Indian tourist says he was physically assaulted by a group of security guards at a Walking Street disco in Pattaya

[Leaver]

47 minutes ago, kinyara said:

When there is a relevant thread when the Chinese return I'd like to see what factual statistical data you can produce to back up your narrative.

 

Who knows when the Chinese will be ALLOWED  to return.  It's looking like covid is not playing a part in that decision in China any more. 

 

An old article, but it gives an insight into the extent of Chinese operations in Thailand.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/bargains-offered-at-amlo-chinese-tour-company-seized-assets-sell-off-58961.php

 

33 boats and 57 buses on Phuket, alone. 

 

Of course, authorities eventually gave up on enforcement, and the Chinese tour groups operated with impunity. 

 

47 minutes ago, kinyara said:

By the way it is perfectly legal to repatriate profits to shareholders outside of Thailand, the company I worked for did so to their European parent company in the form of dividends, but there is a tax payable on such transactions.

 

I never suggested it was illegal.  I said it's basically "zero baht" to Thailand, hence the term, "zero baht tourists."  Like I said, "numbers go up, but money go down."

 

As I alluded to in another post, how does the Thai government tax a transaction made in Thailand, but the money is exchanged back in China?  Eg.  WeChat Pay.  

 

Say a Chinese tourists wants to buy a latex pillow in a latex shop owned by a Chinese company, and that company prefers a certain method of payment that's beneficial for the Chinese tourists, and for the Chinese company.  Good luck to the Thai government taxing that transaction.

 

On my last trip to Cambodia, which due to covid was some time ago, I saw WeChat Pay even being offered in casinos there. However, I haven't been to a Chinese owned latex shop in Thailand, but I would be surprised if such a payment method was not also offered here. 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Leaver

[kinyara]

An individual case news story is all very interesting but doesn't really register in the grand scheme of things. I want to understand what the impact of the things you mention is on the $17.1 billion that Chinese tourists spent in Thailand in 2019. For instance do you have any figures for how much of that figure was actually spent in Chinese owned companies. Of that spent in Chinese owned companies how much of that was free profit after the costs of goods and services were paid for in the wider Thai economy. Finally any idea how much of that profit was actually repatriated to China after the Thai registered company paid corporate income tax on profits and dividend tax.

[Leaver]

20 minutes ago, kinyara said:

An individual case news story is all very interesting but doesn't really register in the grand scheme of things.

 

Hardly "individual." 

 

Tourists have been scammed, overcharged, ripped off, dual pricing, bill padded, beaten up, no meters in taxis, extorted, had the price changed on them etc etc etc etc for decades. 

 

23 minutes ago, kinyara said:

I want to understand what the impact of the things you mention is on the $17.1 billion that Chinese tourists spent in Thailand in 2019. For instance do you have any figures for how much of that figure was actually spent in Chinese owned companies.

 

There was a reason the AMLO went after these Chinese companies.  Geez, do you think the Thai government realized there was a problem? 

 

"Zero baht tourists" was all over the news back then.  Do you think it just went away and disappeared?  Or, are you suggesting it was all a myth, or fake news?

 

I posted a link of just one auction of just some of the assets.  Many boats and buses, and that was the tip of the iceberg, back then.  How much worse did it get by 2019?

 

I don't have a dollar figure for you, but if you can't see the extent to which the Chinese tour companies are operating in Thailand, then I can't help you. 

 

Once again, the fake temple they built shows the lengths they will go to in order to cut out the Thai's getting any money out of the the Chinese tourists they bring in.

 

29 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Of that spent in Chinese owned companies how much of that was free profit after the costs of goods and services were paid for in the wider Thai economy.

 

I accept the Thai agriculture sector sees some demand, and good luck to Thai farmers. 

 

Water, electric, and gasoline taxes also make money.

 

Employment, some, but the lower paid workers could very well be mainly Burmese, Cambodian etc, so not much for Thailand there. 

 

 

33 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Finally any idea how much of that profit was actually repatriated to China after the Thai registered company paid corporate income tax on profits and dividend tax.

 

Once again, I have no link for dollar values.  In my opinion, Thailand would be embarrassed about what was happening here with Chinese tourism in 2019.  Certainly, a cause for loss of face.  

 

As I have said, Thailand wanted the Chinese, and Thailand got the Chinese, but that doesn't mean they got all of the Chinese money, as they did with the western market in the past. 

 

[kinyara]

So to summarise, the key factual points are :

 

1) Thailand wasn't falling out of favour with foreign tourists pre-Covid, both visitor numbers and revenue were at record highs in 2019.

2) The traditional Western markets weren't falling off a cliff, visitors from those markets rose from 6.4m in 2015 to 7.0m in 2019, 92k short of the 2018 all time high. Strength of the 2 biggest markets, the US and UK markets, is particularly noted.

3) Chinese tourists who in 2019 made up 27% of total tourist numbers and 28% of total revenue spent a record $17.1 billion in Thailand. This group is made up of a mix of FIT's, ( Free Independent Travellers ), and organised tours, the Thai Minister of Tourism put the mix at 60-40 back in 2016.

4) We do not know the extent to which the $17.1 billion spend figure is impacted by the fraction of the organised tour market, 40% of the total back in 2016, (see above), that is subjected to the practice of zero baht tours. Thailand launched a crackdown back in 2016 when it realised it was losing out, it persists we just don't know to what extent. Could be even more scrutiny of this angle by a government desperate for a recovery in the Chinese market.

 

Let's see how tourism pans out from the post 2019 reset. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by kinyara

[BritManToo]

On 5/30/2022 at 6:42 AM, bbko said:

What is it with Indians in Pattaya making news headlines every few days?

They're the only tourists there.

[kinyara]

Just now, BritManToo said:

They're the only tourists there.

Re the other thread,I think they need to recruit some Indians into the Foreign Police Volunteers pronto to assist their brothers.

[steven100]

an Indian tourist pumping his rental car down Soi 16 at 3.30am almost colliding into a bunch of security thugs at the disco ......

what could possibly go wrong    !!!

[mikebell]

13 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

I have never found the Thais to be like that. Mind you I dont hang around the bars so that could be why I never see it

So your experience is incomplete.

[mikebell]

13 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

I have never found the Thais to be like that. Mind you I dont hang around the bars so that could be why I never see it

Today -

'The announcement shows a continuation of the long-standing dual pricing policy with foreigners being asked to pay higher fees, in this case, five times those asked of Thai people.'

[Yellowtail]

9 hours ago, mikebell said:

Today -

'The announcement shows a continuation of the long-standing dual pricing policy with foreigners being asked to pay higher fees, in this case, five times those asked of Thai people.'

Dual pricing is common in the US as well, and we all know how racist they are. 

[Leaver]

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

Thailand wasn't falling out of favour with foreign tourists pre-Covid, both visitor numbers and revenue were at record highs in 2019.

 

Western tourists. 

 

I have always said the numbers were up, just not the money. 

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

The traditional Western markets weren't falling off a cliff,

 

Never said they did.  They were in decline.

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

visitors from those markets rose from 6.4m in 2015 to 7.0m in 2019, 92k short of the 2018 all time high. Strength of the 2 biggest markets, the US and UK markets, is particularly noted.

 

Some western markets gained, some lost. Why did Thailand lose some demographics, and if they were losing some, could they lose more?

 

What did Thailand do to turn around those losses? 

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

Chinese tourists who in 2019 made up 27% of total tourist numbers and 28% of total revenue spent a record $17.1 billion in Thailand.

 

With most of the money being repatriated back to China.  Your figures don't address zero baht tourism.

 

I didn't make up the term zero baht tourism.  You you deny it exists?

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

This group is made up of a mix of FIT's, ( Free Independent Travellers ), and organised tours, the Thai Minister of Tourism put the mix at 60-40 back in 2016.

 

I would seriously question those percentages.  One look at all the coach buses and it's hard to see Chinese FIT's getting close to equal numbers of organized tours.

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

We do not know the extent to which the $17.1 billion spend figure is impacted by the fraction of the organised tour market, 40% of the total back in 2016, (see above), that is subjected to the practice of zero baht tours.

 

True, but why do you dismiss it completely? 

 

I have posted a link of a confiscated assets sale showing so many boats, buses etc, and that was just for Phuket.   

 

Also, how relevant is 2016 to 2019, when the whole zero baht tourism really was booming in Thailand?

 

Once again, just like TAT, you are looking at the big tourist numbers, but not seeing the biger picture of the money trail starting and ending in China, for the majority of those bigger tourist numbers. 

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

Thailand launched a crackdown back in 2016 when it realised it was losing out, it persists we just don't know to what extent.

 

They gave up.  It was too big to enforce, and they ran the risk of millions of Chinese going elsewhere.

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

Could be even more scrutiny of this angle by a government desperate for a recovery in the Chinese market.

 

Due to covid, it's a different game now. Who knows when the Chinese will be allowed to travel, and the Russians will not be back anytime soon.  It could be years before Thailand sees its biggest tourist market, pre covid, return. 

 

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

Let's see how tourism pans out from the post 2019 reset. 

 

Hospitality establishments were struggling pre covid.  I started a thread about closing bars and restaurants.  You are looking to a "reset" but what has changed in Pattaya to cause a reset?  Those that stopped coming to Pattaya in 2019 have no reason to come back to Pattaya, post covid.  Perhaps they have found greener pastures. 

 

So, covid aside, what has changed in Pattaya to lure back those lost in 2019?  They still can't even build decent side walks here. 

 

The 2019 / 20 high season was the quietest I have ever seen.  For how long can covid be blamed, before Thailand addresses it tourism industry issues?  

[kinyara]

Reason for edit - Muppet

Edited June 6, 2022 by kinyara
Muppett