£0.6bn a year to uprate UK pensions for Thai retirees

[Thingamabob]

Disappointing but not surprising. As long ago as 1985 I was a member of a UK delegation from Taiwan to the UK parliament on this issue. Same answer then as we have now. Now we have back the right to participate in UK elections it's surprising that not one of the main UK parties has not yet spotted there could be extra votes for them if they supported this petition.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, Bim Smith said:

Pensioners asking for what is due for something they have paid in all their life? Sorry we can't afford that.

The increases are not "what is due" in Thailand, you already get what is due, i.e.  the state pension that you are paid.       

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Correct and reasonable answer. ????

Which answer?

[Chris.B]

Making cost comparisons using Defence as an example is just repetitive leftist claptrap. Recent events have shown that if anything, defence spending is woefully inadequate.

 

You should be making comparisons with....

 

1) The millions spent on overpaid "TV stars" and newscasters by the BBC.

2) The millions misused on top management and woke training in the NHS.

3) The millions spent on supporting illegal immigrants coming from Calais.

4) The millions wasted on the House of Lords, one of the largest legislative bodies in the world.

5) The millions wasted on gold plated pensions for MPs, police and civil servants.

6) The billions wasted on the "Overseas Development fund".

7) Billions wasted on climate change such as cars using diesel fiasco and now electric cars.

 

 

and so on.....

 

 

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Which answer?

The government's of course????

[Foghorn]

It cost the uk tax payer £5,000,000 a day to house illegal migrants  ,can’t afford to pay for British citizens,  vote British First party the only party to end this

Edited May 12, 2022 by Foghorn

[robertson468]

I think that we should be excused paying UK Income tax instead of being denied an annual increase in pension.  We don't use the UK roads, UK Police, Health Service etc, so should be exempt this charge!

[billd766]

2 hours ago, SatEng said:

If you don't like immigrants - don't be one

There is a whole lot of difference between legal and illegal immigrants.

 

Legal immigrants apply to stay in a country, and are expected to be able to support themselves and their families, and get nothing from the host government and country.

 

Illegal immigrants simply take from the government and the country and expect everything from the host country.

 

Do you understand the difference?

[mommysboy]

Ultimately. there is no justification for paying 2 equally entitled members unequal amounts.  

 

It's not a residency based entitlement; it's clearly contribution based.  And for all their arguments, it is also very clearly in effect a pension scheme.

 

But we aren't going to get it- end of.  The best thing we can do is keep healthy and fit, or move to the Flips.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, SatEng said:

Unfortunately incorrect.

If you were living in the UK and spending your money there it would be a net benefit compared to the cost to NHS and state services on average - treasury estimates

This is why they don't give a fig about you if you are living abroad and spending your pension abroad

 

For a pensioner! Got any figures?

[Millcx]

If you think they will index Link for Thai retirees then think again … If they do for us they have to do for every country like Australia etc .. So signatures complete waste of time … Dream on

[Harveyboy]

7 hours ago, oxmermaid said:

As usual the standard clap trap response from the UK Government.

 

Sure it would cost them a shed load of money to bring the pensions inline with UK based pensioners, but what is not mentioned is the savings made by us 'exiles' not be a drain on the NHS and state care services. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the figure exceeded the quoted upgrade costs.

 

yep true after we left we cost them nothing ...we gave all they give F A

[Flink]

16 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense...unless you can back that up with specific evidence, not hearsay.

Will this do, seeing as it is feom the UK government website?:

This from the Gov.uk site:
Asylum support
1.    Overview
2.    What you'll get
3.    Eligibility
4.    How to claim
5.    Further information
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.
Cash support
You’ll get £40.85 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.
Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:
•    somewhere to live
•    £40.85 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You will not be given:
•    the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live
•    any money
So, the latest government figures show that 37,000 illegals/asylum seekers is costing 4.7million pounds a day foraccommodation alone. That's 127.02 per person per day. Add in the 5.83 on their payment card, free meals (forthose in hotel accommodation) Wi-Fi, no electricity bills, water bills council tax. Here are the figures:

1.     Food - Assuming you live by yourself, the average monthly grocery bill for one person in the UK is £137 (£32 per week).  (Source: https://themindfulmoneyproject.com/average-food-budget-in-the-uk-how-do-you-compare/)

2.     Electricity - Data published by Ofgem, the energy market regulator, shows that in September 2021 the average UK energy bill was £95 per month, or £1,138 a year. (Source: https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/what-is-the-average-energy-bill-in-the-uk)

3.     Internet/Wi-Fi - On average, you should expect to pay around $60 a month for high-speed internet. However, prices can range between $20 and $100 per month or more depending on where you live, which provider you choose, and which plan you go with. (Source: https://www.move.org/how-much-pay-for-internet/)

4.     Water - the average UK household's bill for water and sewage at £385 per year, or about £32 per month. (Source: https://www.uswitch.com/water/price-of-water/)

Total per week –             Food                                                £32.00

                                           Electricity                                        £23.75

                                           Internet                                           £15.00

                                           Water                                              £7.40

                                           Rent                                                 £127.02

Total cost pp/wk                                                                      £205.17

 

Additional payment (via prepaid card)                                 £40.85

Each illegal asylum arrival in the UK therefore receives up to £246.02 per week from government funds, even after their asylum claim has been rejected.

Conversely:

The full new State Pension is £185.15 per week. The actual amount you get depends on your National Insurance record.(Source: https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/what-youll-get#:~:text=The%20full%20new%20State%20Pension,amount%20of%20Additional%20State%20Pension)

So, the British government spends, on average, £60.90 more per week on illegal asylum seekers than on their own people who have contributed NIC payments for decades.

Does that satisfy your desire for details?

[smutcakes]

Good decision by the Government. Not sure there is anything more detestable than a whinging old expat. Give me bombs, immigrants anytime over that bunch.

 

As a still UK contributor i am very happy my tax money is not being frittered away on  people who willingly moved abroad in full knowledge that this was the case.

[Flink]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It's a benefit that is provided to illegal immigrants only until their cases are finalised and they are deported from the country.   

 

You clearly aren't able to make the distinction between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, they are not the same.

Well, as far as these boat people are concerned they ARE asylum seekers. Genuine asylum seekers I have no issue with, however, these characters in the boats only claim to be asylum seekers when caught. Genuine asylum seekers with a GENUINE claim for asylum can (and do) use the specified channels to apply. These guys on the boats are economic migrants who just use the asylum claim to prevent them being booted backout to sea. If their claims were genuine they would not be ditching their identity documents intothe channel on the way across. 

[chilly07]

This is the standard response.

Previously the petition did reach 100000 and the matter was debated by the subcommittee who recommended unfreezing state pensions. This was ignored by the government.

However the UK government is now backpacking around the world negotiating trade agreements as they foolishly dumped the biggest trade agreement of all through Brexit. Australia New Zealand India Canada all have the opportunity of enforcing state pension inflation as well as preferential visas. Spain has just dumped uk driving licences and restricted visas.

Will the host countries enforce pension inflation as well as preferential visas as part of all the new agreements? Do they even know they can?

Incidentally this response alludes to pensioners being encouraged to emigrate if pensions are not frozen and singles out the above listed countries as preferential hosts if pensions are unfrozen. Spending pensions outside of the UK may be a more sensible driver but I think the DWP anticipates mass migration to prime retirement locations if pensions are unfrozen! 

[Flink]

1 hour ago, Bim Smith said:

Covid overreaction, blank cheque. Immigrants being put up in hotels, blank cheque. Funding a war that's nothing to do with us, blank cheque. Pensioners asking for what is due for something they have paid in all their life? Sorry we can't afford that. The UK doesn't need a new government it needs a complete system overhaul that actually serves the people it's supposed too. 

True, but whenever that sort of thing is suggested everyone immediately thinks of the politicians. They are not the problem. The real problem is the people holding the reins of power -  the civil service. Things never change with successive governments because the political parties are not in charge. They have ideas and then the civil service tells them why they can't do it. Now, if the civil servants were directly connected to the parties then when a party gets voted out of office the civil servants would go too, then they might care more about what the voting public wants. As it stands they only care about increasing their wealth and sticking around long enough to get one of the best pension packages available in the public sector in the UK.

[chilly07]

12 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Good decision by the Government. Not sure there is anything more detestable than a whinging old expat. Give me bombs, immigrants anytime over that bunch.

 

As a still UK contributor i am very happy my tax money is not being frittered away on  people who willingly moved abroad in full knowledge that this was the case.

Frozen pensioners still pay full tax in the UK but are prohibited from using the NHS!

[LEXUS 400]

God save the Quuen , and everybody will be happy !. ( Ha -Ha )

[chilly07]

2 minutes ago, Flink said:

True, but whenever that sort of thing is suggested everyone immediately thinks of the politicians. They are not the problem. The real problem is the people holding the reins of power -  the civil service. Things never change with successive governments because the political parties are not in charge. They have ideas and then the civil service tells them why they can't do it. Now, if the civil servants were directly connected to the parties then when a party gets voted out of office the civil servants would go too, then they might care more about what the voting public wants. As it stands they only care about increasing their wealth and sticking around long enough to get one of the best pension packages available in the public sector in the UK.

Correct! Civil service have been polishing up this response for 70 years!

[edwinchester]

3 hours ago, Flink said:

Is it just me, or does that sound like they don't want to but are being forced to?

Absolutely....spot on.

[Funkymover]

so you can if you live in the Philippines, but not in Thailand,,   so does it cost them less in the Philippines than it would in Thailand,,, why one country but not another ?

[Almer]

I think it is for all retirees where there is not a reciprocal arrangement.

Without all the tear dropping reasons they should pay me a full and benifit from annual increases they never will, there reason “ it was our choice” to live in the sun.

I need to sit down and work out would I be better of renting a modest condo in Vietnam and live a bit in Thailand and a bit in Vietnam !!!!!!!

I always have the option to return to Blighty and being I have no assets I would be able to claim every benefit going, plus I am self funding cancer treatment in Thailand so I would become a burden to an already stretched NHS, it’s my choice and I am under no illusion the day I left Blighty after all I paid in taxes  NI etc it stood for nothing, 

I hope the MP’s enjoy there salmon sandwiches and wine fore lunch, me a bottle of Leo and what ever suits me fine

[Almer]

2 hours ago, robertson468 said:

I think that we should be excused paying UK Income tax instead of being denied an annual increase in pension.  We don't use the UK roads, UK Police, Health Service etc, so should be exempt this charge!

It is that that bugs me, there reason for not paying an increase is the UK economy doesn't benefit,   But the economy benefits from my private pension being taxed. 

[Almer]

1 hour ago, Flink said:

Will this do, seeing as it is feom the UK government website?:

This from the Gov.uk site:
Asylum support
1.    Overview
2.    What you'll get
3.    Eligibility
4.    How to claim
5.    Further information
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.
Cash support
You’ll get £40.85 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.
Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:
•    somewhere to live
•    £40.85 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You will not be given:
•    the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live
•    any money
So, the latest government figures show that 37,000 illegals/asylum seekers is costing 4.7million pounds a day foraccommodation alone. That's 127.02 per person per day. Add in the 5.83 on their payment card, free meals (forthose in hotel accommodation) Wi-Fi, no electricity bills, water bills council tax. Here are the figures:

1.     Food - Assuming you live by yourself, the average monthly grocery bill for one person in the UK is £137 (£32 per week).  (Source: https://themindfulmoneyproject.com/average-food-budget-in-the-uk-how-do-you-compare/)

2.     Electricity - Data published by Ofgem, the energy market regulator, shows that in September 2021 the average UK energy bill was £95 per month, or £1,138 a year. (Source: https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/what-is-the-average-energy-bill-in-the-uk)

3.     Internet/Wi-Fi - On average, you should expect to pay around $60 a month for high-speed internet. However, prices can range between $20 and $100 per month or more depending on where you live, which provider you choose, and which plan you go with. (Source: https://www.move.org/how-much-pay-for-internet/)

4.     Water - the average UK household's bill for water and sewage at £385 per year, or about £32 per month. (Source: https://www.uswitch.com/water/price-of-water/)

Total per week –             Food                                                £32.00

                                           Electricity                                        £23.75

                                           Internet                                           £15.00

                                           Water                                              £7.40

                                           Rent                                                 £127.02

Total cost pp/wk                                                                      £205.17

 

Additional payment (via prepaid card)                                 £40.85

Each illegal asylum arrival in the UK therefore receives up to £246.02 per week from government funds, even after their asylum claim has been rejected.

Conversely:

The full new State Pension is £185.15 per week. The actual amount you get depends on your National Insurance record.(Source: https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/what-youll-get#:~:text=The%20full%20new%20State%20Pension,amount%20of%20Additional%20State%20Pension)

So, the British government spends, on average, £60.90 more per week on illegal asylum seekers than on their own people who have contributed NIC payments for decades.

Does that satisfy your desire for details?

Flint 1. — Liverpool Lou. 0

[chilly07]

8 hours ago, itsari said:

.6 billion pounds would be the cost if all pensioners living in countries that do not have reciprocal agreements with the UK were paid the yearly increase .

Not for only UK pensioners living in Thailand as the headline attempts to say .

Thailand pensioners would cost about 6m gbp- drop in the ocean! UK government wasted vastly more than this on PPE and Test and trace as rushed to give contracts to their cronies all of whom took the money and ran.

[Kalasin Jo]

This is reporting a DWP official response to a Parliamentary Petition to end this injustice, which is piecemeal and punitive. The £0.6 billion sounds huge but is a drop in the ocean of UK government spend according to its own figures. In total £1,096.4 billion. It spends £193.5 billion on healthcare and social services which I believe includes state pension payments. So the uptick to what is morally right, rather than its historical minimum legal obligation, of £0.6 billion would take that specific spend to £ 194.1 billion. UK Governments have been spending more on vanity projects.

The Tory government has been in power for over 10 years now and has presided over ever decreasing real value of benefits and infrastructure. It wants those in poverty in the UK brought to their knees and has no interest in its pensioners living abroad getting in some cases as little as £40 pw.

 

But there is a campaign to change this " frozen " pensions scandal. There is a parliamentary cross party committee set up to consider it.

 

Soon, in 2023, British expats should have a UK GE vote again, probably in your last constituency. Use it.  Write to that MP now, even if Tory, asking for action. Happy to share by pm my email letter to " my" MP sent when I saw this DWP response.

 

Regards to my fellow Brits

[chilly07]

27 minutes ago, Funkymover said:

so you can if you live in the Philippines, but not in Thailand,,   so does it cost them less in the Philippines than it would in Thailand,,, why one country but not another ?

Because the UK was desperate for doctors nurses teachers so had to give reciprocal pensions

[itsari]

The UK started the present policy with UK pensioners abroad  in 1948 . Reason given was that many of the pensioners had not earned many pension rights at that time . 

Times have changed since then . 

 

 

[Bim Smith]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The increases are not "what is due" in Thailand, you already get what is due, i.e.  the state pension that you are paid.       

I am not sure if you're aware but the country is bankrupt and there is no pension pot but pension commitments. The pot is empty and spent a long time ago. It's a pomzi scheme and the current pensions are paid by current NI contributions. If there was a pot like private pensions they are invested and increases are paid by the investments. It's a scam.