Honda BR-V vs Suzuki XL7

[srowndedbyh2o]

Looking into buying a new vehicle. We don’t want something as large or expensive as a Toyota Fortuner or Mitsubishi Pajero, but would like something more ‘substantial’ than a Toyota Yaris, Suzuki Swift or Honda Jazz.

The Honda BR-V and Suzuki XL7 look to fill the bill.

If we went with the Honda BR-V we would probably go with the 5 seater option to bring the price down a bit as we would rarely, if ever need the 3rd-row seats. If we went with the Suzuki XL7 we’d probably leave the 3rd-row seats folded down, but would have the option of using them if ever needed.

Any thoughts/opinions on either brand/model?

Honda BR-V: THB 765,000

Suzuki XL7: THB 799,000

Thanks

[HauptmannUK]

I think the BRV is a nicer car and likely a little more solidly built than the Suzuki.  The current BRV uses the L-series 1.5 and CVT gearbox from the previous generation Jazz. Well proven and parts available everywhere.

The XL7 is based on the Ertiga and uses the K-series engine which is also very well proven.  However the Suzuki uses a conventional four speed auto.

Bear in mind that a completely new BRV went into production in Indonesia earlier this year. No idea of Thai price or availability - but you should enquire...

[Jitar]

Haupmann rasies a good point.  The following article predicts the new BRV in Aug this year: https://www.wapcar.my/news/allnew-2022-honda-brv-spied-in-thailand-to-be-launched-in-the-kingdom-in-august-46928

 

Have you considered the Mitsubishi Expander?  

[srowndedbyh2o]

3 hours ago, Jitar said:

Have you considered the Mitsubishi Expander? 

The Mitsubishi is  actually my third choice, but thought I'd leave my post at the two and see what feedback I get.

Thank you.

[srowndedbyh2o]

12 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

Bear in mind that a completely new BRV went into production in Indonesia earlier this year. No idea of Thai price or availability - but you should enquire...

Thank you. I'll do some more research. Not in any rush to buy right away, but I do keep spending money on rentals ????

[DavisH]

10 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Thank you. I'll do some more research. Not in any rush to buy right away, but I do keep spending money on rentals ????

Do you need a mini mpv like these? How about a nissan almera honda city? They are quite large in size, more fuel efficient, better performance and cheaper than either of the suzuki or the brv. 

[HauptmannUK]

27 minutes ago, DavisH said:

Do you need a mini mpv like these? How about a nissan almera honda city? They are quite large in size, more fuel efficient, better performance and cheaper than either of the suzuki or the brv. 

Its true that these mini-MPVs have quite a small footprint. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because a vehicle is taller its a lot more spacious.

The Almera and City are comparatively spacious but bear in mind that they both use turbo'd 1.0 three-cylinder engines. I am not a fan of these. The P10A 1.0 used in the Honda uses cambelt-in-oil and electronically-controlled oil pump and thermostat. My experience in the UK is that these engines run very hot - not much room for error. They are also a bit 'thrummy' at lower RPM due to significant engine imbalance. No denying they have good economy and power to weight ratio though.

[srowndedbyh2o]

11 hours ago, DavisH said:

Do you need a mini mpv like these? How about a nissan almera honda city? They are quite large in size, more fuel efficient, better performance and cheaper than either of the suzuki or the brv.

Thanks. I spend a bit of time out in the country and wanted a vehicle with a little more ground clearance and that could handle a bit of driving on dirt and/or not so great roads. Also would like a vehicle that’s a little more ‘boxy’ shaped with more height inside the back when the seats are folded down or removed.

Back in the U.S. I had a Honda Element for many years. It looked really small on the outside, but inside there was tons of room, and it was built like a truck. Very solid vehicle. Wish I could have brought it to Thailand!

[Tuvoc]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:29 PM, HauptmannUK said:

However the Suzuki uses a conventional four speed auto.

That to me is a big plus. I'm very wary of CVT transmissions and the durability of them.

[Tuvoc]

On 6/11/2022 at 3:13 AM, Jitar said:

Have you considered the Mitsubishi Expander?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to my eyes - how could anyone possibly make a car so ugly ?

[DavisH]

On 6/17/2022 at 9:53 AM, Tuvoc said:

That to me is a big plus. I'm very wary of CVT transmissions and the durability of them.

The new swift uses a CVT (from the 2102 model, actually). There's no problem with them if you regularly change the CVT oil. I know a garage that services swifts - they have seen cr's with 300-400K on them. CVT is still fine. The steering rack goes long before the gearbox. We have a 2013 swift with 120K km on it. Everything is still fine. One needed to change the air cond evaporator. Even the brake pads are still the originals. It's an economical and reliable car but not built for performance. 

[Yellowtail]

If you live out in the county, you might think about a four-door pickup with automatic transmission. 

 

Cheaper, more room, diesel, plenty of ground clearance, more rugged

[Tuvoc]

3 hours ago, DavisH said:

The new swift uses a CVT (from the 2102 model, actually). There's no problem with them if you regularly change the CVT oil.

Is that part of the standard service schedules for the various manufacturers ?  We all know about "filled for life" where the manufacturer will never change unless asked, despite the fact that it is beneficial. What is their attitude on CVTs ?

[HauptmannUK]

On 6/17/2022 at 3:53 AM, Tuvoc said:

That to me is a big plus. I'm very wary of CVT transmissions and the durability of them.

CVTs make a great deal of sense on smaller cars. They are relatively compact and light, they have better power transfer efficiency than conventional autos, they can cover a wider range of gear ratios (typically 7:1) and, of course, the gear ratio is infinitely variable.

The Toyota CVTs (made by their Aisin subsidiary) seem to be extremely reliable. The K400 series used in the Yaris was introduced in 2004 and Aisin have refined it over the years so that it is now an extremely good transmission in all regards.

Honda make their own CVT and whilst older ones (up to about 2015) had occasional problems the latest ones also seem very good. I have a friend with a Honda that has 500k km on its original CVT.

Nissan, Mitsubishi and Suzuki all use the same 'CVT-7' (JF015E) made by Nissan's Jatco subsidiary. Jatco bought the original design rights from Fuji Heavy Industries (i.e. Subaru) about 25 years ago. The '7' refers to the fact that it is their 7th generation of CVT - which gives a clue that they have had problems.... Jatco have about half the world's CVT market and the JF015E is their most popular CVT, good for up to about 150bhp. About 15 million have been made.  I have rebuilt two JF015E's and in both cases the major fault was failure of the input shaft bearing. The Jatco box is smaller and lighter than Aisin's and you can see its a somewhat marginal design.

Bosch supply the belts to both Jatco and Honda and in June 2018 they started supplying redesigned belts using improved matrials. Jatco's made late 2018-on should be more robust than the earlier Jatcos.  On the JF015E there are two fluid filters - an internal mesh filter and an external cartridge filter.  We always change the cartridge filter when we change CVT fluid. Mitsubishi dealers (in the UK) don't list the filter so we buy from Suzuki or Nissan (its the same part). Use only genuine Nissan NS3 CVT fluid - do not use any of the cheaper 'universal' CVT fluids that are available.

I think the later Jatco CVTs should be fine in the little Nissans, Mitsubishis and Suzukis - they only deliver about 80-90bhp, which is well within the CVT's capacity.

For bulletproof reliability and best driving characteristics the Aisin (Toyota) CVT is probably the one to go for.

 

[KhunLA]

https://www.zigwheels.co.th/en/compare-cars/honda-br-v-vs-mitsubishi-xpander-vs-suzuki-xl7

[digbeth]

4 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

Is that part of the standard service schedules for the various manufacturers ?  We all know about "filled for life" where the manufacturer will never change unless asked, despite the fact that it is beneficial. What is their attitude on CVTs ?

Many that specify 'lifetime oil' will make you sign a disclaimer if you want to replace the 'for life' fluid it'll void the warranty

[srowndedbyh2o]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

https://www.zigwheels.co.th/en/compare-cars/honda-br-v-vs-mitsubishi-xpander-vs-suzuki-xl7

Thanks for posting the link. Info a bit dated, but still a great quick comparison chart.

[srowndedbyh2o]

I'm adding the Toyota Veloz to my list. Has a lot of perks for the price, and has the best (slightly) ground clearance of the list.  

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Thanks for posting the link. Info a bit dated, but still a great quick comparison chart.

Yes, need to verify, as they do get it wrong, or missing info occasionally.  But good starting point.

 

Nice to know most specs before even going to the dealers.  Seeing the numbers before counting 'cup holders' ????

[Yellowtail]

22 minutes ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

I'm adding the Toyota Veloz to my list. Has a lot of perks for the price, and has the best (slightly) ground clearance of the list.  

I saw one in red a while back and though it was good looking. 

 

Same platform as the Avanza (which I kind of liked), but I think maybe they quit marketing the Avanza here. 

[ignis]

18 minutes ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

I'm adding the Toyota Veloz to my list. Has a lot of perks for the price, and has the best (slightly) ground clearance of the list.  

Daihatsu Rocky with a Toyota Veloz badge ,,,,,,,,,,,, New replacement for the  Daihatsu Xenia called here Toyota Avanza ??        Toyota Daihatsu Engineering

[digbeth]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I saw one in red a while back and though it was good looking. 

 

Same platform as the Avanza (which I kind of liked), but I think maybe they quit marketing the Avanza here. 

I thought the Veloz has totally new platform, now front drive instead of rear live axle, but yeah it's a replacement for the Avanza alright but whereas the Avanza was pretty cheap at around 600,000 the Veloz is now starting shy of 800,000

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, digbeth said:

I thought the Veloz has totally new platform, now front drive instead of rear live axle, but yeah it's a replacement for the Avanza alright but whereas the Avanza was pretty cheap at around 600,000 the Veloz is now starting shy of 800,000

I do not think it's replacing the Avanza, I think the Avanza (on the "new" platform is still available in some markets. 

[digbeth]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not think it's replacing the Avanza, I think the Avanza (on the "new" platform is still available in some markets. 

I think the Veloz is just the posh highest trim level of the Avanza on the new front drive platform, 

[HauptmannUK]

Daihatsu Xenia was designed for the Indonesian market. Also sold as the Toyota Avanza and sold in 'emerging markets'.  Veloz is the top trim level of the Avanza but the name wasn't used Thailand.

New Xenia/Avanza is FWD and sold around the world - just called Veloz in Thailand, Avanza name seems to have been dropped in TH. I think its the Alza in Malaysia and Rumion (??) in South Africa.

[DavisH]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:00 PM, Tuvoc said:

Is that part of the standard service schedules for the various manufacturers ?  We all know about "filled for life" where the manufacturer will never change unless asked, despite the fact that it is beneficial. What is their attitude on CVTs ?

I'd have to check the users manual, but I think its every 40K kms for the swift but would need to double check that). The wife doesn't drive it a lot, but it was changed a couple of services ago.