China losing, US gaining crucial ground in Thailand

[webfact]

Thai Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha is shifting his diplomacy towards the US from China. Image: Twitter

 

Thai-China relations are in quiet but certain decline while US reaffirms its strategic and economic commitment to the kingdom

 

By SHAWN W. CRISPIN

 

BANGKOK – When Thai Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai returned one late April evening from a high-level meeting in Anhui, China, the top Thai envoy was greeted at Bangkok’s airport by an unexpected host: Beijing’s ambassador to Thailand Han Zhiqiang.

 

The diplomatic role reversal, where China’s envoy welcomed the kingdom’s foreign minister on Thai soil, sent what one Thai government insider saw as a clear and strong signal: That Beijing would be watching closely the Thai government’s next moves after Don’s discussions in China.

 

In Anhui, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi pressed Don for faster progress on a long-slow-moving train project designed to link Thailand to China via Laos, where Beijing recently finished a high-speed line that without Thai connectivity represents a Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) white elephant dead-end in Southeast Asia, the insider said in recounting the talks.

 

Full story: https://asiatimes.com/2022/06/china-losing-us-gaining-crucial-ground-in-thailand/

 

-- © Copyright ASIA TIMES 2022-06-10

 

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[StayinThailand2much]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Thai-China relations are in quiet but certain decline while US reaffirms its strategic and economic commitment to the kingdom

Wishful thinking?

[zzaa09]

A competition, is it.....?

Isn't that lovely.

[RichardColeman]

Relations I guess are based on a tourism 'swingometer'. The better the relations = the higher tourists sent !

 

Will swing back to China again when the billion chinese tourists come back next year

[smutcakes]

I dont particularly trust the yanks, but christ they are better than the Chinese. This article, especially the bits about debt/equity swaps for infrastructure should of been ringing alarm bells in Government long ago- it was ringing alarm bells for any sensible observer, you did not need to have top secret state information to see the issue.

Pile that on Africa and more recently whats happening in Sri Lanka. It seems the only people who did not forsee the issue are those paid to do so or those  in Government/military getting their pockets filled who will be long dead by the time the chickens come home to roost.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Relations I guess are based on a tourism 'swingometer'. The better the relations = the higher tourists sent !

 

Will swing back to China again when the billion chinese tourists come back next year

Probably swing back to China a lot sooner, like after the true numbers of Indian tourists is proven to be a(nother) busted flush.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

I dont particularly trust the yanks, but christ they are better than the Chinese. This article, especially the bits about debt/equity swaps for infrastructure should of been ringing alarm bells in Government long ago- it was ringing alarm bells for any sensible observer, you did not need to have top secret state information to see the issue.

Pile that on Africa and more recently whats happening in Sri Lanka. It seems the only people who did not forsee the issue are those paid to do so or those  in Government/military getting their pockets filled who will be long dead by the time the chickens come home to roost.

Sri Lanka economic crisis which is the worst since gaining independence was due to the pandemic which deprieved them of tourism revenues, rising energy prices and populist tax cuts. Never mind, it is so convenient to blame China. 

[smutcakes]

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Sri Lanka economic crisis which is the worst since gaining independence was due to the pandemic which deprieved them of tourism revenues, rising energy prices and populist tax cuts. Never mind, it is so convenient to blame China. 

Of course, i did not mean the whole situation in Sri Lanka was China's fault, there are many contributing factors.... but i am sure over the past decades where China has been loaning very heavily to Sri Lanka, they were well aware that the ability to repay those loans was doubtful even without the crisis.

[JonnyF]

Thailand is turning to the teet of the USA while China is busy chasing zero Covid.

 

It won't last long though. They'll be doffing the cap to China as soon as they are back on their feet and dumping the US like a hot potato.

 

The current regime has much more in common with the leaders of the CCP than they do with the Americans.

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

When Thai Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai returned one late April evening from a high-level meeting in Anhui, China, the top Thai envoy was greeted at Bangkok’s airport by an unexpected host: Beijing’s ambassador to Thailand Han Zhiqiang

Thailand getting the squeeze from the two giants.
Piggy in the middle.

Allow Xi to build his southern route through Thailand and slowly move in to take over like he is in Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar, or allow USA to keep trade sweet but with some strings attached..

[Nabby]

China has nothing to offer any country and any Chinese projects taking place in any developing country are a result of bribing the people at the top. Thankfully, Xi has been collecting and tearing up Chinese citizens' passports and stopped issuing new ones. Hopefully we'll never see the wretched Chinese hordes again. 

[KhunLA]

I'm not seeing that at all, except probably some kissing up for $$$, then ignore anything agreed to.

 

Thailand need China, and has no use for USA, except funding for whatever.  

[malibukid]

36 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Thailand getting the squeeze from the two giants.
Piggy in the middle.

Allow Xi to build his southern route through Thailand and slowly move in to take over like he is in Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar, or allow USA to keep trade sweet but with some strings attached..

and casinos coming soon to a neighbored near you

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Sri Lanka economic crisis which is the worst since gaining independence was due to the pandemic which deprieved them of tourism revenues, rising energy prices and populist tax cuts. Never mind, it is so convenient to blame China. 

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this?

How China Got Sri Lanka to Cough Up a Port

Every time Sri Lanka’s president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, turned to his Chinese allies for loans and assistance with an ambitious port project, the answer was yes.

Yes, though feasibility studies said the port wouldn’t work. Yes, though other frequent lenders like India had refused...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html

 

China has no qualms - in fact prefers - doing deals with corrupt governments that allow it to gain a physical foothold in those nations. In Sri Lanka, the people China did its dirty deal with have now been deposed due their having driving Sri Lanka into bankruptcy. With the help of unscrupulous partners like the Chinese govt.

[BE88]

There are several Chinese companies in charge of building the double-track road from the north to the south of Thailand, but China has been prevented from returning to work in Thailand due to Covid for over two years.

 

Where is the problem really?

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this?

How China Got Sri Lanka to Cough Up a Port

Every time Sri Lanka’s president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, turned to his Chinese allies for loans and assistance with an ambitious port project, the answer was yes.

Yes, though feasibility studies said the port wouldn’t work. Yes, though other frequent lenders like India had refused...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html

 

China has no qualms - in fact prefers - doing deals with corrupt governments that allow it to gain a physical foothold in those nations. In Sri Lanka, the people China did its dirty deal with have now been deposed due their having driving Sri Lanka into bankruptcy. With the help of unscrupulous partners like the Chinese govt.

India counters China in Sri Lanka with a $700 million port deal. In fact the new port is next to the Chinese run port. Hardly fit your narrative implying that port in Sri Lanka doesn't work as regards to India. 

[spidermike007]

Anything is going to be considered an improvement over the Trump administration foreign policy, and the "go it alone, extreme isolationism of Pompeo", and his band of village idiots. If this is true, it is smart policy. The US needs to do anything in it's power to counter the extremely toxic and highly dangerous CCP. 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by spidermike007

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

India counters China in Sri Lanka with a $700 million port deal. In fact the new port is next to the Chinese run port. Hardly fit your narrative implying that port in Sri Lanka doesn't work as regards to India. 

"Hardly fit your narrative implying that port in Sri Lanka doesn't work as regards to India. "

I'm not sure what this means. If you mean that India building a port in Sri Lanka proves that China didn't do a dirty deal, that's nonsense. Before that Chinese funded this misadventure, India turned it down because it made no economic sense. But now that China has acquired a foothold in Sri Lanka by dealing with the corrupt Rajapaksas, it has become a security issue.

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Hardly fit your narrative implying that port in Sri Lanka doesn't work as regards to India. "

I'm not sure what this means. If you mean that India building a port in Sri Lanka proves that China didn't do a dirty deal, that's nonsense. Before that Chinese funded this misadventure, India turned it down because it made no economic sense. But now that China has acquired a foothold in Sri Lanka by dealing with the corrupt Rajapaksas, it has become a security issue.

How is that a China dirty deal. I not sure what you meant by that. The Hambantontota Port was the brainchild of former President Mahinda Rajapaksa who had this grandeur vision of reviving his home region and main political base along with big infrastructure initiatives such as an international airport, convention center and highway extension. it was an ambitious project riddled with much doubt and sceptism. Corrupt? Certainly was but what that got to do with China who snapped upon the opportunity to invest. Shouldn;t that be Rajapaksa's dirty and corrupt deal. 

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

How is that a China dirty deal. I not sure what you meant by that. The Hambantontota Port was the brainchild of former President Mahinda Rajapaksa who had this grandeur vision of reviving his home region and main political base along with big infrastructure initiatives such as an international airport, convention center and highway extension. it was an ambitious project riddled with much doubt and sceptism. Corrupt? Certainly was but what that got to do with China who snapped upon the opportunity to invest. Shouldn;t that be Rajapaksa's dirty and corrupt deal. 

What honest reason would China have to support a deal that was so obviously going to fail and impose a huge burden on the government and people of Sri Lanka? Why didn't it apply the normal standards of evaluating whether an investment is sound and a benefit for both lender and lendee? You seem to believe that predatory lending is morally ok.

Edited June 10, 2022 by placeholder

[Mavideol]

was wondering when the clown will quit the circus

[Eric Loh]

25 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

How is that a China dirty deal. I not sure what you meant by that. The Hambantontota Port was the brainchild of former President Mahinda Rajapaksa who had this grandeur vision of reviving his home region and main political base along with big infrastructure initiatives such as an international airport, convention center and highway extension. it was an ambitious project riddled with much doubt and sceptism. Corrupt? Certainly was but what that got to do with China who snapped upon the opportunity to invest. Shouldn;t that be Rajapaksa's dirty and corrupt deal. 

You knew it all along. 

[billd766]

8 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Sri Lanka economic crisis which is the worst since gaining independence was due to the pandemic which deprieved them of tourism revenues, rising energy prices and populist tax cuts. Never mind, it is so convenient to blame China. 

Well there is this.

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Sri-Lanka-crisis/Sri-Lanka-meltdown-exposes-China-loan-policy-5-things-to-know

 

and this

https://thediplomat.com/2022/05/china-becomes-wild-card-in-sri-lankas-debt-crisis/

 

and this

https://www.voanews.com/a/china-s-global-image-under-strain-as-sri-lanka-faces-debt-trap-/6544106.html

 

or this

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/china-wild-card-sri-lankas-debt-crisis-84851676

 

even this

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/china-to-provide-300-mn-yuan-loan-to-sri-lanka-amid-economic-crisis-122050300998_1.html

 

or this

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/4/12/sri-lanka-hopeful-for-a-2-5bn-rescue-loan-from-china

 

However you are correct.

 

 Never mind, it is so convenient to blame China.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Well there is this.

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Sri-Lanka-crisis/Sri-Lanka-meltdown-exposes-China-loan-policy-5-things-to-know

 

and this

https://thediplomat.com/2022/05/china-becomes-wild-card-in-sri-lankas-debt-crisis/

 

and this

https://www.voanews.com/a/china-s-global-image-under-strain-as-sri-lanka-faces-debt-trap-/6544106.html

 

or this

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/china-wild-card-sri-lankas-debt-crisis-84851676

 

even this

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/china-to-provide-300-mn-yuan-loan-to-sri-lanka-amid-economic-crisis-122050300998_1.html

 

or this

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/4/12/sri-lanka-hopeful-for-a-2-5bn-rescue-loan-from-china

 

However you are correct.

 

 Never mind, it is so convenient to blame China.

 

 

China ownership of foreign ports concerns are overstated. Foreign owned ports are all over the world. Most ports in USA are foreign owned and 5 by China SOE. Singapore PSA and Hong Kong Hutchinson owned ports in foreign countries. Investments can go either way. Hindsight bias is convenient when you harbored prejudice. 

https://lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1130247/Chinese-ownership-of-foreign-ports-concerns-are-overstated

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

China ownership of foreign ports concerns are overstated. Foreign owned ports are all over the world. Most ports in USA are foreign owned and 5 by China SOE. Singapore PSA and Hong Kong Hutchinson owned ports in foreign countries. Investments can go either way. Hindsight bias is convenient when you harbored prejudice. 

https://lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1130247/Chinese-ownership-of-foreign-ports-concerns-are-overstated

Where did I show that I was biased and prejudiced?

 

I merely responded to your post.

 

The links were NOT about the ownership of whichever port is owned by whoever. It was about Chinese "loans".

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

China ownership of foreign ports concerns are overstated. Foreign owned ports are all over the world. Most ports in USA are foreign owned and 5 by China SOE. Singapore PSA and Hong Kong Hutchinson owned ports in foreign countries. Investments can go either way. Hindsight bias is convenient when you harbored prejudice. 

https://lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1130247/Chinese-ownership-of-foreign-ports-concerns-are-overstated

But the difference is, the port that the Chinese acquired made no commercial sense. What's more it also got control of 15,000 acres (60 square kilometers) around the port. This was never a business venture. It was designed to give China a base along a vital maritime highway and only a few hundred miles from rival India. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by placeholder

[garyk]

The US is in the beginning of the greatest depression in our life time IMO. Asia and Europe are not over inflated like the US market. 

The consensus is the markets in the emerging markets are not over inflated like America. 

The US will not help Thailand what so ever, it will doing good to lick it's on wounds for the next few years.

Thailand allies with the one that can push the most wealth their way. US , China? both are fixing to be pulling back for the next few years.

Personally I don't know how Thailand will cope. 

So, a stupid article at best.

Edited June 10, 2022 by garyk

[gearbox]

12 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Of course, i did not mean the whole situation in Sri Lanka was China's fault, there are many contributing factors.... but i am sure over the past decades where China has been loaning very heavily to Sri Lanka, they were well aware that the ability to repay those loans was doubtful even without the crisis.

China holds only 10% of the Sri Lanka's debt. The well known IMF parasites and their offshoots are lurking there. They built a port and other stuff with the Chinese 10%, what the other 90% of the other lenders were used for?

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-19/pimco-blackrock-set-to-start-debt-talks-soon-with-sri-lanka

[Eric Loh]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Where did I show that I was biased and prejudiced?

 

I merely responded to your post.

 

The links were NOT about the ownership of whichever port is owned by whoever. It was about Chinese "loans".

I wasn’t referring to you mate. 
 

As for the Chinese loan to Sri Lanka, following extract from your link well worth a read. 

 

“While Sri Lanka is being made the poster child of falling into the Chinese debt trap, where it is largely perceived that the nation’s sovereignty and geo-political space is compromised, the latest insights by Verité Research narrate a different story," the think tank said in an article posted on its website. "Of Sri Lanka’s total external debt, Verité Research identifies that less than 15 percent is from China."

[smutcakes]

15 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

China ownership of foreign ports concerns are overstated. Foreign owned ports are all over the world. Most ports in USA are foreign owned and 5 by China SOE. Singapore PSA and Hong Kong Hutchinson owned ports in foreign countries. Investments can go either way. Hindsight bias is convenient when you harbored prejudice. 

https://lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1130247/Chinese-ownership-of-foreign-ports-concerns-are-overstated

Out of interest how many Chinese ports are owned by foregin companies?