Testosterone enanthate – in Pattaya or BKK

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

That will only happen if you don't reach the muscle and end up injecting into fat. You might need a longer needle LOL.

Subq injections is in to the fat ????

 

And to much to fast or not clean oil can make lumbs even in the muscle, also give infection. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Hummin

[JensenZ]

48 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Subq injections is in to the fat ????

 

And to much to fast or not clean oil can make lumbs even in the muscle, also give infection. 

Testosterone Enanathate oils are designed to be IM, not subQ. Why would you do that? You can inject 1 ml into the muscle as fast as you like, you will not get a lump. You'll only get a lump if you miss the muscle, and that would only happen if the needle is too short to get through your fat layer. Other hormone injections such as GH and Insulin are SubQ.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

Testosterone Enanathate oils are designed to be IM, not subQ. Why would you do that? You can inject 1 ml into the muscle as fast as you like, you will not get a lump. You'll only get a lump if you miss the muscle, and that would only happen if the needle is too short to get through your fat layer. Other hormone injections such as GH and Insulin are SubQ.

There is no known complications taking testestorone enenthate subq in micro doses. 

 

Comparison of Outcomes for Hypogonadal Men Treated with Intramuscular Testosterone Cypionate versus Subcutaneous Testosterone Enanthate

 

Conclusions: While IM-TC and SCTE-AI provide a significant increase in TT levels, SCTE-AI is associated with lower levels of post-therapy HCT and E2 compared to IM-TC after adjusting for significant covariates. SCTE-AI is an effective testosterone delivery system with a potentially preferable safety profile over IM-TC.

read more articles from more clinical studies here

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34694927/

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

There is no known complications taking testestorone enenthate subq in micro doses. 

 

Comparison of Outcomes for Hypogonadal Men Treated with Intramuscular Testosterone Cypionate versus Subcutaneous Testosterone Enanthate

 

Conclusions: While IM-TC and SCTE-AI provide a significant increase in TT levels, SCTE-AI is associated with lower levels of post-therapy HCT and E2 compared to IM-TC after adjusting for significant covariates. SCTE-AI is an effective testosterone delivery system with a potentially preferable safety profile over IM-TC.

read more articles from more clinical studies here

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34694927/

Thanks, that's interesting, but the study doesn't show the E2 levels or HCT levels. Also, why use Cypionate for IM injection and Enanthate for SubQ? They have different half lives among other differences.

 

https://www.hgha.com/blog/testosterone/testosterone-cypionate-vs-enanthate

 

I wouldn't be using this study as evidence that sub cutaneous injection has any advanages as the study seems to be poorly constructed and using different drugs makes no sense at all. I'd need to see a lot more conclusive research before I would change my injection mode.

 

Why are they talking about TRT and post cycle therapy recovery after 12 weeks. TRT is not useful in cycles for older people as they have a low natural TT production which doesn't get better after a cycle of TT supplementation.

 

Your comment : "There is no known complications taking testestorone enenthate subq in micro doses" is not true. You will always shut your natural production down if you supplement and end up with testicular atrophy. I would call that a huge complication. TRT is basically chemical castration. There are other drugs you can take to slow it down, but what is the point if you've dedicated yourself to TRT for life, which is really the point of it. Why didn't the study incude serum DHT levels, which are definitely a "complication" for some people.

 

Excessive E2 and HCT don't concern me with low dosing, which is all that is needed to keep testosterone levels in the normal range.


 

 

[Hummin]

31 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

 

 

Your comment : "There is no known complications taking testestorone enenthate subq in micro doses" is not true. You will always shut your natural production down if you supplement and end up with testicular atrophy. I would call that a huge complication. TRT is basically chemical castration. There are other drugs you can take to slow it down, but what is the point if you've dedicated yourself to TRT for life, which is really the point of it. Why didn't the study incude serum DHT levels, which are definitely a "complication" for some people.

 

.


 

 

I already take it for granted there is a reason why we use trt in the beginning, so yes, if you start on trt, we know, or should know

 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Hummin

[Dart12]

On 6/19/2022 at 2:18 PM, WaveHunter said:

I'm afraid you are correct.  I used to only deal with the "parents" and they were so knowledgeable I felt like I was talking to a doctor! 

 

One of the younger ones was always pretty good too, but on my last visit, one of the others sounded like he didn;t know what he was talking about at all.  His advice made me so uncomfortable, I decided not to buy from them that day.

 

FYI, I ended up buying from another pharmacy right around the corner from where I live in Jomtien called Ocean Pharmacy.  Not nearly as much stock as Tim's but I was only looking to purchase Testosterone, and they carried Bayer.

 

I like Tim's and will try again...hoping they get their act together!

know what you want...or talk to (I think) the oldest brother.  But even then take things with a grain of salt.

 

On 6/19/2022 at 2:10 PM, WaveHunter said:

Not true at all.  TRT is not like an on/off switch.  My serum levels were incredibly low when my doctor suggested TRT therapy.  They were below 300 ng/dL (TT).  It took over three months of injections before I noticed any discernible difference at all, and even then they were very subtle.

 

My doctor was smart enough to tell me at the outset, that far more important to resolving my issues was to improve my lifestyle in terms of nutrition and exercise, and I followed that advice in a big way.

 

Sorry but there is just too much hyped up misinformation about TRT out there right now.  It's put out there by self-serving doctors looking to profit from it, and from new TRT patients with such unrealistic expectations that they delude themselves into believing that TRT is magically transforming them, when in fact, it is not.

 

TRT is not going to make you Superman overnight, and what I have found after being on TRT for over 6 years now is that it's a good thing to keep your serum levels on the high end of normal, but there are a lot of other things you should be doing to improve your lifestyle, like nutrition and proper exercise that will benefit you to a greater extent than just relying on drugs.

Everyone's body is different.  Some can feel like they took aspirin and coffee by the next day and feeling more energetic.  

[Dart12]

On 6/19/2022 at 7:55 PM, JensenZ said:

Anastrozole/arimedex is very expensive in Thailand if you can find it, but the only "danger" is that it is extremely effective in lowering estradiol and in the regular 1mg capsule dose, it is way too powerful to be used with regular TRT testosterone doses and it could lower your estradiol to zero. It is best to find it in hard tablet form, and use a tablet cutter to divide one tablet in 4. I used to use 1/4 tablet every other day to keep my estradiol in the normal range. For most people on very conservative TRT, even that is too much.

 

We're not living in the dark ages anymore, where doctors are the only purveyors of knowledge. You can learn everything you need to know online... which is exactly what people are doing in this thread.

Did you find a source?

[georgegeorgia]

Ok guys please help.

I'm in Pattaya now, I'm 62yo weight train everyday but feel tired and not much muscle mass even though I lift heavy.

 

Question is I'm thinking about going to this Maximum TRT place for their 15000 baht  test injection,but I know nothing , is one injection going to do anything?

And second question someone said they buy test from a "ocean" pharmacy and go to a clinic and they inject it ?

That maybe cheaper for me ...but what do I ask for , ? How much should I buy ?

I know nothing !!!!

Edited June 22, 2022 by georgegeorgia

[Hummin]

25 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Ok guys please help.

I'm in Pattaya now, I'm 62yo weight train everyday but feel tired and not much muscle mass even though I lift heavy.

 

Question is I'm thinking about going to this Maximum TRT place for their 15000 baht  test injection,but I know nothing , is one injection going to do anything?

And second question someone said they buy test from a "ocean" pharmacy and go to a clinic and they inject it ?

That maybe cheaper for me ...but what do I ask for , ? How much should I buy ?

I know nothing !!!!

When you join Maximum, it not only the nebido shot you get, it is also after following up controll you get. There is not much different between Maximum and Bangkok hospital when it comes to nebido. 
 

I would take their bloodwork package, and discuss with them what would be the best solution for you. And after awhile you can be self admistrated if you understand the væbasics, and also do your bloodwork regulary. In beginning every 3 months, after a year or two, every 6 months depending of how you feel and how your bloodwork have been previously. 
 

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Ok guys please help.

I'm in Pattaya now, I'm 62yo weight train everyday but feel tired and not much muscle mass even though I lift heavy.

Happens to  us all..... I noticed when I was finding the cases of beer heavy,   loading them on and off the truck!

[WaveHunter]

On 6/19/2022 at 7:55 PM, JensenZ said:

Anastrozole/arimedex is very expensive in Thailand if you can find it, but the only "danger" is that it is extremely effective in lowering estradiol and in the regular 1mg capsule dose, it is way too powerful to be used with regular TRT testosterone doses and it could lower your estradiol to zero. It is best to find it in hard tablet form, and use a tablet cutter to divide one tablet in 4. I used to use 1/4 tablet every other day to keep my estradiol in the normal range. For most people on very conservative TRT, even that is too much.

 

We're not living in the dark ages anymore, where doctors are the only purveyors of knowledge. You can learn everything you need to know online... which is exactly what people are doing in this thread.

It's actually not that expensive, and easy to find if you go to the right pharmacy.

 

For me, Anastrozole (6 MONTH SUPPLY) - 45 pills - THB 3000 (1/4 pill twice per week), so that is 115 THB per week or $3.25 USD per week).

 

Keep in mind that Anastrozole for TRT is "off-label" usage, and the brand I use (Alpha-Pharma) is not a recognized brand BUT my doctor recommended it as a low cost alternative to what a hospital pharmacy would provide and she was confident it was safe and effective, which my blood tests subsequently bore out.

 

My blood tests for estradiol always came back in range at a little bit under 39 pg/mL which is considered optimal.  Of course, everyone reacts differently to TRT and to Anastrozole so dosage and timing are for me ONLY and not a suggestion to others, but < 39pg/mL is considered the benchmark. 

 

While, as you say, a great deal of information needed to self-medicate is online, that is really not a wise thing to do since it's hard to judge the veracity of the source of information, and I have seen some pretty stupid things asserted by so-called "experts" onlines that could be pretty dangerous if they were accepted at face value.

 

Just like the saying goes about trying to be your own lawyer means having a fool for a client, the same can be said for someone trying to be their own doctor and self-medicate with TRT!  Very bad idea!

 

I post a lot on topics like this that I am familiar with BUT it is only with the intention that somebody reading my words will be aware of what I know AND THEN ASK THEIR DOCTOR ABOUT IT...NOT USE THAT INFORMATION TO SELF-MEDICATE!

 

You should really know that self medication with TRT can lead to complications you will not be aware of until it becomes life-threatening or irreversible, and only an experienced physician can look for signs of such complications before they become an issue.

 

Being aware of the actual science behind TRT is a good thing so you can have intelligent, well informed discussions with your doctor but using it to be your own doctor is just plain stupid IMO.

Edited June 27, 2022 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

On 6/11/2022 at 5:57 PM, Hummin said:

I can assure you that Bangkok Hospital anti aging center and my experience with Maximum clinic have been positive, and if you manage your own TRT, the blood work and Dr is not that expensive and the expertise have been excellent.

 

I never attended any other Dr or clinics in Thailand, but I truly believe they have specialists who know what they are talking about. They have never recommend  any other medications to squise out of me some extra money. 

 

They helped me with an optimized dose of T, that have made my T and estradiol stable without excess T to produce extra estradiol.

 

I agree totally to be careful, and be sure your Dr know and have studied hormones and anti aging.

 

I'm not sure any Dr knows better than they do.

 

I know body builders use Maximum, but I'm sure they do not treat me as an bodybuilder. 

I would be inclined to agree with you about a hospital-based clinic, but the proliferation of private clinics that promote TRT in a seriously unethical way are something else entirely.  I admit I have no personal experience with Maximum clinic, but the very name of the the clinic makes me suspicious.

 

As I said before, considering how mainstream TRT has become in the medical community today, many GP's can administer an effective and safe TRT protocol at very reasonable cost to the patient so why even consider a private clinic that advertises itself that way?

 

A safe and effective protocol for TRT is not really rocket science for an experienced doctor.  There's no need whatsoever for a specialist.  Any well read GP can do it effectively. 

 

The problem with a lot of these private clinics is that they may have a licensed MD associated with the clinic in name only, but since Testosterone is not a controlled drug here in Thailand, it does not require a licenced MD to prescribe a treatment plan.  That is the major issue I have with many (not all) of these private clinics, especially the ones that heavily market their services.

[WaveHunter]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:09 AM, Dart12 said:

know what you want...or talk to (I think) the oldest brother.  But even then take things with a grain of salt.

 

Everyone's body is different.  Some can feel like they took aspirin and coffee by the next day and feeling more energetic.  

LOL, I agree with what you say for sure.  I take so many "grains of salt" here in Thailand, that might turn into a health issue in itself!

 

The Placebo effect of protocols like TRT are a real thing.  When I read somebody saying their whole life turned around after their first shot of Testosterone always brings a smile to my face. 

 

From a physiological perspective though, It just ain't so.

 

Still, if it makes them feel better, what's the harm?  Just one thing...those are the same people who also believe that if a little bit of something is good, then more must be better.

 

It's always best to just do what your doctor suggests and realize that TRT is a long term treatment, not a magic bullet.

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I would be inclined to agree with you about a hospital-based clinic, but the proliferation of private clinics that promote TRT in a seriously unethical way are something else entirely.  I admit I have no personal experience with Maximum clinic, but the very name of the the clinic makes me suspicious.

 

As I said before, considering how mainstream TRT has become in the medical community today, many GP's can administer an effective and safe TRT protocol at very reasonable cost to the patient so why even consider a private clinic that advertises itself that way?

 

A safe and effective protocol for TRT is not really rocket science for an experienced doctor.  There's no need whatsoever for a specialist.  Any well read GP can do it effectively. 

 

The problem with a lot of these private clinics is that they may have a licensed MD associated with the clinic in name only, but since Testosterone is not a controlled drug here in Thailand, it does not require a licenced MD to prescribe a treatment plan.  That is the major issue I have with many (not all) of these private clinics, especially the ones that heavily market their services.

Everything have been said before in this tread about my experience, and really do not understand why this have to be a repeating throwback discussion.

 

I have no interest in advocating their clinic, except giving my best answers from my best knownledge after 6 years of trt, and read pretty much everything I could come by of valid information backed by available clinical researches. 
 

They give you a proper blood test package to a reasonable price, and do give sober advises, that is not in conflict with the dr advises from Bangkok Hospital. 
 

My experience on general dr’s is that they know nothing about trt. 
 

 

[SEAsia Traveler]

Can someone please recommend a good clinic or doctor to have baseline bloodwork done in Bangkok or Hua Hin?

 

I'm age 54 and have not taken TRT before.

 

I have andropause symptoms but my total testosterone has been pretty stable over the years,  measuring at 809 in October 2021, up from 766 in May 2016.

[travelli]

On 6/11/2022 at 5:24 AM, WaveHunter said:

I keep telling you guys...STAY AWAY FROM THESE TYPE OF CLINICS!  IMO, they are dangerous and they are only out to rip you off despite all their BS about how they are the only clinics that really know how to treat your needs.  Most licensed GP MD's knows everything there is to know about TRT.  it is not rocket science.  You can go to any hospital and ask to consult with an MD well versed in TRT, and get the advice, evaluation, blood tests, and a treatment protocol at a reasonable price.

 

Believe it or not, most of these TRT clinics here in Thailand are run by NON-LICENSED DOCTORS.  They may have a licensed MD associated with their business, but you will be getting your advice and treatment from somebody with no credentials at all!  It's a "legal" scam, and a very costly one to you, and far from ideal for your optimum health.

 

If you are looking for Proviron, but asking about a clinic as a way to get your hands on some, it kind of sounds like you are trying to be you own TRT doctor.  BAD IDEA! 

 

TRT is a remarkably safe and effective treatment IF OVERSEEN BY A GOOD DOCTOR.  You really do not want to go messing around on your own based on information you pick up on YouTube, at the gym, or on muscle forums because sooner or later it's going to come back and bite you!  

 

Believe it or not, you can be self-administering and feel just fine...and then wind up in an emergency room one day with a heart attack!  Don't believe me?  Google "Polycythemia", just as an example.

 

I know a lot of people who relied on dumb advice they heard on some dopey YouTube guru's site and ended up regretting it.  Don't be one of them.

 

Many people overlook how amazing the resources are for TRT right at your local hospital here in Thailand.  Like I said, TRT is not rocket science.  Most MD's know how to run a protocol, and some of the younger doctors on staff at a hospital are ideal to put you on a good TRT protocol at a very reasonable cost.

Thanks for the advice and help. However, I am interested only in Proviron, not TRT.

[WaveHunter]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:23 PM, travelli said:

Thanks for the advice and help. However, I am interested only in Proviron, not TRT.

Proviron is pretty easy and inexpensive if you find the right pharmacy.  I get Bayer very cheaply my my pharmacy in Pattaya, at about 1/10 the price a hospital pharmacy sells it for, and no it is not fake ????

 

[Guggenheim]

I buy my Testosterone online in Thailand, more convenient. Cheaper and until now better quality than the stuff they sell at pharmacies.  They are called Delta Pharma , this their TikTok https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRPhN66g/

[travelli]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:44 AM, WaveHunter said:

Proviron is pretty easy and inexpensive if you find the right pharmacy.  I get Bayer very cheaply my my pharmacy in Pattaya, at about 1/10 the price a hospital pharmacy sells it for, and no it is not fake ????

 

OK, thanks! Do you mean “Tim's pharmacy”? Or can you recommend some other hassle-free (no prescription required) pharmacy?

[JimTripper]

one thing i could probably use right now is more testosterone (just turned 53)

Edited September 8, 2022 by JimTripper

[WaveHunter]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:10 AM, travelli said:

OK, thanks! Do you mean “Tim's pharmacy”? Or can you recommend some other hassle-free (no prescription required) pharmacy?

Yes, Tim's pharmacy.  Best pharmacy I have found in Pattaya.

[WaveHunter]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:37 PM, Guggenheim said:

I buy my Testosterone online in Thailand, more convenient. Cheaper and until now better quality than the stuff they sell at pharmacies.  They are called Delta Pharma , this their TikTok https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRPhN66g/

BAD ADVICE!  No unknown brand with cheap labelling is going to be higher quality than Bayer, which is what most local pharmacies sell here in the Kingdom.  Bayer is reasonably priced and a LEGITIMATE global pharmaceutical company.

 

While test is rarely faked, it can happen, and buying a completely unknown brand with cheap looking labelling is an invitation to compromising your health! 

 

No offense meant but I have seen many posts like this on Aseannow from poster with ZERO post history who do not have the best of intentions when posting links to unknown sites such as you have done.  Just sayin'!

[WaveHunter]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:23 PM, travelli said:

Thanks for the advice and help. However, I am interested only in Proviron, not TRT.

I know...I just feel the feed to climb up on my soapbox from time to time ????

 

[travelli]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:00 PM, WaveHunter said:

I know...I just feel the feed to climb up on my soapbox from time to time ????

 

Btw, can buy Proviron OTC in BKK? Can you recommend any pharmacy?

[WaveHunter]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:33 AM, travelli said:

Btw, can buy Proviron OTC in BKK? Can you recommend any pharmacy?

In BKK, there are a few pharmacies that have a good reputation for selling "difficult to find" items that are GENUINE pharmaceutical grade drugs at reasonable prices.  There are also many pharmacies that sell counterfeit fake stuff, so it is wise you are concerned.

 

I live in Pattaya since 2018 so things could have changed (since Covid) but at the time, there were three pharmacies that were all highly reputable and trustworthy in this regard.

 

IMO, the the two best ones were on Sukhumvit Road.  South East Pharmacy and KS Pharmacy. Both are quite close to each other. If you are taking train, get off at Nana or Asoke BTS Station or Sukhumvit MRT Station. They are just a few minutes walk from these train stations and their storefronts are large and very easy to spot. 

 

Along Silom / Rama IV, there is another shop call S.C. Drugstore. It is easily accessible from SalaDeang BTS Station or the Silom MRT Station.

 

 

[travelli]

16 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

In BKK, there are a few pharmacies that have a good reputation for selling "difficult to find" items that are GENUINE pharmaceutical grade drugs at reasonable prices.  There are also many pharmacies that sell counterfeit fake stuff, so it is wise you are concerned.

 

I live in Pattaya since 2018 so things could have changed (since Covid) but at the time, there were three pharmacies that were all highly reputable and trustworthy in this regard.

 

IMO, the the two best ones were on Sukhumvit Road.  South East Pharmacy and KS Pharmacy. Both are quite close to each other. If you are taking train, get off at Nana or Asoke BTS Station or Sukhumvit MRT Station. They are just a few minutes walk from these train stations and their storefronts are large and very easy to spot. 

 

Along Silom / Rama IV, there is another shop call S.C. Drugstore. It is easily accessible from SalaDeang BTS Station or the Silom MRT Station.

 

 

Thanks again WaveHunter!

[travelli]

Hi guys! Is the content of these articles (still) valid?

https://www.thaiwebsites.com/medical-drugs-prices.asp

https://www.thaiwebsites.com/pharmacies_bangkok(2).asp

[Hummin]

On 9/6/2022 at 8:37 AM, Guggenheim said:

I buy my Testosterone online in Thailand, more convenient. Cheaper and until now better quality than the stuff they sell at pharmacies.  They are called Delta Pharma , this their TikTok https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRPhN66g/

Delta pharma is a socalled underground lab! 
 

Your choice your health. 

[WaveHunter]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:37 PM, Guggenheim said:

I buy my Testosterone online in Thailand, more convenient. Cheaper and until now better quality than the stuff they sell at pharmacies.  They are called Delta Pharma , this their TikTok https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRPhN66g/

I realize you are new on this forum but your post (with with only a couple of previous posts) sounds incredibly suspicious (as in a "shill" post)! 

 

NOBODY in their right mind would buy an injectable drug off of Tik Tok LOL!   To then say that it is better quality than a genuine pharma-grade product sold at pharmacies is even a more suspicious.  Hopefully nobody will follow your advice!

[TPRF]

Hello gentlemen,

 

I'm soon arriving from Indonesia, where you can easily order any kind of UGL steroid directly from shopee at a very competitive price: https://shopee.co.id/search?keyword=test e

 

I'm currently buying 10ml vials of Test Undecanoate for $35 with country-wide delivery, which is about 15 times cheaper than Nebido available in selected pharmacies in Thailand...

 

I have my dialed in TRT protocol and just need a source of cheap Test U. Could you please PM me any online UGL sources that operate in Thailand?