Floor tiles suddenly lifting with a bang

[poppysdad]

About 30 minutes ago sitting under our ceiling fan going at full throttle to try to keep cool we heard  a succession of small bangs. We immediately thought the fan elements were overheating and switched it off. Then a few minutes later the bangs started again but not coming from the fan. As my Thai lady walked over to the wall switches she felt like a mini earthquake coming from the floor and suddenly 5 large tiles rose up a millimetre or so with the grouting all spilling up around the edges. 
I’m not suggesting that we had an earthquake by any means but I assume that the extreme heat of late has probably caused some expansion in the tiles and with no room to go sideways they’ve gone upwards. The temp here yesterday reached 41 and currently it’s 40. 

[steve187]

the standard spacing for floor tiling is 3mm, Thailand in their wisdom fix tiles with almost no gap, there for any expansion results in tiles popping, another problem is fixing porcelain tiles with sand and cement, porcelain tiles will not stick to sand and cement, a porcelain suitable adhesive is required.

 

i have spent the last few days breaking up loose 600 x 600 porcelain tiles in a house that we rent out, not an easy job, the best way is to completely take up the old tiles without remove the sand and cement bed, level the floor with a suitable floor leveller compound or adhesive and retile with correct adhesive using a 3mm gap and a deep maybe 8/10mm notched trowel,

 

i spent 40+ years in the UK as a floor and wall tiler, both before and after adhesive came on the market. i almost cry when i see the tilers at work here, everything cut with a grinder, no dry cutter or wet cutter, no laser levels

good luck

[userabcd]

Have seen this happen in some condos as well.

 

Expansion movement of the tiles where there is no allowance for expansion and contraction and eventually the tiles lift with a bang in the weakest part.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, poppysdad said:

large tiles

It seems with large tiles the chance of having problems is much higher compared to smaller tiles. And with even larger tiles it gets worse.

 

This guy seems to know what he is talking about - at least I get that impression.

 

 

[lkn]

10 hours ago, steve187 said:

another problem is fixing porcelain tiles with sand and cement, porcelain tiles will not stick to sand and cement, a porcelain suitable adhesive is required

For our condo it was definitely insufficient bonding. After some of the tiles started to come undone, I had the building staff tap on all tiles, and mark those that gave a hollow sound, which indicates that the tile had not bonded to the substrate. After seeing how many tiles had not bonded properly, we decided to retile the entire floor — removing the tiles did confirm that bonding was woefully insufficient.

 

And yes, it seems to be a common problem in Thailand. Same with plumbing, lots of drainage seems to lack proper smell traps and/or venting, so the smell of sewage in your bathroom is not uncommon in Thailand.

[Henryford]

Happened to several condos in my block last year.

[RafPinto]

The big bang theory.

[ThailandRyan]

On 4/14/2022 at 2:50 AM, lkn said:

For our condo it was definitely insufficient bonding. After some of the tiles started to come undone, I had the building staff tap on all tiles, and mark those that gave a hollow sound, which indicates that the tile had not bonded to the substrate. After seeing how many tiles had not bonded properly, we decided to retile the entire floor — removing the tiles did confirm that bonding was woefully insufficient.

 

And yes, it seems to be a common problem in Thailand. Same with plumbing, lots of drainage seems to lack proper smell traps and/or venting, so the smell of sewage in your bathroom is not uncommon in Thailand.

Tiling is just one of many problems seen in Thailand, just take a look at the sidewalks and how badly in disrepair they are.....

 

It is not only Tiles that are a problem in homes or condos.  I have wooden laminate in my Condo, and the flooring near my sliders to the main balcony have started to become soft in some spots as the bonding agent, or cement used has deteriorated.

[RafPinto]

58 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Tiling is just one of many problems seen in Thailand, just take a look at the sidewalks and how badly in disrepair they are.....

 

It is not only Tiles that are a problem in homes or condos.  I have wooden laminate in my Condo, and the flooring near my sliders to the main balcony have started to become soft in some spots as the bonding agent, or cement used has deteriorated.

Bonding agent?

Go to immigration, plenty of reliable agent hanging out there ????

[PJ71]

It's called 'tenting' when this happens.

[BritManToo]

On 5/4/2022 at 12:18 PM, ThailandRyan said:

I have wooden laminate in my Condo, and the flooring near my sliders to the main balcony have started to become soft in some spots as the bonding agent, or cement used has deteriorated.

More likely termites.

[OneMoreFarang]

39 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

It's called 'tenting' when this happens.

I think that term is not only used for tiles...

[kwak250]

Just looking at buying tiles i see some are huge and do like not having all the joins 
I think 90cm x 60cm
They have larger ones which i prefer but i am reading they can lift

Anyway to prevent this other than stand next to them while they tile?

[OneMoreFarang]

19 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

Just looking at buying tiles i see some are huge and do like not having all the joins 
I think 90cm x 60cm
They have larger ones which i prefer but i am reading they can lift

Anyway to prevent this other than stand next to them while they tile?

According to professionals, it is a lot more difficult to install large tiles correctly. 

If you find someone who is good at that job, then fine. But if you don't find the top specialist, then better let them do small tiles which are much easier to install. 

[steven100]

It's not easy to find a good tiler in Thailand who knows what they're doing ......    come to think of it it's not easy to find any good tradesman here.

I built two houses, and when you see 110v wires twisted and taped and welding like cat poop ..... you know it's an uphill battle.    

 

 

 

Edited August 20 by steven100

[Dante99]

On 8/20/2024 at 6:18 PM, steven100 said:

when you see 110v wires

Where do you see them?  All I see are 240v.

[retarius]

Interesting. I can't say I have had any experience like it, but I did wonder at the tiny inter-tile gaps left in the tiling. 

[Muhendis]

On 5/4/2022 at 12:08 PM, RafPinto said:

The big bang theory.

And why not?

This is Thile-land after all.

[steven100]

6 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Where do you see them?  All I see are 240v.

 

sorry,  my bad .. I meant 240v .....    I think the US is 110v 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24 by steven100

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:21 PM, poppysdad said:

About 30 minutes ago sitting under our ceiling fan going at full throttle to try to keep cool we heard  a succession of small bangs. We immediately thought the fan elements were overheating and switched it off. Then a few minutes later the bangs started again but not coming from the fan. As my Thai lady walked over to the wall switches she felt like a mini earthquake coming from the floor and suddenly 5 large tiles rose up a millimetre or so with the grouting all spilling up around the edges. 
I’m not suggesting that we had an earthquake by any means but I assume that the extreme heat of late has probably caused some expansion in the tiles and with no room to go sideways they’ve gone upwards. The temp here yesterday reached 41 and currently it’s 40. 

Cuz  they aint got a  clue about expansion and as important cleanliness, I mean who needs a  vacuum when and old brush ( if your  lucky) will do and NOTHING changes, just retiled my own balcony and the  the neighbours  above (leaked like a sieve into our room)  They never clean the floor  before tiling ( jetwash) they never vacuum it, they never use a bonding agent like Lanko 751 they dont really use tile adhesive just a bucket of "slop" mixed like p**s then to top it  off use grout like water in joints that are hairline thick....,I could go on forever............the office of the building offered to fix the neighbours  floor for 2000 baht the main priority for them was simple " he cheap"  just about sums  it  up, in the end I removed 3  aircons stripped the floor ( not hard when not stuck down)  washed it, dried it lanko'd it back buttered  all tiles etc blah blah. Floors ive done, and I mean done not watched or supervised as even if you supervise theyll mix the adhesive like water, My Grouting wont  fall out of the mixing bucket if you turn it upside down theirs is like water. One room finished last year ripped everything out for her indoors, did everything myself its the ONLY safe way.  I have all the time in the world........  feel sorry for the poor  sod who ever  has to remove them although easier to tile over them. Excuse wifes crap music, took me  about 10 weeks no help, built ins made locally in BKK but i install them Oh yeah this was the one I built a  block wall inside to shut the neighbour 's noise up, did it  just fine despite some pratts  telling me it would do nothing........

[Will B Good]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:06 PM, steve187 said:

the standard spacing for floor tiling is 3mm, Thailand in their wisdom fix tiles with almost no gap, there for any expansion results in tiles popping, another problem is fixing porcelain tiles with sand and cement, porcelain tiles will not stick to sand and cement, a porcelain suitable adhesive is required.

 

i have spent the last few days breaking up loose 600 x 600 porcelain tiles in a house that we rent out, not an easy job, the best way is to completely take up the old tiles without remove the sand and cement bed, level the floor with a suitable floor leveller compound or adhesive and retile with correct adhesive using a 3mm gap and a deep maybe 8/10mm notched trowel,

 

i spent 40+ years in the UK as a floor and wall tiler, both before and after adhesive came on the market. i almost cry when i see the tilers at work here, everything cut with a grinder, no dry cutter or wet cutter, no laser levels

good luck

 

Just been wondering about that....can I ask a question?

 

We have gaps and grouting.....not a problem, but the grouting does look grubby. I've noticed in many places they lay tiles with no gap at all....looks super neat....how do they get away with that?

[OneMoreFarang]

9 hours ago, Will B Good said:

I've noticed in many places they lay tiles with no gap at all....looks super neat....how do they get away with that?

Because they don't know how it should be done.

And their supervisor doesn't know or doesn't care.

And then there is of course corruption.

 

It seems to me the main reason is that most of these people have no idea how it should be done. If they would just spend an hour on YouTube they could learn a lot how to make it better. But they don't do that. They also have no pride in their work.

IMHO that is the majority of people in Thailand in any job.

[steve187]

10 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

Just been wondering about that....can I ask a question?

 

We have gaps and grouting.....not a problem, but the grouting does look grubby. I've noticed in many places they lay tiles with no gap at all....looks super neat....how do they get away with that?

regarding grout I am a grey grey on floors and white on the walls man, one brand of adhesive i used in the UK had 32 colours of grout with matching colours of silicone,

  just use some bleach on the grout should clean it,

  yes the gap should be about 3mm to allow for expansion, should also allow a gap around the outer edge of the tiled area, also you should have an expansion gap every 8metres of run, that's where the matching silicone colours come in,

   laying tiles with no gap is asking for trouble, the same thing goes for not using a suitable thin bed adhesive, especially for porcelain tiles

[impulse]

11 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

They never clean the floor  before tiling ( jetwash) they never vacuum it, they never use a bonding agent like Lanko 751 they dont really use tile adhesive just a bucket of "slop" mixed like p**s then to top it  off use grout like water in joints that are hairline thick....,I could go on forever...........

 

The problem, of course, is that if they did all that stuff, they'd never get any work because their price would be higher.

 

I've been in hundreds of Thai buildings with excellent craftsmanship, top to bottom.  So the skills are available.  But are they affordable at the household level?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, impulse said:

I've been in hundreds of Thai buildings with excellent craftsmanship, top to bottom.  So the skills are available.  But are they affordable at the household level?

I think the question is more like: Are professional contractors or builders willing to take on small projects like the build or renovation of just one condominium?

If they can get the contract to work for a year in a hotel or two months in just one condo, it's not difficult to see why they are not interested in small projects.

 

I was lucky that I know a woman who managed the renovation of a big 5-star hotel, and she convinced one contractor to do my renovation. It wasn't cheap. But all in all, he and his teams did mostly good work. I am not so sure if he would have done this without this connection. Probably not. 

 

 

 

[Will B Good]

3 hours ago, steve187 said:

regarding grout I am a grey grey on floors and white on the walls man, one brand of adhesive i used in the UK had 32 colours of grout with matching colours of silicone,

  just use some bleach on the grout should clean it,

  yes the gap should be about 3mm to allow for expansion, should also allow a gap around the outer edge of the tiled area, also you should have an expansion gap every 8metres of run, that's where the matching silicone colours come in,

   laying tiles with no gap is asking for trouble, the same thing goes for not using a suitable thin bed adhesive, especially for porcelain tiles

 

The ones I've seen with no gap are....I think....granite tiles.....does make difference?

[proton]

We had a few so called tilers over the years, none used the right equipment regarding trowels, adhesive or levelling pegs, you can't get them to change. The only decent ones were two Cambodians we poached off another job, they even had one of those infra red measures and did a good job. Thai who did the whole downstairs did have a bit of string though!

[itsari]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:06 PM, steve187 said:

the standard spacing for floor tiling is 3mm, Thailand in their wisdom fix tiles with almost no gap, there for any expansion results in tiles popping, another problem is fixing porcelain tiles with sand and cement, porcelain tiles will not stick to sand and cement, a porcelain suitable adhesive is required.

 

i have spent the last few days breaking up loose 600 x 600 porcelain tiles in a house that we rent out, not an easy job, the best way is to completely take up the old tiles without remove the sand and cement bed, level the floor with a suitable floor leveller compound or adhesive and retile with correct adhesive using a 3mm gap and a deep maybe 8/10mm notched trowel,

 

i spent 40+ years in the UK as a floor and wall tiler, both before and after adhesive came on the market. i almost cry when i see the tilers at work here, everything cut with a grinder, no dry cutter or wet cutter, no laser levels

good luck

The quality controll on tiling is non existent .

The quality can not improve until they have inspectors to test the tiles for being installed correctly. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

About the gap: When I bought my tiles they had detailed instructions on the boxes.

I read them. And I made sure my contractor also read them and acted accordingly.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 5/4/2022 at 12:18 PM, ThailandRyan said:

I have wooden laminate in my Condo, and the flooring near my sliders to the main balcony have started to become soft in some spots as the bonding agent, or cement used has deteriorated.

 

Water ingress...     We had the same and some of the flooring near the edges closer to bathroom leak had become soft (starting to rot)...  

 

Decided to relay the whole floor and do a proper job of it.  Contractors were a waste of time, reckoned they could do everything in one day (rip up old floor, install new) - no chance of that... they didn't turn up on the first day...  Were late on the second so I pulled the plug and decided to do it all myself. 

 

Hard work and shagged my knees, took me 5 days, but in the end a better job than they would have done - which is a little surprising as the some of the skirting board corners, at the doors etc are very tricky to get 'spot on'.

 

----------

 

The standard of workmanship in Thailand is generally atrocious - if there is a shortcut to be taken, it will be taken (thats probably true of labourers everywhere), but those shortcuts come back to haunt us later on - which doesn't matter for the workmen who have long gone by then. 

So, the only thing to do is 'look over their shoulder' all the time - which pi$$es them off and causes lots of debate about about the right way to do things... and 'This is the Thai way'  type responses as if that golden droplet supersedes international standards and common sense !!!... 

 

In this case 'popping tiles' its clear that the tiles have been laid with the incorrect bond and laid too close - not an issue initially, until of course, this happens. 

 

I know of a case where a foreigner had his whole floor done on the ground floor.

Paid for the job, weeks later many the tiles popped up - the contractor refused to come and fix the issue. The foreigner took the case to court and won. The contractor had to fix the issue or return the costs (money paid) so another contractor could come in and do the job... Great, a win in court !!!...  the contractor disappeared and was never heard from again !!!..  So, even with a court win - nothing happend.