U.S. approves $820 million military aid package for Ukraine; Russia says iron curtain is ‘already descending’

[Rimmer]

 

U.S. President Joe Biden has pledged to provide financial and military aid for as long as necessary to prevent Ukraine’s defeat, he told reporters at the conclusion of the NATO summit in Madrid.

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy thanked Ukrainian troops following Russia’s withdrawal from the strategic Snake Island in the Black Sea, which it captured in the early days of the war. Ukrainian forces say they drove the Russians out, while Moscow insists it was a voluntary act of goodwill.

 

Meanwhile, NATO states plan to send hundreds of thousands more troops to Eastern Europe to bolster the region’s security.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/01/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Now back to the real world and Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine that the US and multiple other countries are supplying aid to.

 

As for "We need to stop giving Zelenskyy the incentive to thumb his nose at Russia even more than he already has." I say, you need to take of those blinkers and see exactly who is the aggressor here.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Scott

[Hanaguma]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Now back to the real world and Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine that the US and multiple other countries are supplying aid to.

 

As for "We need to stop giving Zelenskyy the incentive to thumb his nose at Russia even more than he already has." I say, you need to take of those blinkers and see exactly who is the aggressor here.

Yes Russia is the aggressor, but so what?  How much blood and treasure do you think we should expend to prop up Zelenskyy?  How many boys would you like to see come home in body bags? I say zero.

 

Russia is not a global threat, at best they are a regional nuisance. And one that Europe should be easily able to handle if they truly wanted to. Instead, they addicted themselves to Putin's energy resources and have been turning a blind eye for years. 

 

Yet somehow when a problem arises, Uncle Sugar has to foot the bill. The US has given far more than the rest of the world combined. It has to end.  The $40 billion sent to push back on Putin has to come from somewhere- it's more money than NASA gets in a year!  

 

Not worth it.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Yes Russia is the aggressor, but so what?  How much blood and treasure do you think we should expend to prop up Zelenskyy?  How many boys would you like to see come home in body bags? I say zero.

 

Russia is not a global threat, at best they are a regional nuisance. And one that Europe should be easily able to handle if they truly wanted to. Instead, they addicted themselves to Putin's energy resources and have been turning a blind eye for years. 

 

Yet somehow when a problem arises, Uncle Sugar has to foot the bill. The US has given far more than the rest of the world combined. It has to end.  The $40 billion sent to push back on Putin has to come from somewhere- it's more money than NASA gets in a year!  

 

Not worth it.

So what? Is that your attitude to the war crimes going on? This is a small world and we are not propping up just Zelensky, Putin has already made it clear it does not end there with other sovereign nations in his sights. This is a fight for freedom, international law and to stop a genocide.

 

What boys are you referring to coming home in body bags? You mean the foreign legion who volunteered to fight out in Ukraine and who are made of many nationalities?

 

The relevant figure when comparing how much a country contributes to Ukraine is via its GDP and the US is nowhere near the top supplier. That 40 billion has also not been sent, it is part of a budget over some future months.

 

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

 

 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So what? Is that your attitude to the war crimes going on? This is a small world and we are not propping up just Zelensky, Putin has already made it clear it does not end there with other sovereign nations in his sights. This is a fight for freedom, international law and to stop a genocide.

 

What boys are you referring to coming home in body bags? You mean the foreign legion who volunteered to fight out in Ukraine and who are made of many nationalities?

 

The relevant figure when comparing how much a country contributes to Ukraine is via its GDP and the US is nowhere near the top supplier. That 40 billion has also not been sent, it is part of a budget over some future months.

 

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

 

 

To be frank, yes that is my attitude. A pity what is happening in Ukraine, but they aren't worth a single life of an American soldier. Maybe Zelensky shouldn't have been so cocky and should have sat down with Russia before everything kicked off. By the way, what is YOUR endgame- you support direct military involvement? US air force flying combat missions? 

 

Love your chart. It shows that, even in GDP terms, the major nations of Europe are slackers compared to the US.  So I ask you- where should the $40 billion come from? What government department should lose budget to send to Ukraine? 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

To be frank, yes that is my attitude. A pity what is happening in Ukraine, but they aren't worth a single life of an American soldier. Maybe Zelensky shouldn't have been so cocky and should have sat down with Russia before everything kicked off. By the way, what is YOUR endgame- you support direct military involvement? US air force flying combat missions? 

 

Love your chart. It shows that, even in GDP terms, the major nations of Europe are slackers compared to the US.  So I ask you- where should the $40 billion come from? What government department should lose budget to send to Ukraine? 

The few american soldiers out there don't care what you think or your attitude along with all the other international soldiers out there helping and doing so because they want to. 

 

You love the chart? Great because it completely disproves the claims you made. 

[Jingthing]

10 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I find it interesting that Biden can so easily pledge economic and military aid to defend the border of a country 10,000 km away, but he can't do the same to defend the border of the United States. 

 

We need to stop giving Zelenskyy the incentive to thumb his nose at Russia even more than he already has. Reach a settlement, calm down, and get the world back to normal. 

It's funny not ha ha funny how right wing Americans are so often so sympathetic to authoriatarian dictator war criminal Putin.

[Jingthing]

I fault Biden for not giving more and more advanced aid earlier.

[tgw]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I fault Biden for not giving more and more advanced aid earlier.

Even now, the aid remains limited.

Ukraine didn't receive any armaments with useful ranges of 500-1000Km.

 

Ukraine should be striking Russia's naval bases in Sevastopol and target the Kherch bridge, military infrastructure, but instead it's still David against Goliath.

 

Ukraine's artillery is outnumbered 1 to 15.

A good step up would be to send 5000 artillery to Ukraine.

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

The few american soldiers out there don't care what you think or your attitude along with all the other international soldiers out there helping and doing so because they want to. 

 

You love the chart? Great because it completely disproves the claims you made. 

Actually it doesn't. It shows that both in dollars and in GDP, the US is spending more to defend Ukraine than countries like the UK and Germany. Which is of course ridiculous.   I get that Putin has been made into some mythical boogeyman figure in the media, but reality is different. Whether or not Russia takes the Donbass or whatever other territory matters exactly zero to the big picture of the world. Russia has a GDP somewhere in the range of South Korea. The other Europeans should be able to handle the situation if they choose.

 

You want to find an actual enemy? A country that is worth worrying about? Try China.

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I fault Biden for not giving more and more advanced aid earlier.

Really? What advanced aid and how much?  How far are you prepared to go to defend the Ukraine- you ready to go to war if it looks like Russia will win? How will you pay for the aid you want to send?

 

These are questions you need to answer before you go off spouting meaningless platitudes and bromides.  Funny that the same thing didnt happen in 2015 when Putin took the Crimean region. Wonder why... perhaps because Putin has been used by the left and the media (but I repeat myself) as some sort of existential threat to America ever since Trump was elected.  A steady diet of Putin Putin Putin has caused derangement in a lot of people. You have spent the better part of 6 years building him up into some kind of Stalin 2.0 figure when he is really just a small man from a broken country with a small economy. He aint worth it. And neither is Ukraine.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

To be frank, yes that is my attitude. A pity what is happening in Ukraine, but they aren't worth a single life of an American soldier. Maybe Zelensky shouldn't have been so cocky and should have sat down with Russia before everything kicked off. By the way, what is YOUR endgame- you support direct military involvement? US air force flying combat missions? 

 

Love your chart. It shows that, even in GDP terms, the major nations of Europe are slackers compared to the US.  So I ask you- where should the $40 billion come from? What government department should lose budget to send to Ukraine? 

Why should that 40 billion have to be deducted from  other departments' budgets?

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Why should that 40 billion have to be deducted from  other departments' budgets?

IF not, then where will it come from? You then have two options- borrow it (probably from China) or increase the deficit. Which do you think is more acceptable? 

 

It is also $115 for every man woman and child in the USA. $400 per family. Now do you think most people would be happy giving up that $400 to aid Ukraine or would they rather have it to pay for their groceries?

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Really? What advanced aid and how much?  How far are you prepared to go to defend the Ukraine- you ready to go to war if it looks like Russia will win? How will you pay for the aid you want to send?

 

These are questions you need to answer before you go off spouting meaningless platitudes and bromides.  Funny that the same thing didnt happen in 2015 when Putin took the Crimean region. Wonder why... perhaps because Putin has been used by the left and the media (but I repeat myself) as some sort of existential threat to America ever since Trump was elected.  A steady diet of Putin Putin Putin has caused derangement in a lot of people. You have spent the better part of 6 years building him up into some kind of Stalin 2.0 figure when he is really just a small man from a broken country with a small economy. He aint worth it. And neither is Ukraine.

Boilerplate Trumpist rhetoric.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

IF not, then where will it come from? You then have two options- borrow it (probably from China) or increase the deficit. Which do you think is more acceptable? 

 

It is also $115 for every man woman and child in the USA. $400 per family. Now do you think most people would be happy giving up that $400 to aid Ukraine or would they rather have it to pay for their groceries?

Too funny!

Right wingers always forget about deficits when they are in control.

Witness the moronic massive tax cuts for the rich by Trump.

Then when they aren't they get their old timey religion deficit obsession

[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Well, since I am neither right wing nor American, your snide comment has as much weight as a popcorn fart. 

Doesn't matter. Your rhetoric reflects Trumpist Americans. Are you Russian or something? Can't keep track of everyone's nationality. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

Even now, the aid remains limited.

Ukraine didn't receive any armaments with useful ranges of 500-1000Km.

 

Ukraine should be striking Russia's naval bases in Sevastopol and target the Kherch bridge, military infrastructure, but instead it's still David against Goliath.

 

Ukraine's artillery is outnumbered 1 to 15.

A good step up would be to send 5000 artillery to Ukraine.

Ukraine needs to win.

Putin needs to lose.

The results have global consequence.

Luckily the US doesn't have an America First fascist isolationist as president now.

[Scott]

Troll posts reported and removed.  Continue with the off-topic nonsense and face a suspension.  

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

IF not, then where will it come from? You then have two options- borrow it (probably from China) or increase the deficit. Which do you think is more acceptable? 

 

It is also $115 for every man woman and child in the USA. $400 per family. Now do you think most people would be happy giving up that $400 to aid Ukraine or would they rather have it to pay for their groceries?

I think the polls have given us a very clear answer to that question.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Really? What advanced aid and how much?  How far are you prepared to go to defend the Ukraine- you ready to go to war if it looks like Russia will win? How will you pay for the aid you want to send?

 

These are questions you need to answer before you go off spouting meaningless platitudes and bromides.  Funny that the same thing didnt happen in 2015 when Putin took the Crimean region. Wonder why... perhaps because Putin has been used by the left and the media (but I repeat myself) as some sort of existential threat to America ever since Trump was elected.  A steady diet of Putin Putin Putin has caused derangement in a lot of people. You have spent the better part of 6 years building him up into some kind of Stalin 2.0 figure when he is really just a small man from a broken country with a small economy. He aint worth it. And neither is Ukraine.

Tell that to Finland,, Norway Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Georgia...

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Actually it doesn't. It shows that both in dollars and in GDP, the US is spending more to defend Ukraine than countries like the UK and Germany. Which is of course ridiculous.   I get that Putin has been made into some mythical boogeyman figure in the media, but reality is different. Whether or not Russia takes the Donbass or whatever other territory matters exactly zero to the big picture of the world. Russia has a GDP somewhere in the range of South Korea. The other Europeans should be able to handle the situation if they choose.

 

You want to find an actual enemy? A country that is worth worrying about? Try China.

Your claims were false, I pointed that out already, the US's contribution to military and humanitarian aid is fantastic but in terms of its GDP it is no where near the top countries supplying aid but why does that matter to you? It turns out now your not even American but stamp your feet saying the money is better spent on building the wall.............lol

 

I find your "I don't care" attitude to the real humanitarian suffering of the people of Ukraine disturbing but at least you finished off your post making me laugh with your suggestion, lets forget about Russia and go after China instead ????

 

Last night a Russian state official Adalbi Shkhagoshev stated that Russia rejects the notion of a rule-based world order and has been trying "to squeeze out the democratization"

 

Sorry its not going to happen

Edited July 3, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[steven100]

I say destroy Putin's  palaces .....   and then go after putin himself.   Wiping him out would likely stop the war immediately. 

I am surprised someone hasn't taken him out already .....   

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

I say destroy Putin's  palaces .....   and then go after putin himself.   Wiping him out would likely stop the war immediately. 

I am surprised someone hasn't taken him out already .....   

Targeting the leader of a foreign country is a declaration of war. If you want to escalate the situation, that is the perfect way to go about it. How would the US react if the Russians made an attempt on Biden's life? Not well I imagine. 

 

Plus, even if you DO manage to take out Putin without setting off World War 3, there is no guarantee that the next leader in Russia will be any better. Could very well be worse! That kind of warmongering is dangerous and ineffective.

[Hanaguma]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your claims were false, I pointed that out already, the US's contribution to military and humanitarian aid is fantastic but in terms of its GDP it is no where near the top countries supplying aid but why does that matter to you? It turns out now your not even American but stamp your feet saying the money is better spent on building the wall.............lol

 

I find your "I don't care" attitude to the real humanitarian suffering of the people of Ukraine disturbing but at least you finished off your post making me laugh with your suggestion, lets forget about Russia and go after China instead ????

 

Last night a Russian state official Adalbi Shkhagoshev stated that Russia rejects the notion of a rule-based world order and has been trying "to squeeze out the democratization"

 

Sorry its not going to happen

IF you look at your precious list you will see the nations at the top are all small and inconsequential. Of the MAJOR European countries on the list, they all spend less than the US. I don't think using Latvia as a standard has much merit.

 

I DO feel sorry for the Ukranian people, getting dragged into a conflict like this. By all means give to the Red Cross if you want. But like so many people who support the conflict, you don't have any idea of the end game. You have not said what price you are willing to pay to end the war, what constitutes 'winning', and so on. I say that Ukraine is worth zero lives and zero dollars, at least to my country and the US. How about YOU? What specifically are you willing to sacrifice to keep Ukraine out of Russian control? Answer that and I may take what you say seriously. 

[Hanaguma]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

Tell that to Finland,, Norway Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Georgia...

Those countries can all defend themselves, form an alliance if they want, or make peace with their big neighbour.  But Russia is not a global threat on any scale, particularly compared to China. 

 

Same question I have asked others- what price are you willing to pay to keep Russia out of Ukraine or any of those countries? Is it worth war? How many thousands of dead soldiers? How many billions of dollars? 

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I DO feel sorry for the Ukranian people, getting dragged into a conflict like this. 

Save your pity to someone who actually cares about you opinion & twisted logic

Edited July 3, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Hanaguma]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Save your pity to someone who actually cares about you opinion

...and still waiting to hear anything from you other than platitudes and fluff. Let's say the current $40 billion gets spent and the war rages on. You OK with spending ANOTHER $40 billion? Sending in troops? Starting a regional conflict?  You have yet to show any concrete proposal at all.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Those countries can all defend themselves, form an alliance if they want, or make peace with their big neighbour.  But Russia is not a global threat on any scale, particularly compared to China. 

 

Same question I have asked others- what price are you willing to pay to keep Russia out of Ukraine or any of those countries? Is it worth war? How many thousands of dead soldiers? How many billions of dollars? 

These countries already are in an alliance it's called NATO. Maybe you've heard of it?

As for how much to spend?Whatever it takes. Russia poses too great a threat to Europe to be ignored. It also sends a message to China.

 

[transam]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Those countries can all defend themselves, form an alliance if they want, or make peace with their big neighbour.  But Russia is not a global threat on any scale, particularly compared to China. 

 

Same question I have asked others- what price are you willing to pay to keep Russia out of Ukraine or any of those countries? Is it worth war? How many thousands of dead soldiers? How many billions of dollars? 

You sound worried it may cost you money, in fact your posts revolve around money instead of what is right.

Disgraceful, Jack... 

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

These countries already are in an alliance it's called NATO. Maybe you've heard of it?

As for how much to spend?Whatever it takes. Russia poses too great a threat to Europe to be ignored. It also sends a message to China.

 

Ukraine isnt in NATO. 

 

You are right that Russia poses a threat to Europe. So let Europe solve the problem. Thing is, they got too addicted to Russian energy to actually have any political heft. Russia, as I have said before, has an economy on par with South Korea in terms of GDP.  They can hardly be more than an annoyance.