LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Mike Teavee]

26 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

folks with that money will go to the south of france not a 3rd world country

What folks with an income of $80,000 a year? 
 

I don’t earn that much (am too young to draw a pension so live from savings & passive income) but $6,500 pm wouldn’t go very far in places like the South of France.

 

[ThailandRyan]

17 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If your plan is to spend 100% of your time in Thailand with zero travel, it makes sense to bring the bulk of your assets to Thailand and avoid the need for annual extensions. The LTR WP visa is then ideal. Do most financially secure retirees fall into that category?

The ones that I know of here already do fall into that class as many are at that age where they may travel once in awhile but many choose to stay here in country.  I myself am at the young end of the spectrum for the retiree class. Those that did not need to buy the annuity have an annual 80K USD a year or more pension, are self insured or have an insurance plan that meets the requirements.  I have lived in the Philippines and enjoy living here.  My Plan has always been to travel 3 months elsewhere, then 3 months here and so on.  Prior to my LTR WP (LTR-P) I had an O-A Visa which I ended up doing an extension of stay on because of Covid.  Had I continued with obtaining the Non Imm O-A Visa in the US, redoing it every 2 years, the total cost with a ME Re-entry permit for the second year you can get by leaving and returning just prior to the end of the 1st year, would have run me just about the same price for 10 years.  For me the LTR was a no-brainer.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Felton Jarvis said:

If I have the kind of income specified for this “visa”, the country involved had better be prepared to kneel and shine my shoes with their tongue. Thailand seems not to understand that when THAT kind of investment is made……..we OWN you.

Money is not everything - and honestly - for many of us who went for this Visa, we are not talking about a lot of money relatively speaking.

 

I would not expect ANYONE to have to shine my shoes.  I shine them myself and I show respect to all, regardless of their income level.  

 

Thailand is looking at ways to help its economy, and so they are trying to encourage those with the money and who like Thailand, to stay in the country, in the hope it helps the economy.

 

There are different visas for those with less income, and I encourage those, who qualify for such different visas, and who wish to stay in Thailand, to apply under those different Visas.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by oldcpu

[Pib]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

If your plan is to spend 100% of your time in Thailand with zero travel, it makes sense to bring the bulk of your assets to Thailand and avoid the need for annual extensions. The LTR WP visa is then ideal. Do most financially secure retirees fall into that category?

A person does "not" need to bring the bulk of their assets to Thailand.  To meet the income requirements for an LTR Pensioner visa 100% of your assets like financial/bank accts can remain in any country like a person's home country....not one penny needs to be in Thailand "unless" your annual pension/fixed income is below $80K.  If below $80K but at least $40K then a $250K investment in Thailand consisting of govt bonds, foreign direct investment, or property is required.  

 

Do most financially secure retirees who want to retire in Thailand receive at least $80K/year in pensions/fixed income which does not require a $250K investment in Thailand?  Probably not although they may also have BIG savings but just not drawing too much on those savings to generate the kind of pension/fixed income required for an LTR Pensioner visa.  

 

Do most financially secure retirees who want to retire to Thailand receive $40K-$80K/year in pensions/fixed income?  Well, I expect there are many.  But is this group also willing to make a $250K investment in Thai govt bonds, direct investment, or property?   For sure some, but I expect most will not unless they plan to buy (or have already) a $250K (approx Bt8.5M) residence regardless of the type of visa they could apply for....and a nice residence/condo can easily cost $250K or more in Thailand.  

 

No argument from me that LTR visas are definitely for a niche group of people.   I do think that the Thai govt greatly over estimated the size of the group which can meet current LTR requirements.  Do I think the govt will make major changes in the LTR requirements like maybe lowering income/investment requirements?  Nope I don't because that would imply the requirements were set too high to begin with (a misjudgment) and/or imply maybe Thailand is losing retirement location desirability.  Plus, has the Thai govt ever reduced  requirements on any type of visa....not to my knowledge....but the govt has definitely increased requirements for some visas like for medical coverage and also come out with other high requirements visas like the OX visa that had very few takers.    

 

Keeping my fingers crossed the LTR visa program does achieve long term success....time will tell. 

 

 

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

If your plan is to spend 100% of your time in Thailand with zero travel, it makes sense to bring the bulk of your assets to Thailand and avoid the need for annual extensions. The LTR WP visa is then ideal. Do most financially secure retirees fall into that category?

For some of us, with the retirement income between $40k to $80k US/year ... that is NOT our main source of wealth. 

 

Bringing in $250K US into Thailand is not a big thing for some of us, and it is NOT the bulk of our assets by any stretch.   At the risk of irritating some (and my apologies to those if I do irritate) I have to say that this LTR Visa (for retirees) is referred to as a Wealthy Pensioner visa for a reason (relative to the Thai view)   Most my finances are outside of Thailand and it would cost me money to try and bring too much of it into the country - where fortunately the LTR Visa does not require much money (where I guess this is all 'relative' ... or a niche group, as Pib noted).

 

I don't by ANY stretch consider myself wealthy, but the LTR Visa (and also the Elite Visa requirements for that matter) are not big requirements for some of us who are not wealthy in our own minds ... but we have been diligent for years prior to retirement in managing our investments.

 

I plan to go to Europe at least once per year, to North America at least once per year, and probably at least one (and maybe two) other visit(s) outside of the country, so for certain its not my intent to spend 100% of my time in Thailand. Still, the LTR Visa (for my situation) makes economic sense over the Type-O Retirement (and type-OA Retirement) visas that I held in the past - not to mention the LTR visa is now much more convenient.  The only hurdle (for me) was to convince BoI that their criteria for what THEY considered wealthy was met.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

folks with that money will go to the south of france not a 3rd world country

Folks with that money consider a lot of things.  South of France does not tick all boxes for all people.

 

Some considerations ...

 

Where does one's family live?  How about one's partner's family?  Do they live in the retirement location?

 

What is the language spoken?  What if the spoken language is one's second language (where one doesn't speak the second language well) or they and their partner don't speak that local language at all.

 

What is the culture like where one plans to retire?  Is this something one likes?

 

What is the medical care quality?  How about dental care?  What is the cost for those?

 

How safe is the retirement location?

 

Where is the closest international airport (how far to go to the airport)?

 

What is the standard of living compared to other places?

 

How much money does one have to invest and/or earn to retire in said location

 

I looked at many places in Europe, North America ,  in Asia and in New Zealand and Australia .  For myself?  Phuket Thailand was where I ended up - my wife has family here, hospitals are good, there is an international airport about 1-hour away, my wife speaks the local language and I can get by with English language, and our money goes incredibly far.  I lived here for a couple of years a quarter of a century ago and I enjoyed myself then (which is when I met my wife).   YES we could have retired in Europe, (we considered a couple spots in France, also Malta, also Germany, and also Ireland, and some in North America and some other locations ) but in the end, the spot for us, given our backgrounds, was that Thailand was the best place.

 

I am certain EVERYONE has DIFFERENT criteria and hence I view it inaccurate to think that all folks with that kind of money would go to the south of France.  Not at all. .... I like the south of France, but there are places I like better.

Edited June 6, 2023 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

Indeed, and if simply focussing on the cost of the visa, 10 years of regular retirement extensions of a Non O entry is 19,000 baht. There is an annual hassle with the extension, but a lot less than for the (admittedly one time) application for the LTR visa.

Some of us go out of the country multiple times per year.  For me, when I was on a non-immigrant type-OA (and later on a type-O) it was cheapest for me to also pay 3800 THB for a multiple re-entry permit so not to lose my visa each time I left Thailand for a short travel. So it was not 1,900 yer year I paid, No it was 5,700 thb per year that I paid.  That is 57,000 THB for ten years - ie its about the same as the 50,000 THB for ten years of the LTR visa.

 

 

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

I think all options (LTR WP, Non O extensions and Elite) have their pros and cons, and different solutions will appeal to different people.

Yes !! I absolutely agree.  No one Visa is good for all of us.

 

I find it most interesting to read of the views and the accounts of others.

 

[Northwest87]

13 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

folks with that money will go to the south of france not a 3rd world country

You obviously have not been to the south of France in the last 40 years.

[Northwest87]

Just now, Northwest87 said:

80K won't take you very far in St. Tropez ????

 

[oldcpu]

One 'perk' that I wish the LTR Visa had, which to the best of my knowledge it doesn't have, would be exemption from having to submit a TM30 every time I return home from traveling overnight outside of my condominium here in Thailand. 

 

I forgot to ask BoI (when I was in their office receiving my 10-Year LTR WP visa) if I would be TM30 exempt (even thou I (pessimistically suspect ) I know the answer).

 

I return to Phuket soon from Bangkok, and its my plan to enter my return in the TM30 database.  I am also curious to see if there is an entry in that TM30 database (for the LTR Visa) to select beside my name, when my wife and I register my return to my abode in that database.

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

One 'perk' that I wish the LTR Visa had, which to the best of my knowledge it doesn't have, would be exemption from having to submit a TM30 every time I return home from traveling overnight outside of my condominium here in Thailand. 

 

I forgot to ask BoI (when I was in their office receiving my 10-Year LTR WP visa) if I would be TM30 exempt (even thou I (pessimistically suspect ) I know the answer).

 

I return to Phuket soon from Bangkok, and its my plan to enter my return in the TM30 database.  I am also curious to see if there is an entry in that TM30 database (for the LTR Visa) to select beside my name, when my wife and I register my return to my abode in that database.

According to the latest guidance (unfortunately not followed by all immigration offices) you only need to submit a fresh TM30 report if (i) your permanent residence changes; or (ii) you leave Thailand and re-enter with a fresh permission to stay. As far as I know, there has been no official word on whether re-entering with an LTR visa should be treated as a fresh entry under the guidance. (It has been explicitly stated that coming back with a re-entry permit is not a fresh entry.)

[oldcpu]

21 hours ago, BritTim said:

According to the latest guidance (unfortunately not followed by all immigration offices) you only need to submit a fresh TM30 report if (i) your permanent residence changes; or (ii) you leave Thailand and re-enter with a fresh permission to stay. As far as I know, there has been no official word on whether re-entering with an LTR visa should be treated as a fresh entry under the guidance. (It has been explicitly stated that coming back with a re-entry permit is not a fresh entry.)

Thanks for that info.   I confess I do not know what Phuket's immigration's policy is on this.  There have been a couple recent articles in the local english language press about Phuket immigration handing out 'yellow cards' to both foreigners and their Thai landlords for failing to send TM30s to immigration.

 

After returning to Phuket, my wife and I went to the online Immigration database for TM30 and entered my return (address) to my condo. We checked the drop down menu (which lists various Visa types) and there is NO mention of the LTR Visa (ie that website has not been updated).  

 

However in the Thai database, to enter the Visa type as part of the online TM30 completion is an optional field.  One does not have to fill in the Visa type - and so there being no LTR Visa field in that drop down menu is rather a mute point. 

 

Plus as you point out, dependent on the immigration office, the guidelines you point out suggest one may not need to do the TM30 for nominal domestic travel.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by oldcpu

[Cocon]

I have a question, i want to apply for the LTR Visa but for some papers  i have to translate, but they write "a notarized translations" but this we don't have in our country we have a certified sworn translator....does anyone know or this is ok?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Cocon said:

I have a question, i want to apply for the LTR Visa but for some papers  i have to translate, but they write "a notarized translations" but this we don't have in our country we have a certified sworn translator....does anyone know or this is ok?

As I understand the requirement, you need the translation to be notarised by the Thai embassy in your country, and subsequently have the notarisation validated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Thailand. If I am mistaken, someone will no doubt correct me.

[MPoll]

On 6/6/2023 at 7:32 PM, ThailandRyan said:

At the end of the 5th year it is just a resubmission of what's already in our files, and the paperwork they gave us all, after approval, indicating the Visa type and no further monies are needed , and we are good for another 5 years. 

 

I am curious to see what they ask for in 5 years. I'm preparing to keep my tax and insurance records handy just in case they ask to see if my pension income remained above $80,000/year and that I kept up with my insurance policies. There is no reason for my pension to decrease and I will keep copies of my tax returns available. I will also keep each year of insurance certificates. I will also be getting a new passport so I will make sure I have the old passport. When I applied for the LTR I needed to give them copies of half my passport pages to satisfy the immigration official. 

 

I do love my pensioner LTR though. It seems a little silly but the psychological relief of not doing 90 reports and future yearly extensions or thinking about my 800k bank account is nice. I just returned from the US last week and I loved using the FastTrack lane at immigration.

[MPoll]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:15 PM, Mike Teavee said:

What folks with an income of $80,000 a year? 

For those of us over 60 we started working during a time when pensions were more common. If you stuck with a company or industry for 30+ years it is reasonable to expect that a work pension or work pension + Social Security (US citizens) can be above $80k/year. Particularly for those have rose to management level positions. 

[Pib]

17 hours ago, Cocon said:

I have a question, i want to apply for the LTR Visa but for some papers  i have to translate, but they write "a notarized translations" but this we don't have in our country we have a certified sworn translator....does anyone know or this is ok?

It would be best to ask BoI via their Contact form or email address, but I expect translation via certified sworn translator is acceptable "if that is what is used in your country." 

 

BoI has been answering inquiries pretty fast (within hours to a few days).  Be sure to identify your country and how they use certified sworn translators in your inquiry.   I expect BoI has dealt with applications from "many" countries and know what type of translations are available in each country. 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

 

Now in BritTim's response that's the procedure for getting a document "legalized" which is typically used for those folks wanting to register a marriage with the Thai govt were the marriage was accomplished outside of Thailand.

 

 

[Cocon]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

It would be best to ask BoI via their Contact form or email address, but I expect translation via certified sworn translator is acceptable "if that is what is used in your country." 

 

BoI has been answering inquiries pretty fast (within hours to a few days).  Be sure to identify your country and how they use certified sworn translators in your inquiry.   I expect BoI has dealt with applications from "many" countries and know what type of translations are available in each country. 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

 

Now in BritTim's response that's the procedure for getting a document "legalized" which is typically used for those folks wanting to register a marriage with the Thai govt were the marriage was accomplished outside of Thailand.

 

 

Thanks Pib i get already an answer rom BOI, a certified sworn translator is ok.

[leinez]

Hello,

Just a quick question. Will BOI accept US Medicare  supplemental Plan F for the min health insurance requirements? Or alternatively, what is the best option for health insurance coverage, keeping in mind applying for LTR from overseas and unable to do insurance check ups before reaching Thailand?

[DrJack54]

Out of interest what has been the take up # of LTR.

Read many posts almost bragging about wealth level to along lines ...

I have LTR.

Congratulations.

What are the total LTR issued so far.

Only a guess but thinking SFA. 

PE (elite visa) stats are available.

Assume LTR also. 

[sustanon]

LTRW "Wealthy Global Citizens".
Is 1 million in assets enough to apply or do you also need to have 80k a year in income ?

[K2938]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Out of interest what has been the take up # of LTR.

The number is very small and orders of magnitude smaller than what the BOI was originally aiming for.  If you scroll though this thread, you will find various numbers announced.  Please however note that these are only numbers of applications, not the even smaller number of visas actually granted and issued.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, sustanon said:

LTRW "Wealthy Global Citizens".
Is 1 million in assets enough to apply or do you also need to have 80k a year in income ?

The qualification requirements are summarised on the page https://ltr.boi.go.th/

Quote

WEALTHY INDIVIDUALS HOLDING AT LEAST USD 1 MILLION IN ASSETS

• At least USD 1 million in assets

• Personal income of a minimum of USD 80,000/ year in the past two years

• Investment of at least USD 500,000 in Thai government bonds, foreign direct investment, or Thai property

• Health insurance with at least USD 50,000 coverage or social security benefits insuring treatment in Thailand or at least USD 100,000 deposit

• Applicants must fulfill all of the above requirements to be eligible for Wealthy Global Citizens application

 

[Pink Mist]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

The qualification requirements are summarised on the page https://ltr.boi.go.th/

 

Yet for the LTR-WP, wealthy pensioner, as has been discussed in this thread, all that's needed for it is to have a pension or such of 80k USD at least r if between 40K USD and 80k USD an investment of 250K USD in Thailand.  If you qualify you qualify.  There are other classes of LTR Visas available as well such as the one in the quote, and then a work from Thailand Visa or work in Thailand visa which also includes a work permit,

[Pink Mist]

An off-topic post delving into Malaysia's program and Australia's program has been removed. This is not helpful and hijacks the discussion.

[Misty]

7 hours ago, K2938 said:

The number is very small and orders of magnitude smaller than what the BOI was originally aiming for.  If you scroll though this thread, you will find various numbers announced.  Please however note that these are only numbers of applications, not the even smaller number of visas actually granted and issued.

In foreign chamber talks by government officials involved in designing and promoting the program, it was mentioned that the high initial target numbers were pretty much aspirational only.  High targets were needed in order to get the program off its feet, but it didn't seem like the speakers thought they needed to be achieved for the program to be a success.

 

The LTR visa is a government program intended to provide attractive additional options to the existing system to those who qualify. By that measure, I'd say it's successful already. And so far the program has been expanded once already to widen the number of people who qualify. Perhaps we will see it widen further to include more folks, for example the digital nomads, etc.

[K2938]

1 hour ago, Misty said:

In foreign chamber talks by government officials involved in designing and promoting the program, it was mentioned that the high initial target numbers were pretty much aspirational only.  High targets were needed in order to get the program off its feet, but it didn't seem like the speakers thought they needed to be achieved for the program to be a success.

It is not uncommon in the world of public relations to try to declare a goal grossly failed not to have been meant seriously in an attempt to gloss over the failure afterwards

[Misty]

1 hour ago, K2938 said:

It is not uncommon in the world of public relations to try to declare a goal grossly failed not to have been meant seriously in an attempt to gloss over the failure afterwards

Very true!  However, this was stated in March/April 2022, so well before the program was even launched.

 

If you think about it, the LTR program could never have been approved if they said we may only get a small number initially.  But the government official speaking at the chamber was well aware of the crying need for better programs than were available at the time.  Years of trying to improve on the existing system met in failure.  The best way forward seemed to be to do a runner around the existing system.  Now that there is the new LTR program under BoI oversight, it can be expanded.

 

[Pib]

13 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Out of interest what has been the take up # of LTR.

Read many posts almost bragging about wealth level to along lines ...

I have LTR.

Congratulations.

What are the total LTR issued so far.

Only a guess but thinking SFA. 

PE (elite visa) stats are available.

Assume LTR also. 

The number of people who have applied 1 Sep 2022 - 18 Apr 2023 is on the BoI LTR website....one of those sliding charts on the side of the computer screen.   I asked BoI if the chart reflected "total" applications or only those "approved" applications; BoI answered it was "total" applications.   

 

But I would expect (just my guess) it's only those applications that pass an initial sanity check (i.e., complete or mostly complete applications vs applications missing various required proof/documents or don't even come close to meeting requirements). 

 

Basically where the top of the chart says "Qualifications Endorsement Applies".....that means the total number of LTR Visa applications without indicating how many were approved.    Also, keep in mind that BoI and relevant application reviewing agencies only "endorse" an application; it's not finally, finally approved until you pay the Bt50K issue fee via going to BoI Immigration in Bangkok or via the e-visa system if currently residing outside of Thailand.

 

Snapshot from BoI LTR website as of 17 June 2023

[Pib]

12 hours ago, sustanon said:

LTRW "Wealthy Global Citizens".
Is 1 million in assets enough to apply or do you also need to have 80k a year in income ?

You need to meet "all", not just one, of the income requirements as shown in the BoI LTR snapshot in BritTom's post above.    

 

I expect a fair amount of people could meet the 1 million in assets requirements if they were lucky enough to own some real estate that they inherited or bought, have some BIG savings like retirement savings/stocks/bonds, etc.   Heck, I have family/friends back in the U.S. who are millionaires on paper from real estate they bought/inherited many years ago (but have no plans/desire to sell), but who live on modest pensions/savings.  

 

But the Wealthy Global Citizen visa also requires at least $80K income per year.  Heck, a person could be assets rich on paper like owing some real estate worth at least a $1M somewhere worldwide but not having a lot of annual income.   And they also need to show at least $500K investment "in" Thailand like real estate, direct investment, or Thai govt bonds. 

 

I expect if a person bought Thai real estate (even if bought years ago but still owned) worth at least $1M at time of purchase that would kill two birds with one stone by meeting the $1M in assets requirement and the $500K investment in Thailand requirement.  But after killing those two birds the $80K in annual income bird still has to be killed.