send its army to join in the war in Ukraine , and as Boris Johnson will be the person making that decision , he is very much on topic .

In that context maybe but its nothing to do with any lies he may or may not have told - unless they are about the conflict in Ukraine.

 

One again I will take this opportunity to remind you that you have still not acknowleged that you accused me of not caring about other conflicts - in particular, Myanmar.

 

You did that without any evidence at all and as it happens, are completely wrong.

[Will B Good]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, So we shouldn't believe what he says about Russia ?

No......but I also find it hard believe that multiple news outlets from a variety of countries, employing professional journalists (putting their lives at serious risk) have all colluded to lie about Russia.........kapish?

Edited April 12, 2022 by Will B Good

[coolcarer]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The conversation mentioned whether the U.K should send its army to join in the war in Ukraine , and as Boris Johnson will be the person making that decision , he is very much on topic .

There’s me thinking you started off with this post.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, how about Boris Johnson .

Is he always honest and always tells the truth and would never say anything untrue ?

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

In that context maybe but its nothing to do with any lies he may or may not have told - unless they are about the conflict in Ukraine.

 

One again I will take this opportunity to remind you that you have still not acknowleged that you accused me of not caring about other conflicts - in particular, Myanmar.

 

You did that without any evidence at all and as it happens, are completely wrong.

That is because its off topic !!!!!!!!!

The conflict in Myanmar is off topic and we were asked not to talk about that topic.

So, Do keep on topic and stop mentioning the war in Myanmar .

I haven't replied because  I dont want to go off topic .  

Start a new thread if you want to talk about the war in Myanmar 

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Atrocities happen regularly the World over , its not down to us to tell everyone else how they should behave .

  We need to keep out of wars, wars which dont involve us , not our business 

I'm trying to understand you but its difficult - although you are far from alone on those thoughts.

 

So can I just ask you...........its normally governments and/or political/religious groups that start wars in the main. Civillians are usually totally innocent yet they are almost always the victims.  Is your thinking that that is their problem and nobody should help them?

 

You, I guess are one of those that would see a guy getting kicked to death on the street and walk on by - would I be right?

 

I am fully aware that there are many other conflicts that nobody has done anything about for whatever reason - that doesn't make it right. Neither are we discussing those conflicts here.

 

Its about time the UN or some other body set about stopping ALL conflicts, there is no justification for any of them.  It is perfectly possible for ALL people to live together if they'd only stop their selfishness, greed and trying to impose their will on others.  In the meantime its my belief that the innocent must be offered protection.

 

The UN, particularly the Security Council do very little other than talk, pass pointless resolutions and cost the tax payers of member countries an absolute fortune.  Zelensky was totally correct about the UN needing reform.  If the UN had any serious clout, we wouldn't be having this discussion - total waste of space.

Edited April 12, 2022 by KhaoYai

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

The problem is that if Germany is hostage to Russian energy, we haven't seen anything compared to the world's reliance on Chinese goods.

No-one needs to rely on Chinese goods if they don't want to. All any country has to do is fire the venal politicians who went offshore to fill their pockets, and bring manufacturing back home.

Google Andrew Robb, he's an ideal example.

I suspect the Germans are scrambling to develop new suppliers, wouldn't you?

[KhaoYai]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That is because its off topic !!!!!!!

Oh, its off topic for you to accuse me of something without a shred of evidence so you don't have to accept you were wrong to do so? Yet you can write a post stating its 'off topic' ????????????????.

 

Ever so slightly selective with your replies eh?