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LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency


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14 hours ago, leinez said:

Hello,

Just a quick question. Will BOI accept US Medicare  supplemental Plan F for the min health insurance requirements? Or alternatively, what is the best option for health insurance coverage, keeping in mind applying for LTR from overseas and unable to do insurance check ups before reaching Thailand?

Medicare is not accepted as it does not provide coverage outside of the U.S. except in certain emergency situations for a limited timeframe....like on a short trip/vacation and certain types of medical emergencies occur. 

 

And since a supplemental Plan F (a.k.a., a Medigap plan to cover certain things/copays that Medicare does not fully cover) is just a supplement to Medicare which typically covers the Medicare copay/coinsurance requirement (i.e., the 20% that Medicare don't pay) I seriously, seriously doubt any Medigap type plan provides any coverage outside the U.S. except for certain emergencies during trips/vacation up to 60 days.  Medigap type plans which supplement Medicare pretty much have to follow Medicare restrictions as to what can be covered and what can't. 

 

Heck, since 1 Jan 2020 Plans F is supposedly no longer available to "new applicants" due to a law change which said insurance companies can no longer offer plans which cover the Original Medicare Part B deductible.  Supposedly, companies started offering Plan G for new applicants which is basically the old Plan F minus the Medicare Part B deductible coverage.  

 

But hey, if you can provide a Medicare Plan Supplement policy that states in the policy they provide worldwide/Thailand coverage 365 days a year I expect BoI would accept it.

 

So, assuming your Medicare Supplement Plan is not acceptable you would need to get a U.S. or Thailand policy which provides at least $50K worldwide or Thailand coverage.

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Clearly the 4 categories of qualifications are separate. 

 

For example,  there is one for a wealthy pensioner and another category for someone who is still working (i.e., not a retiree).  

 

Thus, not all four conditions need to be met; just one of the four.

 

Still, not an easy hurdle for many.

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2 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

Clearly the 4 categories of qualifications are separate. 

 

For example,  there is one for a wealthy pensioner and another category for someone who is still working (i.e., not a retiree).  

 

Thus, not all four conditions need to be met; just one of the four.

 

Still, not an easy hurdle for many.

No, "all four" must be met for the Wealthy Global Citizen.  The Wealthily Pensioner has a different set of requirements to meet as does remaining/other categories.  Once again, below are the Wealthy Global Citizen requirements....please note the red text at the bottom regarding the requirements where says "all" of the listed requirements must be met.....not one....not two....but "all."

 

image.png.47a597353d4e9045d87ff73577ead7b8.png

 

 

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9 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

Clearly the 4 categories of qualifications are separate. 

 

For example,  there is one for a wealthy pensioner and another category for someone who is still working (i.e., not a retiree).  

 

Thus, not all four conditions need to be met; just one of the four.

 

Still, not an easy hurdle for many.

Two categories of the 4 are for those working still, yet the other two classifications could, if they wanted obtain a work permit according to the regulations.  I had to submit a letter explaining I did not wish to have a work permit, as the application I submitted showed erroneously that I had checked the Yes box instead of NO, while other had the opposite happen.

 

As @Pibsaid above each category has it's own requirements, with the Wealthy Global Citizen having more requirements to meet than the Wealthy Pensioner.

Edited by ThailandRyan
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18 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

True, Pib and Ryan. 

 

But I would think that the only people on this Forum interested in the LTR option would be those of lesser means than the "Wealthy Global Citizens."

I agree and for the Wealthy Pensioner if one has the 80K USD a year in a pension its a no-brainer.  However, the 40K USD to 80K USD top up provision creates an uncertain dilemma for some with having to show a 250K investment or already owning a property which meets that requirement.  If I were to loose my Pension and fall into that category I at least have a property which meets the requirement.  I know many do not and this is where the 250K USD investment in Thai Bonds comes into play, yet that is another sticky one as some do not have that money or they do not want it to sit here in Thailand making a pittance.

 

Whatever, you decide on I wish you the best of luck.

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So, until the LTR conditions become a bit more attainable for us less-wealthy, but with sustainable retirement incomes, I'll continue to suffer the annual extension visits and the 90-day reports.

 

Keep us posted if you hear of changes.

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As the LTR stats show several posts up the Wealthy Pensioner visa is the most popular....the Pensioner visa seems to be quite popular.    If a person happens to receive at least $80K/year in "pension/fixed income".....OR if receiving at least $40K but less that $80K/year in pension/fixed income "along with a $250K investment in Thailand" which could be a new or past purchase of a Thai residence like a condo then a person is probably a shoe-in for LTR Pensioner visa approval assuming they also have the necessary health insurance coverage and at least 50 years old. 

 

I just don't know why Thailand can't consider a person who retires before 50....same thing for the 1 year Non O/OA/OX retirement visa. 

 

Now a condo purchase of $250K (approx Bt7.5M) might sound like it would a penthouse but at least here in Bangkok, and probably Phuket also, it would not be a penthouse...would be more like an "average" condo.  Heck Bt7.5M couldn't even buy a person a basement unit in many condo buildings.  I did a quick google to see what the average price for a condo was in Bangkok and currently the "median" price is almost Bt7M....I expect quite a few foreigners own such properties have used such a property investment (i.e., the condo they are living in) to meet the  LTR income requirement.  If you happen to currently own a condo in Thailand you paid at least Bt7.5M for, also receive at least Bt40K in pension/fixed income, and at least 50 years old with health coverage then an LTR visa could be yours.

 

image.png.cfd876da5c6cfc5bd5b0966d628a0df7.png

Edited by Pib
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Why make it so confusing? The first 2 categories should be combined and simplified.

Applicants are considered based on their income. One of the following conditions must be met.

1. Passive income over $80,000 USD. Passive income: pension, social security benefit, dividend, rent, capital gain, investment return.) or

2. Passive income over $40000 plus $250,000 investment or property in Thailand.or

3. Passive income less then $40000 , combined income over $80,000 plus asset over 1M and $500,000 investment or property in Thailand.

The insurance clause has no exemption. Does it make sense? Retirees with 800k savings or 65k monthly income do not need to show health insurance for non-o extension but those who show $1M $5M or $10 M have to. I know it’s 1 year vs 10 years but they are basically the same: visas to stay in Thailand.

Edited by Thailand J
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38 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

The insurance clause has no exemption. Does it make sense? Retirees with 800k savings or 65k monthly income do not need to show health insurance for non-o extension but those who show $1M $5M or $10 M have to. I know it’s 1 year vs 10 years but they are basically the same: visas to stay in Thailand.

The O-A and O-X visas already had an insurance requirement. I think it was difficult to introduce a new visa that excluded it. I think there are many in high places that feel insurance should be a requirement for one-year extensions of a Non O based on retirement, and that might well be enforced at some point in the future. It probably already would have been, but it would have a huge impact on some elderly folks who have long been here, but would find it impossible to comply with an insurance mandate.

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Here's a curious observation:

 

Wealthy Global "Application for Qualification Endorsement....." is clear that they want last year's income, and the year before's income. And this is proven with tax returns. And each year must exceed $80k. They also ask for how much income so far this current year -- now doubt looking at projection. Thus, besides with the other financial requirements, you're pretty much needing to be a $80k per year rich dude for two plus years.

 

Now, I just did my application, but was curious about tax returns I needed to provide. So, I asked BoI in an email, and here's their answer:

Quote

For Wealthy Pensioner category, you will only need to submit the income of previous year or last 12 months, meaning that it will be for year 2022 only. We do not need an income from 2021.

So, I submitted 2022's tax return, with 1099's -- and also a projection of 2023 income, based on official pay stubs/projections. All above $80k, so no problem with its acceptance.

 

But what if 2022's tax return had been below $80k? Would that be a show stopper, like it apparently would be for a Wealthy Global dude? Hmmmm.

 

But their answer to my question said, "income of past 12 months" also acceptable. So, if my past 11 months' income was, say, $65k -- and if I had an IRA account with some substance -- why not cash out $15k (or whatever needed to reach $80k) in order to meet the application requirement?

 

It's not like that $15k is lost -- it just goes in your pocket or savings account. Yeah, some taxes involved. But if you really want a WP LTR visa, and its advantages -- leaning on your IRA may be an option. [Of course, if you drain it too badly, at the five year renewal date you may come up short. But maybe your investments will tide you over in your IRA account.]

 

Now, an IRA to take up the slack needn't be just for the 12 month example, above -- using the calendar method for the $80k can also use your IRA to take up the slack. But I found it interesting that BoI's answer to me certainly seems to make the $80k a factor of 12 months, not necessarily of a calendar year. And this does give some flexibility, particularly if you've got some low months you're able to compensate with high months of income.

 

 

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4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Here's a curious observation:

 

Wealthy Global "Application for Qualification Endorsement....." is clear that they want last year's income, and the year before's income. And this is proven with tax returns. And each year must exceed $80k. They also ask for how much income so far this current year -- now doubt looking at projection. Thus, besides with the other financial requirements, you're pretty much needing to be a $80k per year rich dude for two plus years.

 

Actually for Wealthy Global Citizen LTR visa the  BoI LTR Announcement signed by the BoI top-guy states an "average" over the two years preceding application.  That announcement memorandum is like the underlying LTR regulation based on what the Cabinet approved.  In my opinion that "average" word provides some income flexibility "if", repeat, if BoI has the same opinion as me.   Like if a person made $100K the previous year and then $60K for the year before that then that an "average" of $80K over two years.

Link to BoI LTR Announcement and below partial quote from it

Quote

2.1.2 Provide evidence of an average personal income of at least USD 80,000 per year for two years before the date of application.

 

However, the Wealthy Global Citizen Required Docs Checklist does not use the "average" word....simply says no less than $80K/year in the past 2 years.

Link to BoI Required Docs and below partial quote from it

Quote

Individual income tax return such as P.N.D. 90/91, BIR60, Form 1040, SA100, T1 General etc. showing income of no less than 80,000 USD per year in the past 2 years 

 

But from all the posts made by many LTR applicants I'm of the opinion BoI offers flexibility in deciding if a person's past income over X-period satisfies LTR requirements....and this flexibility is a good thing.

 

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Does anyone know how the LTR spousal visa works when applying overseas?  The notification of qualification endorsement for LTR lists only the main applicant, the spouse is not mentioned.  Should the spouse have been listed on the endorsement letter, or will the evisa application accept the LTR of the main applicant during the document submission process for the spouse?

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1 hour ago, leinez said:

Does anyone know how the LTR spousal visa works when applying overseas?  The notification of qualification endorsement for LTR lists only the main applicant, the spouse is not mentioned.  Should the spouse have been listed on the endorsement letter, or will the evisa application accept the LTR of the main applicant during the document submission process for the spouse?

From my experience dependents (spouse, kids) are not listed on the endorsement letter for the main applicant.  Nor is the main applicant listed on the endorsement letter for dependents.

 

If you haven't already, start a new BOI LTR-O application for any dependents (spouse, kids) that you want covered by the main applicant. As part of that process, there will be a section that asks for information regarding the main applicant.  The main applicant will also have to acknowledge the dependents on their own BoI login in.

 

 

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On 6/23/2023 at 5:09 AM, lextsy said:

Here is my nice neat entry exit stamps from my LTR this year

Thanks for that image of the entry/exit stamps.

 

My understanding is on an LTR visa, each time one re-enters Thailand their date for an annual report is restarted, starting from the date of their re-entry ... so based on that image,  if you were still in Thailand, you wouldn't need to do an annual report until 15-April-2024.

 

But I note you left Thailand on 15-June-2023 with no corresponding (yet) re-entry stamp. That has me puzzling a bit - are you then required to enter Thailand again by 15-April-2024 to do an annual report  (or possibly enter Thailand again by 15-June-2024  to do an annual report ?  )

 

I assume not (as I assume one does not have to live in Thailand to keep the LTR visa) , but I am curious to confirm my assumption is correct.

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On 6/6/2023 at 3:41 PM, oldcpu said:

...

 

FUTURE

 

...  My 7 year Thai Government Savings bond will only have 2 years left in its maturity (before redemption) in five years time, so I am already plannnig to buy a new 2-million baht Thai Government savings bond purchase at that time (in early 2028), so to obtain the second 5-year permission to stay of this 10-year Visa. That likely means I will have 4-million in Thai bonds for a couple of years. I am lucky, this is no big deal for myself - others might balk at this.

 

 

 

Very helpful report, thanks.  Two questions about the bonds:  Do they have to have a term of at least 5 years?  And roughly what interest rate were you able to get (I'm seeing a 5-year Thai rate of 2.35% online this week, compared to around 4% for U.S. treasuries - is that about right?)

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42 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Two questions about the bonds:  Do they have to have a term of at least 5 years?  And roughly what interest rate were you able to get (I'm seeing a 5-year Thai rate of 2.35% online this week, compared to around 4% for U.S. treasuries - is that about right?)

Yes...bond maturity time remaining must be at least 5 years "as of the date of your LTR application"...see link/snapshot below for BoI LTR website.   

 

And when it comes mid term LTR renewal time to get the 2nd 5 years of the 10 year LTR visa you need have at least 5 years remaining on a govt bond to get that 5 year extension.  So, if you buy say only a 5 year bond for the initial LTR application and able to submit your LTR application same day the bond will be maturing just before needing to apply for the extension....the bond will no longer have at least 5 years left on it come extension time....another bond of at least 5 years would be needed.  And to avoid the situation of a 5 year bond maturity not syncing up with an LTR application date (like not quite having at least 5 years maturity remaining) a person should probably buy a bond of at least 6 years in length (if there such a thing as a 6 year bond....more likely a 7 year bond is the next maturity period up from a 5 year bond).  

 

While BoI has not released any detailed guidance on the mid term extension renewal process all indications are is will be a repeat process of the initial application process "minus any visa  application fee"....that is, free since you paid for the entire 10 year visa when getting the initial 5 years permit to stay.   Keep in mind the 10 year LTR visa is really a 5 yr + 5 yr visa which will involve a mid term extension process to get that 2nd 5 years.  Since a person learned how to ride the LTR application process bicycle on the initial application the person should not have learning curve for the extension application as he/she already knows how to ride the LTR visa bicycle.

 

And yea, Thai govt bonds pay less than most western countries....the approximate 2.5% ballpark is what Thai govt bonds currently pay.   Thai govt primary bond offerings usually sell out with hours to days....the interest offered is more than adequate to quickly sell the entire bond offering....and Thais buy the great bulk of the bonds. 

http://www.worldgovernmentbonds.com/country/thailand/#:~:text=The Thailand 10Y Government Bond,last modification in May 2023).

 

 

From BoI LTR Website

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Announcement_of the Office of the Board of Investment No.2-2565 (EN).pdf

image.png.c9f50e4f32e21295d53d8c9e74d3fda9.png

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12 hours ago, Misty said:

The main applicant will also have to acknowledge the dependents on their own BoI login in.

 

 

The main applicant was approved, so I don't think you can make changes anymore.  Under step 2 ("visa"), personal information, the spouse is listed, but the "personal dependent" section shows no details (I don't believe there was an option to add anything/anyone here).

 

I have reached out to the BOI, but no response so far. Might have to try a new LTR-O

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11 hours ago, leinez said:

The main applicant was approved, so I don't think you can make changes anymore.  Under step 2 ("visa"), personal information, the spouse is listed, but the "personal dependent" section shows no details (I don't believe there was an option to add anything/anyone here).

 

I have reached out to the BOI, but no response so far. Might have to try a new LTR-O

Do you already have an LTR-O application started for your spouse?  If not, this would be your next step. Your spouse needs their own BoI account and login, separate from yours.  Unfortunately I don't think anything happens until they make their own, separate account and application.

 

If you've already done this but aren't getting anywhere, yes, definitely contact the BoI.  The online application system had many many glitches last year, and maybe some of these have still not been identified.

 

When I was doing applications, part of the separate LTR-O application required entering the main applicant's "DOC number".  After doing that, the main applicant received a notification on their BoI account, which required the main applicant to acknowledge/approve the addition of the qualified LTR-O applicant. 

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16 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Very helpful report, thanks.  Two questions about the bonds:  Do they have to have a term of at least 5 years?  And roughly what interest rate were you able to get (I'm seeing a 5-year Thai rate of 2.35% online this week, compared to around 4% for U.S. treasuries - is that about right?)

I suspect every issue of Thai government bonds can be different.

 

In my case, the Thai government bonds I purchased in December-2022 had a 7-year term, at a 3% interest rate per annum.

 

Frankly , given my financial situation, I could not have cared less as to the interest rate (it could have been 0% for all I cared), as the amount of bonds I needed to purchase was very small from my perspective. 

 

My own view, is if one needs to pay close attention to the interest rate of such a small amount but can qualify for the LTR visa, then well done in qualifying for the LTR visa,  ... but ... possibly the LTR visa is not the correct visa for one.  The 1-year non-O immigrant visa also has its advantages.  ... and if I was under 50-years of age, I likely would have gone for the Elite Visa.

 

We are fortunate, I believe, that Thailand offers many different possibilities for expats to stay in Thailand.

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32 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

My own view, is if one needs to pay close attention to the interest rate of such a small amount but can qualify for the LTR visa, then well done in qualifying for the LTR visa,  ... but ... possibly the LTR visa is not the correct visa for one.

Seriously? But you are correct,  if  I  didn't have the  80k  pension and a well established health coverage I wouldn't have applied for the LTR. Which is amazingly easy to get when you match the criteria.

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On 12/26/2022 at 11:05 AM, Misty said:

An update on the digital work permit process:

 

I had applied for the LTR visa & Digital work permit on 2 Sep.  Although I was able to receive the LTR e-visa in October, the digital work permit issuance was delayed due to IT problems. The BoI reported that IT problems were resolved a week or two ago and my digital work permit application could then move forward. 

 

Completing the application progress then took an in person visit to the BoI, and a number of phone calls (mostly the BoI calling me). But the work permit application was eventually finalized last week.  Receiving the digital work permit required making an appointment for another in person visit to the BoI. After final approval, the final BoI appointment took a little over an hour to get the digital work permit issued. 

 

There are a couple of things for work permit applicants to be aware of:   in the case of a 5 year work permit, you pay Bt3000 x 5 years at once. Credit cards and ATM debit cards are accepted, but still no cash.  Although you're required to submit a photo as part of the online application, another photo will still be taken at the One Stock Service for the actual work permit.

 

After payment & photo, there was some confusion about receiving the actual work permit - apparently if you use Apple devices you can download use a QR code and download an app.  I had no way to do this.  So at my request, the BoI provided a paper print out of a copy of the digital work permit which included a QR code.  That QR code takes anyone to the online location of the digital work permit.

 

Overall, the BoI staff were really helpful and professional, despite all the IT glitches encountered that required almost step by step intervention.  Without going into detail, One Stop Service was less ideal.  I am grateful for the BoI's help in getting the job done.

 

 

@Misty

 Curiosity questions:

 

Were you issued a "5" year work permit simply because that's the standard/maximum length of a work permit under a LTR visa?   

 

Could a person ask for the work permit to be issued say only be for 1 or 2 years (i.e.., just something less than 5 years?   And if say a 1 year permit is requested then does than mean the fee is only Bt3K?  

 

Or maybe the length of the work permit is determined by the employment/employer paperwork submitted which might show planned employment length?

 

And do you have to do any "annual" report/filing related to your LTR work permit?

 

And no, I not planning on working/asking for a work permit under my LTR-P visa, I'm just curious as to if 5 year permit is the standard length issued for an LTR visa, if a shorter length is also available and a shorter length would cost less, maybe the info would be helpful to others wanting to get the work permit with their LTR visa, etc.   Just curious....hoping maybe you know off the top of your head....plus I'm too lazy to send these questions to BoI.????

 

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4 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Seriously? But you are correct,  if  I  didn't have the  80k  pension and a well established health coverage I wouldn't have applied for the LTR. Which is amazingly easy to get when you match the criteria.

@Ben Zioner

Just to confirm, does this mean you were approved (endorsed) for an LTR visa recently?   If so, what type did you apply for and how many "calendar" days did it take from Submitting Your Application until receiving the Approved/Endorsement Letter?   Don't really care when you got the actual LTR visa inked into your passport in Bangkok or issued via the evisa system.   Thanks.

 

As FYI for others,

I know a person who very recently applied for an LTR Pensioner visa and it took approx 16 calendar days from Application Submission to Application Endorsement/Approval....and this included a day or two delay due to an additional document request relating to medical coverage where the person just re-upload the same document again but this time with a short memo explaining an issue....his application was the endorsed/approved. 

 

Yeap, getting an LTR visa can be easy and pretty fast when meeting the LTR requirements and providing the required document proof like for income, medical coverage, etc.   Definitely faster than the initial months of the LTR program where it took around 2 months for most folks although some got it faster.   And this is not to imply some applications still don't drag out for months and months, repeated additional doc requests, etc.   Each person's situation and their application is different such as quality/thoroughness of documentation which results in some applications being approved quickly while others can take months and months especially in the case of additional document requests which might take time to round-up, maybe needs translation, etc.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Pib said:

@Ben Zioner

Just to confirm, does this mean you were approved (endorsed) for an LTR visa recently?   If so, what type did you apply for and how many "calendar" days did it take from Submitting Your Application until receiving the Approved/Endorsement Letter?   Don't really care when you got the actual LTR visa inked into your passport in Bangkok or issued via the evisa system.   Thanks.

 

As FYI for others,

I know a person who very recently applied for an LTR Pensioner visa and it took approx 16 calendar days from Application Submission to Application Endorsement/Approval....and this included a day or two delay due to an additional document request relating to medical coverage where the person just re-upload the same document again but this time with a short memo explaining an issue....his application was the endorsed/approved. 

 

Yeap, getting an LTR visa can be easy and pretty fast when meeting the LTR requirements and providing the required document proof like for income, medical coverage, etc.   Definitely faster than the initial months of the LTR program where it took around 2 months for most folks although some got it faster.   And this is not to imply some applications still don't drag out for months and months, repeated additional doc requests, etc.   Each person's situation and their application is different such as quality/thoroughness of documentation which results in some applications being approved quickly while others can take months and months especially in the case of additional document requests which might take time to round-up, maybe needs translation, etc.

 

 

Got it a  while  ago, pensioner.  

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1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Got it a  while  ago, pensioner.  

Ben, what month did you obtain the Visa? Pib has been trying to keep track of those folks and how long it took from application to approval.

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1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Ben, what month did you obtain the Visa? Pib has been trying to keep track of those folks and how long it took from application to approval.

I didn't want the info for tracking purposes....I stopped updating that list.   If Ben had got the visa "recently" like over the last month or two I was interested in how long it took....see if BoI is getting faster in processing applications compared to 2022.  

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4 hours ago, Pib said:

@Misty

 Curiosity questions:

 

Were you issued a "5" year work permit simply because that's the standard/maximum length of a work permit under a LTR visa?   

 

Could a person ask for the work permit to be issued say only be for 1 or 2 years (i.e.., just something less than 5 years?   And if say a 1 year permit is requested then does than mean the fee is only Bt3K?  

 

Or maybe the length of the work permit is determined by the employment/employer paperwork submitted which might show planned employment length?

 

And do you have to do any "annual" report/filing related to your LTR work permit?

 

And no, I not planning on working/asking for a work permit under my LTR-P visa, I'm just curious as to if 5 year permit is the standard length issued for an LTR visa, if a shorter length is also available and a shorter length would cost less, maybe the info would be helpful to others wanting to get the work permit with their LTR visa, etc.   Just curious....hoping maybe you know off the top of your head....plus I'm too lazy to send these questions to BoI.????

 

Hi Pib, if there's a term work contract, then the work permit is issued for the term of the contract.  So it could be for 1 year, 2 years, etc.  And the price of the work permit is Bt3,000 per years the work permit is good for.

 

I own the company so have an indefinite time frame. Therefore I received the maximum allowable time period or 5 years.

 

There's no annual report filing specific to the work permit that I'm aware of, other than standard income tax filing.

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