U.S. Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, ending 50 years of federal abortion rights

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

The fact is, her being 10 years old is irrelevant. It adds to the emotionality of the situation, but adds nothing to the facts. 

 

If __xx__ -year-old get raped and becomes pregnant......... that person should have every right and opportunity to abort that pregnancy. The number you use to fill the blank......... is irrelevant!

 

Because at no age should a woman or girl be involuntarily sentenced to 9-months of physical and emotion punishment......... torture!....... because she was raped!  

If it's irrelevant as you say, why did biden focus on the 10 yr old? We know the answer but some aren't willing to acknowledge it. 

[Phoenix Rising]

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

If it's irrelevant as you say, why did biden focus on the 10 yr old? We know the answer but some aren't willing to acknowledge it. 

"If it's irrelevant as you say, why did biden focus on the 10 yr old?"

Because it really underscores the serious consequences of SCOTUS' (now dominated by hyper-religious liars) preposterous decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.

 

"We know the answer but some aren't willing to acknowledge it."

There you go, I gave you the answer and acknowledged it at the same time. 

You're welcome.

[Hanaguma]

I love the way lefties view this kind of thing. Even when a story is not true, it is still valid because it illustrates a GREATER truth... considering that in the entire WORLD, there have only been two documented cases of a 10 year old getting pregnant in the past 7 years. Yet one just pops up suddenly in the US, by amazing coincidence in a state with restrictive abortion laws, the same week the Supreme Court overturned Roe.  It really stretches credulity to the breaking point. 

[Credo]

59 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I love the way lefties view this kind of thing. Even when a story is not true, it is still valid because it illustrates a GREATER truth... considering that in the entire WORLD, there have only been two documented cases of a 10 year old getting pregnant in the past 7 years. Yet one just pops up suddenly in the US, by amazing coincidence in a state with restrictive abortion laws, the same week the Supreme Court overturned Roe.  It really stretches credulity to the breaking point. 

I love the way you right wingers view this kind of thing.  There is nothing to show this story is NOT true.  Unlike the sources used by the right, it does have a credible source, but one is apparently not enough for you.   

The article said that three days after the June 24 court ruling, an Indianapolis obstetrician-gynecologist, Caitlan Bernard, who performs abortions, received a call from “a child abuse doctor” in Ohio who had a 10-year-old patient who was six weeks and three days pregnant. Unable to obtain an abortion in Ohio, “the girl soon was on her way to Indiana to Bernard’s care,” the Star reported.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/one-source-story-about-10-year-old-an-abortion-goes-viral/

 

There is nothing to indicate the story is not true.  

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

If it's irrelevant as you say, why did biden focus on the 10 yr old? We know the answer but some aren't willing to acknowledge it. 

That's your focus? Trying to pick a hole in Biden's narrative. What is the statistical probability that a 10 year girls has never been raped and denied an abortion in the past or the probability that it will not occur in the future?

[Jingthing]

Here is my stab at an objective take on this. 

 

The white house should not have referred to this case before it was better confirmed.

 

It might be true or it might not be true.

 

Obviously they did use it because of the emotional power of talking about a raped 10 year old.

 

But the laws that were being objected to are the same regardless. 

 

The right wing plays this game of seeking possibly flawed details to destroy the other side.

 

But again the laws are in effect regardless of whether the story of this case is true or not and they are highly objectionable laws.

 

So the political process of the white house can be legitimately criticized but that's all. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Jingthing

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

I love the way you right wingers view this kind of thing.  There is nothing to show this story is NOT true.  Unlike the sources used by the right, it does have a credible source, but one is apparently not enough for you.   

The article said that three days after the June 24 court ruling, an Indianapolis obstetrician-gynecologist, Caitlan Bernard, who performs abortions, received a call from “a child abuse doctor” in Ohio who had a 10-year-old patient who was six weeks and three days pregnant. Unable to obtain an abortion in Ohio, “the girl soon was on her way to Indiana to Bernard’s care,” the Star reported.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/one-source-story-about-10-year-old-an-abortion-goes-viral/

 

There is nothing to indicate the story is not true.  

There is also nothing to indicate that it IS true either.  If it is true it is horrific. However the doctor, Caitlin Bernard, did not report the abortion to law enforcement, as is required by state law in Indiana. All cases of abortion on girls under 16 MUST be reported as cases of possible abuse within 3 days, and this did not happen. 

 

Without corroboration, this story cannot be believed. Given the statistics, the chances are that the story is, to put it charitably, grossly exaggerated and being used as a political football. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The right wing plays this game of seeking possibly flawed details to destroy the other side.

Some people just want the truth , if a person made a up a fake story about a ten years old girl being raped and impregnated, just to publicising their political views , that person needs to be exposed for the liar that he is  and held accountable for his deceit 

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

There is also nothing to indicate that it IS true either.  If it is true it is horrific. However the doctor, Caitlin Bernard, did not report the abortion to law enforcement, as is required by state law in Indiana. All cases of abortion on girls under 16 MUST be reported as cases of possible abuse within 3 days, and this did not happen. 

 

Without corroboration, this story cannot be believed. Given the statistics, the chances are that the story is, to put it charitably, grossly exaggerated and being used as a political football. 

Two doctors put their names to the story and it has been widely reported. You are clutching at straws rather than believe a story which is highly likely to be true and 100% likely to be true in the future, as it no doubt has been in the past, whether in that state or elsewhere.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I love the way lefties view this kind of thing. Even when a story is not true, it is still valid because it illustrates a GREATER truth... considering that in the entire WORLD, there have only been two documented cases of a 10 year old getting pregnant in the past 7 years. Yet one just pops up suddenly in the US, by amazing coincidence in a state with restrictive abortion laws, the same week the Supreme Court overturned Roe.  It really stretches credulity to the breaking point. 

At the link, which is to an article from the UN from 2013, there are some RADICALLY different findings............

 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2013/10/454182-motherhood-childhood-new-un-report-spotlights-adolescent-pregnancy#.VczdFPlVhur

 

In the article, it describes over 2 million pregancies of girls 14 and under.............. EACH YEAR!

 

Article -- "The State of World Population 2013, produced by the UN Population Fund (UNFPA), notes that out of the 7.3 million births, 2 million are to girls who are 14 or younger, many of whom suffer grave long-term health and social consequences from pregnancy such as obstetric fistula, and an estimated 70,000 adolescents in developing countries who die each year from complications during pregnancy and childbirth."

 

-----------

 

Unfortunately, they only break it down to 10 to 14. They don't break it down by individual ages within that range. (Possibly because a girl could be one age upon becoming pregnant......... and shown as "one year older" upon delivery. So, which age should be used?)

 

And yes, it is from just before the "past 7 years" you cited.

 

But you're going to have to present something incredibly substantial to prove that in a 7 year period when there were likely roughly 14 million 10 to 14 year old girls who got pregnant............ that only TWO of them were 10!

 

(Personally, I think if there were that few 10-year olds getting pregnant, they wouldn't even bother including that age in the range! They'd say 11 to 14 year olds! Therefore, I conclude there must be at least enough 10-year olds getting pregnant to be considered statistically significant.)

 

So, who is your source for this astounding claim? Cuz I couldn't find a source that showed either pregnancies or births for JUST 10-year olds. Everything I was able to find showed only a range: 10 to 13, or 10 to 14. (But they all DID include 10-year olds!)

Edited July 11, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Some people just want the truth , if a person made a up a fake story about a ten years old girl being raped and impregnated, just to publicising their political views , that person needs to be exposed for the liar that he is  and held accountable for his deceit 

If you've got the truth you're not posting the evidence, just casting aspersions on a story which doesn't suit your religious or political agenda.

Edited July 11, 2022 by ozimoron

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Some people just want the truth , if a person made a up a fake story about a ten years old girl being raped and impregnated, just to publicising their political views , that person needs to be exposed for the liar that he is  and held accountable for his deceit 

Biden didn't make it up.

Abortion laws are the issue here.

 

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I am in doubt that this story is true for reasons others have stated in this thread above , nothing at all do do with my beliefs .

  (I have no opinion about whether raped woman should have abortions or not )

No opinion about what matters.

[Scott]

Troll post and replies removed along with one member.  Keep it civil and stay on topic.  

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I love the way lefties view this kind of thing. Even when a story is not true, it is still valid because it illustrates a GREATER truth... considering that in the entire WORLD, there have only been two documented cases of a 10 year old getting pregnant in the past 7 years. Yet one just pops up suddenly in the US, by amazing coincidence in a state with restrictive abortion laws, the same week the Supreme Court overturned Roe.  It really stretches credulity to the breaking point. 

How do you feel about people who post lies as if they are facts?

 

It only took me a few minutes to find several stories of ten year olds getting pregnant in the last three years.

 

https://meaww.com/mother-10-year-old-pregnant-girl-allowed-man-take-turns-with-her-and-daughter-years-rapist-kansas

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-man-34-who-impregnated-10-year-old-girl-gets-over-100-years-in-prison

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12650949/pregnant-girl-10-gives-birth-raped-stepdad-baby-shower/

 

https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-08-18-10-year-old-pupils-among-23226-who-fell-pregnant-in-gauteng/

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I love the way lefties view this kind of thing. Even when a story is not true, it is still valid because it illustrates a GREATER truth... considering that in the entire WORLD, there have only been two documented cases of a 10 year old getting pregnant in the past 7 years. Yet one just pops up suddenly in the US, by amazing coincidence in a state with restrictive abortion laws, the same week the Supreme Court overturned Roe.  It really stretches credulity to the breaking point. 

A story that isn’t true illustrates a greater truth?!

 

That takes a rather peculiar logic, perhaps an Old Peculiar logic.

[Hanaguma]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Two doctors put their names to the story and it has been widely reported. You are clutching at straws rather than believe a story which is highly likely to be true and 100% likely to be true in the future, as it no doubt has been in the past, whether in that state or elsewhere.

Two doctors? I didn't know that- who is the second doctor?

[Hanaguma]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

How do you feel about people who post lies as if they are facts?

 

It only took me a few minutes to find several stories of ten year olds getting pregnant in the last three years.

 

https://meaww.com/mother-10-year-old-pregnant-girl-allowed-man-take-turns-with-her-and-daughter-years-rapist-kansas

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-man-34-who-impregnated-10-year-old-girl-gets-over-100-years-in-prison

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12650949/pregnant-girl-10-gives-birth-raped-stepdad-baby-shower/

 

https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-08-18-10-year-old-pupils-among-23226-who-fell-pregnant-in-gauteng/

My info was from Wikipedia, searching for cases of 10 year olds who gave birth.  In any case, it is a rather rare occurence.  Thank God.  

 

Any actual evidence that this crime happened in Ohio yet?

[Hanaguma]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No opinion about what matters.

My opinion is "yes, they should have access to abortion". 

 

Now your turn. Would you be in favor of restricting abortions to the first 15 weeks of pregnancy (given the usual  exceptions for rape/incest/life of mother)?

[Hanaguma]

Other points to consider re the Ohio case; the Ohio Attorney General says that his office hasn't heard a word about any case like the one in question. Also, the doctor who broke the story is a well known person in media circles and is often quoted by various outlets and used as a source. At least 5 times in the month before this story gained attention. As in so many situations, consider the source of the story when determining its veracity.

[Credo]

8 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

There is also nothing to indicate that it IS true either.  If it is true it is horrific. However the doctor, Caitlin Bernard, did not report the abortion to law enforcement, as is required by state law in Indiana. All cases of abortion on girls under 16 MUST be reported as cases of possible abuse within 3 days, and this did not happen. 

 

Without corroboration, this story cannot be believed. Given the statistics, the chances are that the story is, to put it charitably, grossly exaggerated and being used as a political football. 

You do not get to decide if it's an exaggeration or not.  It's been published and it has not been retracted.  

 

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, Credo said:

You do not get to decide if it's an exaggeration or not.  It's been published and it has not been retracted.  

 

Published in one local media outlet. Repeated by many others. That outlet is not answering questions or any requests for follow up information. There is no due diligence happening.  The only person in the story, Dr. Bernard, is not answering questions.  There is no corroboration by law enforcement or anyone on the Ohio side of things.  

 

Doesn't that make you just a tad sceptical?    I really do hope it is all a lie, spun as part of a political agenda by an activist doctor. The alternative is much worse.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Other points to consider re the Ohio case; the Ohio Attorney General says that his office hasn't heard a word about any case like the one in question. Also, the doctor who broke the story is a well known person in media circles and is often quoted by various outlets and used as a source. At least 5 times in the month before this story gained attention. As in so many situations, consider the source of the story when determining its veracity.

You're very keen to dismiss this story yet rape is the most under reported crime and only 12% of child sexual abuse is reported, just because there's no police report in this case does not mean it didn't happen and the issue being it highlights the complete injustice that can occur.

 

Personally I air on the side of caution on the possibility that it is true. To argue against something that could well have happened seems extremely immoral top me.

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

You're very keen to dismiss this story yet rape is the most under reported crime and only 12% of child sexual abuse is reported, just because there's no police report in this case does not mean it didn't happen and the issue being it highlights the complete injustice that can occur.

 

Personally I air on the side of caution on the possibility that it is true. To argue against something that could well have happened seems extremely immoral top me.

But you are forgetting that the two doctors involved, in two states, BOTH have a legal obligation to report both the rape and the abortion. Yet neither one did. You are right that child abuse is an under reported crime, but in most cases the victim isn't taken to a doctor, nor are they taken across state lines to another doctor, nor do they have abortions.  These are elements that must be documented legally by many people. Yet none were.

 

Note that all parties have gone silent as well. The publicity loving doctor, one would imagine, would be making the rounds of all the national media, telling her tale and that of her victim. Yet she is not. 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

But you are forgetting that the two doctors involved, in two states, BOTH have a legal obligation to report both the rape and the abortion. Yet neither one did. You are right that child abuse is an under reported crime, but in most cases the victim isn't taken to a doctor, nor are they taken across state lines to another doctor, nor do they have abortions.  These are elements that must be documented legally by many people. Yet none were.

 

Note that all parties have gone silent as well. The publicity loving doctor, one would imagine, would be making the rounds of all the national media, telling her tale and that of her victim. Yet she is not. 

I'm not forgetting anything, a doctor is obliged to report it to a local social welfare agency charged with protecting children, not the police.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

My info was from Wikipedia, searching for cases of 10 year olds who gave birth.  In any case, it is a rather rare occurence.  Thank God.  

 

Any actual evidence that this crime happened in Ohio yet?

I see.  You posted:

 

"considering that in the entire WORLD, there have only been two documented cases of a 10 year old getting pregnant in the past 7 years."

 

Apparently you assumed that every ten year old who got pregnant also gave birth.  Why did you assume that?

[Hanaguma]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I'm not forgetting anything, a doctor is obliged to report it to a local social welfare agency charged with protecting children, not the police.

Let's assume you are right. Did the doctor do so? Aren't you just a bit curious about that?  My hope is that the doctor did so if the crime happened, and that the rapist is killed.  Yet again, there is NO follow up. What does this tell you...

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Let's assume you are right. Did the doctor do so? Aren't you just a bit curious about that?  My hope is that the doctor did so if the crime happened, and that the rapist is killed.  Yet again, there is NO follow up. What does this tell you...

No not curious, I have no morbid fascination with delving into the details of what could be another horrible tragic crime against a minor. As far as I'm concerned this case true or not is a very good example of the injustice of this law.

[Hanaguma]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No not curious, I have no morbid fascination with delving into the details of what could be another horrible tragic crime against a minor. As far as I'm concerned this case true or not is a very good example of the injustice of this law.

I am just hoping to God that it IS a political hoax.  

[Hanaguma]

18 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I see.  You posted:

 

"considering that in the entire WORLD, there have only been two documented cases of a 10 year old getting pregnant in the past 7 years."

 

Apparently you assumed that every ten year old who got pregnant also gave birth.  Why did you assume that?

Because that was the information as found on WIkipedia. Not the best source of information to be sure, but one that is easy to find.

 

So what are YOUR stats on the number of 10 year olds who get pregnant? We can at least agree that it is vanishingly rare, thankfully.