10 year Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa to make living in Thailand “easier and less bureaucratic”

[mikebell]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

And yet you're here (I'm assuming)...so why should Thailand offer any special incentives to attract and retain people who are going to come and stay anyway? The goal is to attract others, especially HNW individuals who have a choice of where to live and invest and who are not basing this decision on their spouse/girlfriend. These people have to be given a reason to put Thailand on their list.

Yes I am here - I retired & came to live near my son who has a restaurant in Bangkok.  I stayed & put down roots.  I agree with your points above that there will still be folks who will come anyway but often the best publicity is Word of Mouth.  In 20 years I have had visits from lots of friends/relatives/workmates.  If I had presented a jaundiced view of Thailand they would have returned to UK & spread the news: Thailand is dirty; has packs of wild dogs; is racist; no police only highway robbers. With mass media at everyone's fingertips every stain on Thailand's reputation will be spread round the world.  

[Lacrimas]

3 hours ago, gearbox said:

Most of the people working online are freelancers working under some sort of incorporated umbrellas which won't satisfy the $150 mil corporate entity. Sure, there are pure remote workers working for global corporations directly as salaried employees, but they would be rare birds.

 

On top of that there is a master's degree requirement which will further cull the list of potential applicants.

 

Add to that also:

"At least 5 years of work experience in the relevant fields of the current employment over the past 10 years"

 

That sounds to me like technical expertise in some field, not vlogging or dropshipping.

 

As the OP mentions briefly "the details are very scarce". For many months all they were able to produce is 3 pages brochure.

Exactly, thanks for clarifying a very important matter to Thai gov simps they'd shove mud in their mouths and they would still eat it.

 

Also, they are planning to attract 1 million people and that's why it's pathetic. There's no chance they'll get that number. Make it people that earn 40k$ a year self employed or working for normal companies  and you will get that number while attracting people that make 10 times the average Somchai.

[James105]

9 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

Exactly, thanks for clarifying a very important matter to Thai gov simps they'd shove mud in their mouths and they would still eat it.

 

Also, they are planning to attract 1 million people and that's why it's pathetic. There's no chance they'll get that number. Make it people that earn 40k$ a year self employed or working for normal companies  and you will get that number while attracting people that make 10 times the average Somchai.

Clearly this visa was not designed with you in mind.   I am not sure why you are salty about it as they are not removing the other visa choices you already have.  This will be in addition to those visas so you have lost nothing here.    

 

Some of the comments on here remind me of this Ricky Gervais joke...

 

 

[WhatsNext]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:08 AM, ThailandRyan said:

A pensioner averaging $6,666 dollars a month for the $80k a year amount is considered wealthy for applying for the LTR. Anywhere else on the world they would be just getting by.  Do I qualify, sure, but how is an 80k pension considered wealthy. I guess when they look at it as over 200k Thb a month compared to the average Thai your rich beyond belief. Hello hansum man.    

I don't know where you are from, but in Europe this would be a fantastic pension. We don't have to pay crazy amounts for health care so that could be part of it, but 6,666 USD or it's current local equivalent is a lot of money for a pension. The government pension in one of the richest countries on this little spinning bal, the Netherlands, is 1261 Euro, at the moment that's 1.324 USD. But... we live in crazy times with the exchange rate, a more normal rate would make that 1513 USD

 

No where near even in the vicinity of 6,666 per month, again don't know where you coming from but not from reality apparently 

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, James105 said:

Right, so Thailand only wants to offer this visa to high skilled, high earning or already wealthy people.   As I said, this visa is not for everyone and it obviously isn't designed to be, in much the same way the over 50 visa is not designed for people under 50.   The people who are upset about this are those who are unskilled or just don't earn enough, but that's fine as there are other visas they can get which are designed for them.   

I'm not sure why you think I'm personally upset about it...I don't give a .... I'm here on retirement visa, easy to get. I work online from everywhere in the world and easily exceed their financial requirements and meet all the conditions except the 150 mil company. But if I'm below 50 and need long term visa I won't meet the requirements, my customers are large entities but pay invoices to my own company. Vast majority of people I know working remotely are getting paid in similar schemes, it would be rare direct employees to be paid while roaming around the world.

 

This visa class would have difficulties attracting enough people.

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 hours ago, mikebell said:

Thailand is dirty; has packs of wild dogs; is racist; no police only highway robbers

The Thailand you describe has not been my experience (20+ years in country at 3 places Bangkok, Pattaya, and now Phuket); but if it keeps some foreigners from moving here I won't complain. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, WhatsNext said:

I don't know where you are from, but in Europe this would be a fantastic pension. We don't have to pay crazy amounts for health care so that could be part of it, but 6,666 USD or it's current local equivalent is a lot of money for a pension. The government pension in one of the richest countries on this little spinning bal, the Netherlands, is 1261 Euro, at the moment that's 1.324 USD. But... we live in crazy times with the exchange rate, a more normal rate would make that 1513 USD

 

No where near even in the vicinity of 6,666 per month, again don't know where you coming from but not from reality apparently 

Are you talking a weekly pension or are your rates you list for the month.  Taking out for insurance and taxes from the pension I listed lands it at about 4k USD a month after all is said and done.  To live in the US on 4k a month and paying for your residence, utilities, food, gas etc... I am afraid that many pretty much break even. It is why upon retirement folks downsize to a smaller residence or move to another State where it might be cheaper. I do not qualify for SS either as my Defined Benefit pension precludes the ability to gain from SS without a penalty and I never paid into SS in the US my entire career.  Here in Thailand my pension goes about 3 times further than it would in the US, but being wealthy is far from the truth.  Not having to live day to day as many others do, I see your point, but as far as being considered wealthy, far from it.  Even if i did not reside in the US, I still have to pay taxes and so on to the State i retired from and the federal government.

Edited July 8, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[gearbox]

On 7/6/2022 at 3:18 AM, mikebell said:

Been here nearly 20 years; at nearly 80 it's probably come too late for me even if the bureaucracy could be circumvented.  I agree with the above poster Richard Coleman; retirees should be the bedrock on the Thai economic rebuild.  I have spent millions over the years on housing; educating step-daughters; cars; entertainment; restaurants etc.  Yet I am not allowed to own my own house or start up a business without yielding 51% to Thais.  

Talk about cake and eat it!  Thailand does not deserve people like me.

You will qualify easily for the new visa. Simple mathematics shows that if in 20 years you spent "millions", that would be at least 2 millions, divided by 20 makes $100k USD per year, comfortably exceeding the 80k required.

[gearbox]

9 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Are you talking a weekly pension or are your rates you list for the month.  Taking out for insurance and taxes from the pension I listed lands it at about 4k USD a month after all is said and done.  To live in the US on 4k a month and paying for your residence, utilities, food, gas etc... I am afraid that many pretty much break even. It is why upon retirement folks downsize to a smaller residence or move to another State where it might be cheaper. I do not qualify for SS either as my Defined Benefit pension precludes the ability to gain from SS without a penalty and I never paid into SS in the US my entire career.  Here in Thailand my pension goes about 3 times further than it would in the US, but being wealthy is far from the truth.  Not having to live day to day as many others do, I see your point, but as far as being considered wealthy, far from it.  Even if i did not reside in the US, I still have to pay taxes and so on to the State i retired from and the federal government.

Are defined benefit pensions taxed in the US? Seems harsh to me.

[WhatsNext]

13 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Are you talking a weekly pension or are your rates you list for the month.  

Per month of course, don't forget you come from the USA where the wages are a lot higher than anywhere else. But in many European countries the health is already taken care of and rents are a lot lower than in major cities in the US. 

 

The state pension i was talking about in the Netherlands is nett per month.

 

Ask around with other expats and you'll see that an 80k pension per year is a very rare exception. Most i know live on 20/30k per year.

 

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, WhatsNext said:

Per month of course, don't forget you come from the USA where the wages are a lot higher than anywhere else. But in many European countries the health is already taken care of and rents are a lot lower than in major cities in the US. 

 

The state pension i was talking about in the Netherlands is nett per month.

 

Ask around with other expats and you'll see that an 80k pension per year is a very rare exception. Most i know live on 20/30k per year.

 

Thank you, and yes I understand what your saying.  Rents or even house payments in the US are quite high.  Now with interest rates going up any new loans are creating more debt for the new homeowner, or car owner making payments.  Yes, pay is much higher in the US, but then so are the other costs which you say are taken care of and house rents etc. are controlled.  I guess that is why Thai people believe that Americans are wealthy compared to others, but when they finally do get to the US they are shocked at the costs for everything.

[Sheryl]

Just now, WhatsNext said:

Per month of course, don't forget you come from the USA where the wages are a lot higher than anywhere else. But in many European countries the health is already taken care of and rents are a lot lower than in major cities in the US. 

 

The state pension i was talking about in the Netherlands is nett per month.

 

Ask around with other expats and you'll see that an 80k pension per year is a very rare exception. Most i know live on 20/30k per year.

 

An 80k a year pension is indeed rare. A somewhat larger number of retirees have 80k or more a year in income but this is usually from multiple sources (investment dividends etc) not just a pension.  Whether or not such income will be accepted remains to be seen. Thai immigration rules have a tendency to set up documentation requirements that are impractical.

 

From what I have seen there is an alternative for those with incomes less than 80k but more than 40k, however it makes little sense: they have to invest 250k in  Thailand  and that amount is the same whether their annual income is 41K or 79k i.e. it is not a combination method.

 

I think they have seriously over-reached on this and it will lead to failure. A few people will come but not many.

 

An income of 50K a year or a combination of income plus investment equalling  50k would have been far more reasonable and still double what is needed under other retirement schemes....and would have brought in many, many times the numbers the new scheme will.

[aussiexpat]

50 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Are you talking a weekly pension or are your rates you list for the month.  Taking out for insurance and taxes from the pension I listed lands it at about 4k USD a month after all is said and done.  To live in the US on 4k a month and paying for your residence, utilities, food, gas etc... I am afraid that many pretty much break even. It is why upon retirement folks downsize to a smaller residence or move to another State where it might be cheaper. I do not qualify for SS either as my Defined Benefit pension precludes the ability to gain from SS without a penalty and I never paid into SS in the US my entire career.  Here in Thailand my pension goes about 3 times further than it would in the US, but being wealthy is far from the truth.  Not having to live day to day as many others do, I see your point, but as far as being considered wealthy, far from it.  Even if i did not reside in the US, I still have to pay taxes and so on to the State i retired from and the federal government.

Sucks to be you if you can't make US$80k a year work for you.

 

I never want for anything, retired at 52 and spend much less than half that  per year

[billd766]

On 7/6/2022 at 10:06 AM, Boomer6969 said:

I cannot be optimistic, as health insurance is only one spanner IOs will throw into TBI's wheel. Remember what they did to Brits, and others, who wanted extensions based on monthly income. The came up with a totally anal requirement where you had to show 12 monthly identical payments into a Thai bank account. Even if it sounds easy many ended up having all sorts of problems. Most of those were scraping by on small pensions that would never be liable to any significant income tax, but I let you imagine the consequences this could have on pensions of more than 200000 THB a month. Under the current tax law we just cannot transfer larger pensions the year we earn them if we want to stay safe from the Tax office.

quote "The came up with a totally anal requirement where you had to show 12 monthly identical payments into a Thai bank account." Not correct at all.

 

AFAIR for a marriage extension based on income only, you only have to provide proof of an average 40,000 baht income per month to be paid into a Thai bank single account in your name only. The IOs DO understand the forex rate, and that it changes one or more times daily and certainly many times a week.

 

The last time I checked with them in the Kamphaeng Phet IO they were using the Bangkok Bank forex rate which is not a very good rate,

[Lacrimas]

8 hours ago, James105 said:

Clearly this visa was not designed with you in mind.   I am not sure why you are salty about it as they are not removing the other visa choices you already have.  This will be in addition to those visas so you have lost nothing here.    

 

Some of the comments on here remind me of this Ricky Gervais joke...

 

 

Is it so difficult to understand that I want those benefits? they will be wasted because almost nobody will be able to get them! And your imaginary friends don't count.

[Boomer6969]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

quote "The came up with a totally anal requirement where you had to show 12 monthly identical payments into a Thai bank account." Not correct at all.

 

AFAIR for a marriage extension based on income only, you only have to provide proof of an average 40,000 baht income per month to be paid into a Thai bank single account in your name only. The IOs DO understand the forex rate, and that it changes one or more times daily and certainly many times a week.

 

The last time I checked with them in the Kamphaeng Phet IO they were using the Bangkok Bank forex rate which is not a very good rate,

I don't see the need for your nitpicking here. My point is that I make a single transfer on the first business day day of every year for the total amount of my UN pension of the previous year. I do this to cover my rear side tax wise.

 

So to be constructive I am going to apply with the BOI as soon as they launch the scheme, if I can actually match their requirements. My pension is about 100k I I am under a Corporate Cigna plan, which is unlimited with a maximal copayment of about a 3000 Sfr. 

 

I think it will be fun, and I'll keep you posted. Pretty sure I'll end up getting another Thai Wife extension next January.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Boomer6969

[mudcat]

Solely about 'wealthy pensioners' the draft financial requirements are:

 

Financial evidence showing an income in current year e.g. bank statement, pension scheme e.g. pension certificate indicating monthly or yearly pension or bank statement in the last 12 months.

 

As I read this the screener at BOI will be looking for either the demonstration of one's  gross pension entitlement amounting to $80,000 per year or something in one's bank statement that shows a like amount of money flowing into ones 'bank account'.  It is clear a pension certificate would normally include a statement that it is 'life-time' and if one is lucky, inflation adjusted which makes the qualifying modifier of 'income in current year' moot.  How would they distinguish a regular direct deposit of current earning from a job into a bank account from an income stream for the next-years is unknown, but I am sure that there will be some need to document source.  

 

As to pre-tax or net income - these can be moved around from one pension to another.  To cover living expenses here I moved my tax withholding from my Social Security direct deposited to my Thai bank account to the pension paid into my U.S. checking account.  My Social Security statement indicates tax-withholding while my U.S. pension verification letter does not discuss withholdings or insurance payments but rather describes the gross amount paid.

 

As I understand the process there will be one-time screening by BOI after which they will issue  a letter of approval directing that a visa be entered into one's passport at a Thai consulate or Thai Immigration as a multiple entry visa good for ten-years similar to what a 10-year tourist visa issued by the U.S. 

 

I assume that the discretionary approval by the BOI is their only involvement and the initial action by the consulate or immigration is ministerial.  The lingering question is whether the 'yearly' report to immigration is treated as a re-certification similar to an extension or simply a 'still-breathing' check-in similar to 90-day reporting.  

[James105]

12 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

Is it so difficult to understand that I want those benefits? they will be wasted because almost nobody will be able to get them! And your imaginary friends don't count.

Sure, I understand you want the benefits but if you don't meet the requirements then you cannot have them as this visa is not designed for you.   I want the benefits people over 50 get but since I am not over 50 I cannot have them.   Perhaps this will inspire you to work harder and earn more so that you do meet them.    I don't see why you think the requirements are so unreachable as this is the one that applies to me and I don't see the part about my company being worth $150m or traded on the stock market.   I don't know what the "target industries" part is but I'd be surprised if my industry (software engineering) is not on it.  

 

Highly-skilled professional

• Personal income:
  • Personal income of a minimum of US$80,000/year in the past two years
  • In case of personal income below US$80,000/year, but no less than USD$40,000/year in the past two years or before retirement, applicants must have a Master's degree or above in science and technology, or special expertise relevant to the job assignment in Thailand.
  • No minimum personal income for professionals working for Thai government agencies.
• Current employer: 
  • A business in any targeted industries
  • A higher education institution, research institution, specialised training institution, or Thai government agency.
• Experience:
  • At least five years of work experience in the targeted industries except for applicants with a PhD or above in the relevant fields of the targeted industries, or applicants working for Thai government agencies.
• Health insurance:
  • Health insurance of at least US$50,000 coverage or social security benefits insuring treatment in Thailand, or at least US$100,000 deposit.

[ThailandRyan]

38 minutes ago, mudcat said:

Solely about 'wealthy pensioners' the draft financial requirements are:

 

Financial evidence showing an income in current year e.g. bank statement, pension scheme e.g. pension certificate indicating monthly or yearly pension or bank statement in the last 12 months.

 

As I read this the screener at BOI will be looking for either the demonstration of one's  gross pension entitlement amounting to $80,000 per year or something in one's bank statement that shows a like amount of money flowing into ones 'bank account'.  It is clear a pension certificate would normally include a statement that it is 'life-time' and if one is lucky, inflation adjusted which makes the qualifying modifier of 'income in current year' moot.  How would they distinguish a regular direct deposit of current earning from a job into a bank account from an income stream for the next-years is unknown, but I am sure that there will be some need to document source.  

 

As to pre-tax or net income - these can be moved around from one pension to another.  To cover living expenses here I moved my tax withholding from my Social Security direct deposited to my Thai bank account to the pension paid into my U.S. checking account.  My Social Security statement indicates tax-withholding while my U.S. pension verification letter does not discuss withholdings or insurance payments but rather describes the gross amount paid.

 

As I understand the process there will be one-time screening by BOI after which they will issue  a letter of approval directing that a visa be entered into one's passport at a Thai consulate or Thai Immigration as a multiple entry visa good for ten-years similar to what a 10-year tourist visa issued by the U.S. 

 

I assume that the discretionary approval by the BOI is their only involvement and the initial action by the consulate or immigration is ministerial.  The lingering question is whether the 'yearly' report to immigration is treated as a re-certification similar to an extension or simply a 'still-breathing' check-in similar to 90-day reporting.  

I like your interpretation and hope what you indicate is what actually happens, however this is Thailand and to many fingers stir the pot sometimes. If it works as described then a Copy of my annual Retirement income verification letter from last year and this year plus my PCH certificate of insurance would be all that's needed.

Edited July 9, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[aussiexpat]

US$80,000/year, but no less than USD$40,000/year in the past two years or before retirement, applicants must have a Master's degree or above in science and technology, or special expertise relevant to the job assignment in Thailand.

 

Wahoo, lucky I have a Masters of Engineering, not going back to work though ????

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by aussiexpat

[mikebell]

20 hours ago, gearbox said:

You will qualify easily for the new visa. Simple mathematics shows that if in 20 years you spent "millions", that would be at least 2 millions, divided by 20 makes $100k USD per year, comfortably exceeding the 80k required.

How many Thais could do the maths?

[ThailandRyan]

33 minutes ago, aussiexpat said:

US$80,000/year, but no less than USD$40,000/year in the past two years or before retirement, applicants must have a Master's degree or above in science and technology, or special expertise relevant to the job assignment in Thailand.

 

Wahoo, lucky I have a Masters of Engineering, not going back to work though ????

 

I think your looking at it wrong.  If retired 80k USD a year is all you need, along with the insurance requirement.  If your not retired and you are employed you need as you indicate.  

Edited July 9, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[aussiexpat]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

I think your looking at it wrong.  If retired 80k USD a year is all you need, along with the insurance requirement.  If your not retired and you are employed you need as you indicate.  

No, it clearly says you only need $40k if retired and have a Masters degree...

Edited July 9, 2022 by aussiexpat

[Lacrimas]

2 hours ago, James105 said:

Sure, I understand you want the benefits but if you don't meet the requirements then you cannot have them as this visa is not designed for you.   I want the benefits people over 50 get but since I am not over 50 I cannot have them.   Perhaps this will inspire you to work harder and earn more so that you do meet them.    I don't see why you think the requirements are so unreachable as this is the one that applies to me and I don't see the part about my company being worth $150m or traded on the stock market.   I don't know what the "target industries" part is but I'd be surprised if my industry (software engineering) is not on it.  

 

Highly-skilled professional

• Personal income:
  • Personal income of a minimum of US$80,000/year in the past two years
  • In case of personal income below US$80,000/year, but no less than USD$40,000/year in the past two years or before retirement, applicants must have a Master's degree or above in science and technology, or special expertise relevant to the job assignment in Thailand.
  • No minimum personal income for professionals working for Thai government agencies.
• Current employer: 
  • A business in any targeted industries
  • A higher education institution, research institution, specialised training institution, or Thai government agency.
• Experience:
  • At least five years of work experience in the targeted industries except for applicants with a PhD or above in the relevant fields of the targeted industries, or applicants working for Thai government agencies.
• Health insurance:
  • Health insurance of at least US$50,000 coverage or social security benefits insuring treatment in Thailand, or at least US$100,000 deposit.

I was talking about the Work from Thailand scheme.

 

The scheme you are quoting is even more useless, if you are already working for a company here paying you that much why would you go on your own and pay all the fees yourself? 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Lacrimas

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, aussiexpat said:

No, it clearly says you only need $40k if retired and have a Masters degree...

That's to qualify as a Highly Skilled Professional, not as a current retiree, or Wealthy Pensioner.  Several different categories one can qualify under,

https://www.huahintoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/LTR_page-0004.jpg

Edited July 9, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[aussiexpat]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

That's to qualify as a Highly Skilled Professional, not as a current retiree, or Wealthy Pensioner.  Several different categories one can qualify under,

 

Also as "Professional" so that's 2 categories I qualify with a Masters degree. Doesn't mean I need to work

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Also as "Professional" so that's 2 categories I qualify with a Masters degree. Doesn't mean I need to work

 

Wow, I'm glad I applied for and got my Certificate of Residency 24 years ago.

 

Never needs renewal, no 90 day reporting etc. No insurance requirement.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Wow, I'm glad I applied for and got my Certificate of Residency 24 years ago.

 

Never needs renewal, no 90 day reporting etc. No insurance requirement.

 

 

Sad that I can not apply for PR as I never worked in the country for any length of time, nor paid payroll taxes as I was employed by a foreign entity and the contracts were for 1 month here and 1 month there.  Of course I never had a work permit either.

Edited July 9, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Oracle2022]

Typical Thailand.

 

They dont appreciate that "rich pensioners" and "rich global citizens" would not want to live long term in Thailand.

 

Thailand will always attract the lower/middle status of people.  Its a third world country, with massive levels of corruption, unsafe roads, and many other downsides.

 

It will be another failure..........and in 12 months time there will be a "committee" meeting looking into why so few people applied for the LTR.............

 

Thailand loves committees why should any one person have to have any responsibility, better have a committee and then nobody has to take the blame for failure..........

 

They should just accept where Thailand is in the world - make a LTR visa simple for most people and then reap the benefits.

 

But that means a few people losing face.............and Thai's, like Chinese.......hate losing face.

[Misty]

43 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Wow, I'm glad I applied for and got my Certificate of Residency 24 years ago.

 

Never needs renewal, no 90 day reporting etc. No insurance requirement.

 

 

Agreed, especially for those who applied for PR 24 years ago and who don't work.

 

Being a working professional with recent experience with the mess that PR application has become, I think this new program may be big improvement.  Of course, we'll have to wait until after applications start being taken to be sure.