Cant decide if I should get another covid booster. What about you?

[richard_smith237]

41 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I know of 3 myocarditis cases....

But you don’t know of any Myocarditis cases from those who contracted influenza ??....

 

The risk of myocarditis from acute influenza is reported to be 10%....  I’m sure you know more than 30 people who have had Flu...  why no talk of myocarditis for them?... 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It is interesting that those who are arguing ‘anti-vax’ also personally know of multiple of individuals who have ‘prove’ vaccine complications (*see comment above), when many who are not anti-vax do not know anyone who has suffered vaccine complications....  Strange that.

 

Strange indeed… Maybe a phenomenon known as denial?

[rattlesnake]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

But you don’t know of any Myocarditis cases from those who contracted influenza ??....

 

The risk of myocarditis from acute influenza is reported to be 10%....  I’m sure you know more than 30 people who have had Flu...  why no talk of myocarditis for them?... 

 

 

Before 2021 I had never known any young healthy person who suffered from myocarditis.

[rattlesnake]

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I know of 5 people who had a stroke. 4 who had a heard attack. 

I had a Pulmonary Embolism, a couple of females I know suffered a miscarriage...

 

All before the covid vaccine though....  you are right - your anecdote doesn’t prove anything coincidence is not causation....  

 

I had a P.E. in April 2020, a friend did also - brought on by Covid-19 ???.... or is it something that just happened ?... again, cause can’t be proved... coincidence is not cause. 

 

------

 

Health issues proven to be caused by a vaccine are real stats, members of this forum know of such issues diagnosed by medical specialists.... (*they were medical specialists and not just general doctors guessing it could be vaccine related right ?)... 

 

... I think I had, I’m certain it caused... etc etc... is not proof of anything. 

 

It is interesting that those who are arguing ‘anti-vax’ also personally know of multiple of individuals who have ‘prove’ vaccine complications (*see comment above), when many who are not anti-vax do not know anyone who has suffered vaccine complications....  Strange that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the people I mentioned are young and were previously healthy, their ailments began either immediately or shortly after the shots. Denying the obvious is ridiculous.

[Scott]

Myocarditis is, indeed, a problem in relation to Covid-19.  The vaccines, on rare occasions, produce mild cases as well.  The risk, however, is much greater if you actually catch Covid.  Here's a little more on it:
 

Benefits of COVID-19 vaccines outweigh a very small risk of heart complications

 

Your overall chances of getting Covid-19 are 1.3 cases in 100,000 people.  Your chances   Your chances after a vaccine are 2 in 100,000, but your chances of getting myocarditis increase to 226 per 100,000 if you actually catch Covid.  

 

That is a pretty good risk benefit to getting vaccinated if you wish to avoid myocarditis.  

 

Myocarditis occurs with other conditions and vaccines including influenza.

 

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/covid-19-vaccines-myocarditis

[mania]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

Myocarditis is, indeed, a problem in relation to Covid-19.  The vaccines, on rare occasions, produce mild cases as well.  The risk, however, is much greater if you actually catch Covid.

But that is not really the question with younger folks is it? How much of a risk really is covid to young folks?

The risk of severe illness and death from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is extremely low in children and teenagers,

I mean I dont know any young folks that caught covid & didn't easily recover

 

Do any fully recover from Myocarditis? Did the young folks need that risk?

Myocarditis is usually caused by a viral infection. A severe case can weaken the heart, which can lead to heart failure, abnormal heartbeat, and sudden death.

Symptoms include chest pain, abnormal heartbeat, and shortness of breath.

Treatment may include medication to regulate the heartbeat and improve heart function. In rare but severe cases, a device may be needed to help the heart function.

[Scott]

40 minutes ago, mania said:

But that is not really the question with younger folks is it? How much of a risk really is covid to young folks?

The risk of severe illness and death from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is extremely low in children and teenagers,

I mean I dont know any young folks that caught covid & didn't easily recover

 

Do any fully recover from Myocarditis? Did the young folks need that risk?

Myocarditis is usually caused by a viral infection. A severe case can weaken the heart, which can lead to heart failure, abnormal heartbeat, and sudden death.

Symptoms include chest pain, abnormal heartbeat, and shortness of breath.

Treatment may include medication to regulate the heartbeat and improve heart function. In rare but severe cases, a device may be needed to help the heart function.

As someone who had myocarditis as a youngster, I can tell you that unless it is caught early and treated, it can be serious.  I missed nearly an entire year of school with several months in the hospital and more at home in bed.

 

Mine was caused by a long simmering Strep infection and my heart incurred long-lasting, permanent damage.  

 

Pretty much every medication has possible side effects, some more serious than others.  I would prefer to have a short, low-level inflammation of the heart muscle that quickly resolves than a long lasting one induced by illness.  

 

Covid is a vascular disease and that should be kept in mind.  It goes far beyond just the respiratory system.  That said, it is true that the variants seem to becoming far less lethal than the original and earlier variants.   Giving any medication or vaccine is a matter of weighing the risks versus the benefits. 

 

With Covid being very transmissible and quite dangerous for some, that has to be factored into deciding about who should be vaccinated.

 

[Scott]

1 hour ago, mania said:

• But that is not really the question with younger folks is it? How much of a risk really is covid to young folks?
• The risk of severe illness and death from SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is extremely low in children and teenagers,
• I mean I dont know any young folks that caught covid & didn't easily recover
•  
• Do any fully recover from Myocarditis? Did the young folks need that risk?
• Myocarditis is usually caused by a viral infection. A severe case can weaken the heart, which can lead to heart failure, abnormal heartbeat, and sudden death.
• Symptoms include chest pain, abnormal heartbeat, and shortness of breath.
• Treatment may include medication to regulate the heartbeat and improve heart function. In rare but severe cases, a device may be needed to help the heart function.

Yes, most cases of myocarditis result in a full recovery.  The vaccine stimulates an immune response in the AC2 receptor cells.  The membrane around the heart and heart muscle are replete with these cells.  When you are vaccinated or infected, the cells react with an immune response that includes inflammation. 

 

A vaccine is a small, very short lived stimulation of an immune response.  That is why some people will experience a mild fever, some aches and pains and fatigue.  Inside, your organs are experiencing various degrees of inflammation which will go away in a short period of time. 

 

The type of inflammation of the heart is very, very  rare and almost never serious.  

 

Anyone who gets myocarditis from a vaccine will no doubt also get it from an actual infection and then the problem is dealing with two diseases at the same time. 

 

And no, myocarditis does not usually result in long term damage.  That only happens if it is not treated for a long time. 

 

 

[transam]

9 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Before 2021 I had never known any young healthy person who suffered from myocarditis.

Did everyone tell you about their doctors visits pre-2021....?

Doubt it.....

[transam]

A true story, here in LOS......

 

My friend is 80, he has been on medication for many years for heart problems etc, takes 18 tablets a day.

The hospital would not give him C19 jabs because of his condition. So he mainly stayed at home to avoid C19.

 

A few months back, his hospital told him he could not visit the hospital because he was not vaxxed, decision time, get vaxxed or no hospital, was told hospital policy...

 

So he had a Pfizer jag and wasn't well after, doctor came to his house, did some stuff, and he recovered.

 

Month went by, second jab, this time doctor, nurse, oxygen etc at his house for the jab. No problem.....

 

Now a few months later he is still alive and well, though he knows for the last 20 years every day maybe his last...

[scubascuba3]

Pop idol Darius Danesh has just died and on facebook conspiracy theorist anti vaxer types have come out on mass and already decided it's due to the vax, amazing how many come out the woodwork, i suspect it's nothing to do with the vax, we shall see

[CharlieH]

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Pop idol Darius Danesh has just died and on facebook conspiracy theorist anti vaxer types have come out on mass and already decided it's due to the vax, amazing how many come out the woodwork, i suspect it's nothing to do with the vax, we shall see

"The cause of death is not known, but his family said he was found in his US apartment."

 

Source

[peterfranks]

48 minutes ago, transam said:

Now a few months later he is still alive and well, though he knows for the last 20 years every day maybe his last...

So the moral of your story.

 

You know someone who got vaxed and didn't die.

 

Thanks for the heads up. ????

[transam]

6 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

So the moral of your story.

 

You know someone who got vaxed and didn't die.

 

Thanks for the heads up. ????

You obviously missed the point I was making, but that's OK, most anti-vaxxers do..............????............????

[Woof999]

12 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I know of 3 myocarditis cases, one woman (26 years old with no health issues) who died of a stroke 1 week after her 2nd Pfizer shot, 1 30 year-old who suffered a miscarriage, 2 people (63 and 66 years old) who developed severe arthrosis, one person who had a "health scare" after her 2nd AZ shot and spent a month in hospital (although I don't know any details), 1 who lost the use of his legs, 2 cases of debilitating tinnitus and 2 cases of chronic migraines.

You personally know of 13 people who had major health issues because of the vaccination, or you've just read about them on the interweb?

 

If 13 of your real acquaintances have had such bad reactions, I hope I don't know you, because that would appear to be the compelling factor. 

 

[scubascuba3]

29 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

"The cause of death is not known, but his family said he was found in his US apartment."

 

Source

Correct but that hasn't stopped the conspiracy theorists jumping to conclusion, he was 41

[rattlesnake]

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

You personally know of 13 people who had major health issues because of the vaccination, or you've just read about them on the interweb?

 

If 13 of your real acquaintances have had such bad reactions, I hope I don't know you, because that would appear to be the compelling factor. 

 

I personally know 3 of them, the others are friends or colleagues of people I know and trust.

 

Please spare me the lecture on "anecdotal reports which prove nothing vs. science", I know to you it's "anything but".

[transam]

6 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I personally know 3 of them, the others are friends or colleagues of people I know and trust.

 

Please spare me the lecture on "anecdotal reports which prove nothing vs. science", I know to you it's "anything but".

To make you feel better, I did get another bout of Shingles after my second jab, not the third though.......????

[Bkk Brian]

Why not respect what his family have asked:

 

“The local police department have confirmed that there were no signs of intent or suspicious circumstances. The cause of his sudden death is unknown at this stage while medical examinations continue.

“We ask that you kindly respect our wishes for privacy at this time whilst we come to terms with the tragic loss of our son and brother.”

 

[transam]

6 hours ago, BangkokHank said:

 

Time for you to come up with numbers to support your case..

 

1. How many humans have been vaccinated for C19.. 

 

2. How many human lives are estimated to have been saved by the C19 vaccine.

 

3. How many lives have been lost, directly by the C19 vaccine. 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, BangkokHank said:

 

 

In such circumstances those supportive of the vaccination simply counter the ridiculous claims made by anti-vaxxers that ‘it must be the vaccine’...... just because someone has had a vaccine it does not automatically lend to cause for any issue subsequently encountered...

 

600,000 plus people in the UK die each year... most of them have had the vaccine. 

 

[watthong]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:39 AM, transam said:

Why a different vax each time....?

Crudely speaking, imagine your immunity as a circular room with a series of entry doors. The virus is outside of that room trying to get in (into your system). Each (different) vaccine will close a number of (different) doors, but not all.

[richard_smith237]

51 minutes ago, transam said:

59 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I personally know 3 of them, the others are friends or colleagues of people I know and trust.

 

Please spare me the lecture on "anecdotal reports which prove nothing vs. science", I know to you it's "anything but".

To make you feel better, I did get another bout of Shingles after my second jab, not the third though.......????

I had ‘covid arm’... a dull ache in my arm from all of the Covid-19 vaccines, this is the body's innate immune response.. I also felt a little feverish the next day, again, the immune response...

 

The ‘negative reaction from the vaccine’...  is similar to the bodies response from many other vaccines taken.... 

 

Now... there are serious issues that the vaccines have caused... it would appear that in very rare cases the mRNA vaccination can cause myocarditis - JAMA article suggests 9 out 1 million vaccinated people show symptoms which last a couple of days and could be attributed to myocarditis.

Reports also suggest that there is a greater risk of developing myocarditis from the Pfizer vaccine than Moderna - but there has also been greater hysteria surrounding Pfizer in Europe, so this statistic could be distorted by local concern rather than any genuine statistical difference. 

 

There is also the risk of VITT...  this risk is not specific to covid vaccines through, this risk is present with most vaccines to the same almost infinitesimally small factor. 

 

The above mentioned risk factors which do exist with the mRNA and conventional vaccines (myocarditis and Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia and also Thrombosis) are also present in many every day factors of our lives, such as catching colds, suffering from Influenza, alcohol consumption, even certain foods can increase the risk factors.....  

... And of course, one of the the biggest risks of both thrombosis and myocarditis is Covid-19 itself...

 

The risks of facing these issues from ‘ever day factors’ is significantly greater than that presented from takin vaccines (any of them) and also mRNA vaccines. 

 

So.. for those who are considering ’not taking the vaccine’ because they believe the risk of Myocarditis is too high...  they should perhaps spend great efforts avoiding Influenza, avoid red mean, avoid high-fat dairy products, cut down on salt, avoid alcohol..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BangkokHank]

1 hour ago, transam said:

To make you feel better, I did get another bout of Shingles after my second jab, not the third though.......????

Why would that make him feel better? He's trying to convince people NOT to get vaccinated - so they can AVOID such side effects - and much worse ones.

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I had ‘covid arm’... a dull ache in my arm from all of the Covid-19 vaccines, this is the body's innate immune response.. I also felt a little feverish the next day, again, the immune response...

 

The ‘negative reaction from the vaccine’...  is similar to the bodies response from many other vaccines taken.... 

 

Now... there are serious issues that the vaccines have caused... it would appear that in very rare cases the mRNA vaccination can cause myocarditis - JAMA article suggests 9 out 1 million vaccinated people show symptoms which last a couple of days and could be attributed to myocarditis.

Reports also suggest that there is a greater risk of developing myocarditis from the Pfizer vaccine than Moderna - but there has also been greater hysteria surrounding Pfizer in Europe, so this statistic could be distorted by local concern rather than any genuine statistical difference. 

 

There is also the risk of VITT...  this risk is not specific to covid vaccines through, this risk is present with most vaccines to the same almost infinitesimally small factor. 

 

The above mentioned risk factors which do exist with the mRNA and conventional vaccines (myocarditis and Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia and also Thrombosis) are also present in many every day factors of our lives, such as catching colds, suffering from Influenza, alcohol consumption, even certain foods can increase the risk factors.....  

... And of course, one of the the biggest risks of both thrombosis and myocarditis is Covid-19 itself...

 

The risks of facing these issues from ‘ever day factors’ is significantly greater than that presented from takin vaccines (any of them) and also mRNA vaccines. 

 

So.. for those who are considering ’not taking the vaccine’ because they believe the risk of Myocarditis is too high...  they should perhaps spend great efforts avoiding Influenza, avoid red mean, avoid high-fat dairy products, cut down on salt, avoid alcohol..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless, of course, the real numbers regarding vaccine-induced myocarditis are higher than what is reported, due to the underreporting factor of passive reporting systems as demonstrated in the study I posted a couple of days ago here (which concludes these systems often only capture 10-20% of actual cases), combined with the conflicts of interests of media outlets who are paid by pharmaceutical companies to portray them and their products favorably (I posted a link to an article about this a few days ago in this thread, JAMA is one of the said paid media). These companies have a demonstrated history of hiding controversial data for profit and then just paying damages if/when they lose a court case, which are a fraction of the profits they made.

 

Hence my reliance on empirical data which is all we have (as well as alternative, independent media of course, which are not always unbiased but do provide an interesting counterpoint).

[Bday Prang]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:44 PM, connda said:

Why is it that everyone I know who have had the shots have also had Covid.
In my personal circle of friends, family, and acquaintance - every fully vaxxed person has contracted Covid.

 

Likewise  the only people I know who haven't had it are all unvaxxed

[Lacessit]

23 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Real-world (a.k.a. empirical) observations are made by actual people based on what they experience and see in their day-to-day lives. As I said yesterday, the issue is becoming so overwhelming that it can't be ignored any longer and denying the obvious is preposterous at this point.

What is preposterous is the selective cherry-picking of adverse data to suit the anti-vaxxer argument, when the statistics world-wide indicate getting jabbed drastically reduces the probability of dying, being admitted to an ICU, or developing long COVID.

 

What is preposterous is COVID anti-vaxxers who shriek to high heaven about those vaccines, when they have very probably been inoculated against polio, typhoid, tetanus, whooping cough, Hep A and flu, without any ill effects. Permit me to doubt there are many whose bodies are completely unsullied by a needle.

 

What is preposterous is those same anti-vaxxers who reject medical science, seeking the best medical assistance they can afford if they happen to break a bone, or come down with any painful condition. Quite happy to accept the help of Big Pharma then.

 

The anti-vaxxer belief system reminds me of those religions that reject life-saving blood transfusions for their adherents.

 

There are instances of unvaccinated COVID patients being wheeled into ICU wards begging for vaccination, I guess that's heresy. Or recanting their beliefs.

[Bday Prang]

13 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Before 2021 I had never known any young healthy person who suffered from myocarditis.

before 2021 I had never ever heard of myocarditis

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Utterly ridiculous and fundamentally flawed bias...  these ‘you’re either with us or against us’ statements are moronic.... 

 

In such circumstances those supportive of the vaccination simply counter the ridiculous claims made by anti-vaxxers that ‘it must be the vaccine’...... just because someone has had a vaccine it does not automatically lend to cause for any issue subsequently encountered...

 

600,000 plus people in the UK die each year... most of them have had the vaccine. 

 

 

I'm afraid post hoc ergo propter hoc - after this, therefore because of this, is the only logic train an anti-vaxxer can follow. No other explanation allowed.

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'm afraid post hoc ergo propter hoc - after this, therefore because of this, is the only logic train an anti-vaxxer can follow. No other explanation allowed.

Unfortunately posters of such comments fail to identify the flaw in their 'Post hoc fallacy’ and believe they are presenting sound argument.