OA health insurance requireme

[Privateer]

There has been discussion recently about the new requirement for 100,000 US Dollars health insurance rather than the existing 440,000 baht cover.   As with several others, my insurance company advised that the upcoming insurance renewal on 28th July would need to meet the new requirements of $100,000 cover.   TGIA advice was that the 440,000 cover was required for renewals before 1st September 2022.  My OAvisa is valid until 30th August despite my insurance expiring 28th July.   I pursuaded my insurer, LMG, to reluctantly renew on the old basis. and got a further 12 month permission to stay stamp. Although it did take the IO nearly an hour to process me back in (probably don’t see so many 12 month stamps on a soon to expire visa nowadays).   
 

I don’t pretend to fully understand the changeover from old to new rules but it seems to me that provided you are stamped in before 1st September then the old coverage requirement applies.   
 

 

[Tracyb]

I’m in the same boat….

I’ve  not yet heard from my LMG broker yet, tho.

I’m hoping to go for renewal before the end of August…my e of s expires on Oct 1 so I can go for it around August 15….

Edited July 28, 2022 by Tracyb

[ubonjoe]

A post quoting and a link to the Pattay Mail has been removed.

Forum rule.

Quote

16. The Bangkok Post and the Pattaya Mail do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on ASEAN NOW. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Pattaya Mail publications will be deleted from the forum.

See: https://aseannow.com/terms/

[ubonjoe]

This is about the most official info you show a insurance agents and etc.

Source: https://longstay.tgia.org/guidelineoa

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Tracyb said:

I’m hoping to go for renewal before the end of August…my e of s expires on Oct 1 so I can go for it around August 15….

I think you will have to meet the new requirements to extend a extension that ends on or after September 1st.

We will not know much more until immigration does a amendment to the immigration order stating what is required.

[Ganoga]

LMG gave me a choice when I renewed last week, between the old and new policy..

They recommended I ask my local Immigration office what they are accepting.

I went to Tha Yang Immigration to ask them about it as I renew my OA next month. Tha Yang is accepting the old 400,000/40,000 until Sept.

Go yo your local office and ask and then you'll know.

[Wrwest]

End of the O-A Visa. Only those not “googling” can possibly miss being warned off. Recommendations  only for O Visa from now on.

[drkenchao]

don't understand what you mean? isn't it 3 million baht for OA health insurance? 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, drkenchao said:

don't understand what you mean? isn't it 3 million baht for OA health insurance? 

The rules states $100,000 baht. You will see 3 or 3.5 million baht stated dependent upon the exchange rate being used.

[drkenchao]

know any visa agent who can help converting OA visa to O visa (with or without going out from thailand first),  or help with border run, re-enter and apply ALL THE WAY? what if the required protection and premium for mandatory health insurance go on every two to three years? after all, lots of pre-existing illness are not covered for protection，

 

 

[drkenchao]

but why thai immigration use USD to prescribe their requirement in their rules and regulation, and NOT in thai bahts?what if thai baht appreciates against the USD, will they reduced the 3 million baht owing to exchange rate?

[drkenchao]

i read sometime ago that mandatory health insurance was introduced suddenly in 2019 as 'many expats defrauded medical bills'. but i doubted the rationale of this strange policy. why not simplily blacklisted them for visa renewal if they are long term retirees/residents or asked for deposit before offering service? if they willing to queue and visited goverent hospitals, the medical cost is too low and govt simplily can not recover the cost with reimbursement from insurance

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, drkenchao said:

but why thai immigration use USD to prescribe their requirement in their rules and regulation, and NOT in thai bahts?what if thai baht appreciates against the USD, will they reduced the 3 million baht owing to exchange rate?

Immigration has not issued a order stating what is required for a extension after September 1st.

Check a few embassy websites for what is needed to apply for Non-OA visa.

[JimGant]

20 hours ago, drkenchao said:

don't understand what you mean? isn't it 3 million baht for OA health insurance? 

Well, here's what is says, at least so far:

Quote

The insurance coverage of the first visa application and extension ... is changed into having health insurance or social welfare covering all medical expenses including the ones for COVID-19 with the coverage of not less than 100,000 USD (3 million THB).

I interpret this, using the 'not less' phrase, as saying your coverage will always be at least 100k USD, but never less than 3M baht. So, if the baht went to 28 to 1, the 3M baht floor on coverage value would mean the equivalent USD coverage would be: 107,143 USD. Kinda difficult (and nonsensical), tho', to include FX bounces in writing insurance policies that afford coverage in baht.

 

So that's probably why LMG came out with their new policies for OA extenders to have coverages strictly in baht. But as a hedge against FX changes -- and at this juncture the USD was above the 30 to 1 break even point -- they wrote their new policies with a 3.5M baht coverage value. Hey, sounded like a good hedge at the time -- but who knew the dollar would appreciate in leaps.

 

Now, with the dollar at a midmarket rate of 36.3, they'll have to rewrite the policy to a 3.63M coverage, at least to adhere to the "no less than 100,000USD" minimum.

 

Anyway, my LMG sales agent in Chiang Mai is still stonewalling my renewal with "awaiting orders from Bangkok." Had hoped to renew my extension 45 days early, to go traveling. Sorry, TAT -- red tape will deny you my tourist spending.

[sqwakvfr]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The rules states $100,000 baht. You will see 3 or 3.5 million baht stated dependent upon the exchange rate being used.

Here is the problem when using USD for in this case.  Presently 3.5 Million Baht is just over $96K,  I have a 3.5 Million Baht health insurance policy with Pacific Cross.  Technically my policy would not qualify for a new OA or renewal of an OA.  It would be better to stick with Baht in terms of policy requirements.  But what do I know because this is TIT.  

[JimTripper]

On 7/29/2022 at 2:08 AM, Wrwest said:

End of the O-A Visa. Only those not “googling” can possibly miss being warned off. Recommendations  only for O Visa from now on.

I missed it. What's the problem?

 

Why are you so negative on this visa? We all need to have insurance so that can't be it ????‍♂️

 

How many guesses do I get?

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by JimTripper

[DrJack54]

47 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

We all need to have insurance so that can't be it

Non O based on retirement extensions does not require insurance. 

[JimGant]

23 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Here is the problem when using USD for in this case.  Presently 3.5 Million Baht is just over $96K,  I have a 3.5 Million Baht health insurance policy with Pacific Cross.  Technically my policy would not qualify for a new OA or renewal of an OA.

Indeed. That's why my post, above, where LMG early on came out with 3.5M baht policies to meet the new requirement, believing "3.5M baht" would be a sufficient FX hedge against the "$100,000 USD" requirement. As you point out, no longer -- with the rapidly appreciating dollar. By the time these clowns sort this out, I'll be in overstay. And, I've not seen anything on this forum where agents, who can pull a sleight of hand for avoiding financial requirements, can do the same for avoiding the TGIA Thai health insurance requirement. And this whole thing sucks big time for me, and other US military retirees here, who have multi billion dollar US (Tricare) health coverage -- with a mere $150 deductible. Contrast this with LMG's 3.5M baht policy -- with 1M baht deductible!  Worthless. My attempt to reach the US Air Attache, having him withhold F-16 spare parts for the RTAF's aging F-16 fleet, until they sort this out -- found nobody home -- apparently he was on the golf course (probably a non rated puke).

[JimTripper]

17 hours ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. That's why my post, above, where LMG early on came out with 3.5M baht policies to meet the new requirement, believing "3.5M baht" would be a sufficient FX hedge against the "$100,000 USD" requirement. As you point out, no longer -- with the rapidly appreciating dollar. By the time these clowns sort this out, I'll be in overstay. And, I've not seen anything on this forum where agents, who can pull a sleight of hand for avoiding financial requirements, can do the same for avoiding the TGIA Thai health insurance requirement. And this whole thing sucks big time for me, and other US military retirees here, who have multi billion dollar US (Tricare) health coverage -- with a mere $150 deductible. Contrast this with LMG's 3.5M baht policy -- with 1M baht deductible!  Worthless. My attempt to reach the US Air Attache, having him withhold F-16 spare parts for the RTAF's aging F-16 fleet, until they sort this out -- found nobody home -- apparently he was on the golf course (probably a non rated puke).

The conversion stuff sucks, but I don't think military medical covers you in Thailand.

 

You need the Thai policy no matter what visa you have if you don't want to walk around uninsured, unless you have some expensive global plan on the side.

Edited August 1, 2022 by JimTripper

[Olmate]

17 hours ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. That's why my post, above, where LMG early on came out with 3.5M baht policies to meet the new requirement, believing "3.5M baht" would be a sufficient FX hedge against the "$100,000 USD" requirement. As you point out, no longer -- with the rapidly appreciating dollar. By the time these clowns sort this out, I'll be in overstay. And, I've not seen anything on this forum where agents, who can pull a sleight of hand for avoiding financial requirements, can do the same for avoiding the TGIA Thai health insurance requirement. And this whole thing sucks big time for me, and other US military retirees here, who have multi billion dollar US (Tricare) health coverage -- with a mere $150 deductible. Contrast this with LMG's 3.5M baht policy -- with 1M baht deductible!  Worthless. My attempt to reach the US Air Attache, having him withhold F-16 spare parts for the RTAF's aging F-16 fleet, until they sort this out -- found nobody home -- apparently he was on the golf course (probably a non rated puke).

Agents do assist with the OA insurance requirement for an additional fee.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

The conversion stuff sucks, but I don't think military medical covers you in Thailand.

Yes it does.

[ubonjoe]

17 hours ago, JimGant said:

And this whole thing sucks big time for me, and other US military retirees here, who have multi billion dollar US (Tricare) health coverage -- with a mere $150 deductible.

When the order came out last year it was stated non Thai insurance would be accepted but there has been no additional Infor about what immigration will accept under the new requirements that go into effect for extensions on September 1st.

Hopefully will will see a new amendment to clause 2.22 of immigration order 327/2557 before the 1st of September.

[JimTripper]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it does.

He should just return to the States and get an O then.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

He should just return to the States and get an O then.

Why?

He can leave the country and enter visa exempt and then apply for non-o visa at immigration. Or he could apply for one at a embassy or official consulate in a neighboring country.

[JimGant]

Just heard from my LMG agent in Chiang Mai. She got the go-ahead from headquarters in Bangkok to issue me the renewal policy -- and it was for the old 40/400 amounts, even tho' the policy's effective renewal date is Sept 13, 2022. Thus, my renewal premium is as advertised in the 40/400 package, namely 16,900 baht for a 77 year old geezer. Nice that it's not 69,000 baht for the 3.5M baht policy that LMG had advertised for post Sept 1, 2022. But why do I have this uneasy feeling about going to Imm next week for my OA visa renewal -- and having an argument with the IO over the correctness of my renewal LMG policy...... Stay tuned.

[OJAS]

10 minutes ago, JimGant said:

But why do I have this uneasy feeling about going to Imm next week for my OA visa renewal -- and having an argument with the IO over the correctness of my renewal LMG policy......

Suspect that all you can do is to keep your fingers firmly crossed that the Immigration Bureau won't issue a new police order amending clause 2.22 of Police Order 327/2557 with 100,000 USD presumably expressed in THB before your trip to Immigration next week.

 

[Wrwest]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:52 AM, ubonjoe said:

Yes it does.

Agreed, Joe. 

Currently fully retired military personnel are able to receive Medicare covered healthcare through the Tricare system around the globe. Fully retired civilian personnel are excluded from receiving Medicare covered healthcare outside the US territory. All in both groups are required to have earned the retirement healthcare benefits and continue paying the Medicare, part B monthly premiums. What follows is a call for a test program to see whether extending Medicare to American Expats is both feasible and can save Medicare money. If successful, we might well see all American retirees who have earned full retirement benefits treated equally.

[soisanuk]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:56 AM, ubonjoe said:

When the order came out last year it was stated non Thai insurance would be accepted but there has been no additional Infor about what immigration will accept under the new requirements that go into effect for extensions on September 1st.

Hopefully will will see a new amendment to clause 2.22 of immigration order 327/2557 before the 1st of September.

 

A YouTube video by a law firm in Bangkok notes that that an order has been published in the Royal Gazette - the presenter showed a portion of section 6 of the Police Order for retirement extensions. He also noted the order will be effective on 1 October rather than 1 September - the following is from a screen capture of the document they showed which they represented as being an English translation of the order.

 

 

 

Quote

 

(6) Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant “O-A” Visa, must have health insurance or non-Thai social welfare covering medical expenses including the ones for Covid-19 disease with the coverage of no less than 100,000 USD or 3,000.000 baht for the entire duration of stay in the Kingdom.

 

 

(6.1)             In case of purchasing Thai health insurance, an alien can purchase through the website: longstay.tgia.org.

 

(6.2)             In case of purchasing foreign insurance or having non-Thai social welfare, it must be certified by a foreign embassy in Thailand or a signature of authorized person on submitted documents (Notary) must be certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs

 

 

It appears the 6.2 will allow a foreign insurance policy to be used, but will require a notarized certification with an Embassy official's signature which must be certified to by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by soisanuk

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, soisanuk said:

A YouTube video by a law firm in Bangkok notes that that an order has been published in the Royal Gazette - the presenter showed a portion of section 6 of the Police Order for retirement extensions. He also noted the order will be effective on 1 October rather than 1 September - the following is from a screen capture of the document they showed which they represented as being an English translation of the order.

Immigration/Police orders are not normally published in the Royal Gazette since they are under a existing ministerial order.

I just looked at immigration website and there is nothing showing a new order.

October 1st is certainly not correct. The order that came out last year stated September 1st.

[JimGant]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:38 PM, OJAS said:

Suspect that all you can do is to keep your fingers firmly crossed that the Immigration Bureau won't issue a new police order amending clause 2.22 of Police Order 327/2557 with 100,000 USD presumably expressed in THB before your trip to Immigration next week.

Actually, there's a lot of confusion/misinformation  about when the 40/400 insurance requirement gets replaced. The TGIA website mentions "Sept 1." but that's not an official site. But, there are a couple of government publications out there that mention "Oct 1" as the date the 40/400 gets replaced with the US 100k/or Thai 3M baht. The first one is actually a Police Order written Dec 27, 2021, that directs the implementation of the 3M baht/100k $ insurance requirement on Oct 1st 2022 -- and reminds that up until then, the 40/400 remains in effect. So, why are we shouting heads up for Sept 1st -- and not for Oct 1st?

 

The second mentions a "draft" Police decree that will replace the 40/400 requirement with 100k$/3M baht requirement -- on OCT 1st. I can't find a date on this health department article, but maybe it was written before the Dec 27, 2021 Police Order, and is why it is labelled "draft."

 

Anyway, I went to CM Imm today to renew my OA retirement extension, that expires 12 Sept 2022. And had no problems/discussion on why my LMG policy reflected 40/400. So, I really think all those with expiring OA extensions in Sept are still cleared for a 40/400 policy. But for expirations in Oct -- maybe the RTP Order, shown above, stands by itself in implementing the new insurance requirement, i.e., no Immigration Bureau Order needed (but I'll defer to UbonJoe on how these two agencies play footsie on these matters.....).

 

So, for age 77 renewal, I paid 16,900 for the 40/400 -- not 68,500 for the 100k $ version. Will wait a couple of months to ponder next year's goat rope.

 

 

RTP-Order-No.654-2564-1.pdf Guideline_on_Non-Immigrant_O-A_Visa-2.pdf

Edited August 24, 2022 by JimGant