Special Feature: What happens when a foreigner dies in Thailand???

[webfact]

 

PHOTO: Pattaya City Hospital

 

By Adam Judd

 

ONE A DAY

 

Editor’s note: The following is a submission by the American Legion Post TH02 in Pattaya Thailand. It focuses specifically on a US military combat veteran, however, gives a lot of insight behind the scenes into what happens in general when a foreign national passes away in Thailand. This is part one of four that we will post over the next week or so. -Adam Judd, Chief Editor, The Pattaya News English

 

Chapter 1

On average one US citizen passes away in Thailand. ONE a day.

This death begins a series of events that involve many different individuals from a variety of organizations. For us, that day was 25 July 2022. On that day the ONE individual who passed away was a US Navy Combat Veteran. ONE US Veteran of the hundreds that die daily.  I want to try and share our experience and involvement with this ONE US Veteran. We are members of the American Legion Post TH02 in Pattaya Thailand. 

 

On the 25th of July, a US Navy Combat Veteran passed away quietly in his hotel room in Pattaya. That was the day the owner and wife of the hotel discovered our Veteran association. The hotel owners start this process with a call to the local Pattaya police. 

 

A Pattaya police officer responded to the hotel. He immediately secured the room and called for an ambulance. The ambulance responded and transported our veteran to the nearest public hospital.  The veteran arrives at the hospital where the attending physician makes the declaration of death. 

 

The police officer in the meantime continues with his investigation. He searches through the personal possessions to establish an ID of the individual.  He secures the veteran’s possessions and takes them to the police station to begin his task. The room is secured and the hotel staff is instructed to keep the room locked until he releases it.

 

Full story: https://thepattayanews.com/2022/08/16/special-feature-one-a-day-part-one-what-happens-when-a-foreigner-dies-in-thailand/

 

-- © Copyright The Pattaya News 2022-08-17

 

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[KIngsofisaan]

I care about people I know and love dying.

 

Are there any facts that 1 US citizen dies everday in Thailand?

 

Will I read a 4 part story into how a veteran died, as told by the American Legion Post?

 

Absolutely not.

 

How I die in Isaan won't be a 4 part story, won't be hailed by the American Legion

 

It will be quite simple reason

 

Up in Smoke with Cheech and Chong in the local temple

 

It won't make the news

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by KIngsofisaan

[TooMuchTime]

11 minutes ago, KIngsofisaan said:

I care about people I know and love dying.

 

Are there any facts that 1 US citizen dies everday in Thailand?

 

Will I read a 4 part story into how a veteran died, as told by the American Legion Post?

 

Absolutely not.

 

How I die in Isaan won't be a 4 part story, won't be hailed by the American Legion

 

It will be quite simple reason

 

Up in Smoke with Cheech and Chong in the local temple

 

It won't make the news

 

What a disgusting response.

[scubascuba3]

26 minutes ago, KIngsofisaan said:

I care about people I know and love dying.

 

Are there any facts that 1 US citizen dies everday in Thailand?

 

Will I read a 4 part story into how a veteran died, as told by the American Legion Post?

 

Absolutely not.

 

How I die in Isaan won't be a 4 part story, won't be hailed by the American Legion

 

It will be quite simple reason

 

Up in Smoke with Cheech and Chong in the local temple

 

It won't make the news

 

It's an example of the processes involved, the combat's veterans name isn't even mentioned. Just makes me wonder how different to other nationalities dying

[KIngsofisaan]

51 minutes ago, TooMuchTime said:

What a disgusting response.

Don't like it don't read it

 

Pretty simple

 

I am not the one writing these trolling articles

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Just now, KIngsofisaan said:

Don't like it don't read it

 

Pretty simple

 

I am not the one writing these trolling articles

 

 

nothing trolling about the article, unlike your response. The article explains the process which many will be interested in

[JimTripper]

That's what happens pretty much anywhere, unless your already in a hospital, or have family with you.

 

There are procedures in place when a body is found. Even if your old, lonely and skint you will likely find a burial somewhere even if it's in a common grave.

 

And that's Ok, because it's all you really need...????

 

Please rest in peace soldier, we are sorry this happened to you, but your allowed to move on now, beyond the rainbow, to fight many more battles, with angels at your side, please find peace...

[KIngsofisaan]

37 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

nothing trolling about the article, unlike your response. The article explains the process which many will be interested in

What exactly did you learn that you should have already known?

 

How did the Thai owners of the hotel know he was a US Navy Combat Veteran and discover the American Legion in Pattaya upon his death?

 

Really? Come on man! 

 

 I want to try and share our experience and involvement with this ONE US Veteran - Adam Judd, Chief Editor, The Pattaya News English

 

Our Experience?

 

Did someone from the hotel personally call Adam Judd just so he could write this story, which is posted by the op Webfact?

 

Why is the Pattaya English News even involved? Who informed them to come write a story?

 

He searches through the personal possessions to establish an ID of the individual.  He secures the veteran’s possessions and takes them to the police station to begin his task

 

Was the reporter physically there onsight witnessing this? Did the Pattaya police officer call the news man to come write a story of this man's death? How did the reporter know the police went through his personal possessions? How did the reported know he secures the veteran's possessions and took them to the police station? Did the police secure all the man's clothes and furniture (i.e. possessions?)

 

Come on man this whole thing is preposterous!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by KIngsofisaan

[wombat]

My take on me dieing in LOS is I become someone else's problem.

[Gottfrid]

What happens? I guess that one will be same dead as in any other country.

[Kerryd]

The process is pretty straight forward and doesn't require a multi-part story.

From personal experience (when my father died here in 2010).

Dad was in the hospital (age 77 - late stage lung cancer) when he died.
No need for autopsy. (If the cause of death is known, they don't need to do an autopsy.)

Assuming you are the next of kin/legal guardian.

1. Hospital issues Death Certificate. (Body taken to the morgue.)
2. Death Certificate has to be take to City Hall (to be authenticated or something).
3. Death Certificate and passport of the deceased taken to national Embassy. (Passport is cancelled. Get Death Certificate translated and notarized copies made.)
4. Embassy issues Letter authorizing disposal of the body.
5. With copies of the Death Certificate and Letter from the Embassy, make an appointment at whichever temple you like for a cremation ceremony. 
6. Make arrangements to move the body from the morgue to the temple on the appropriate day. 

Notes:
* The Embassy should try to contact next of kin if possible. If you are the next of kin, you need that letter from the Embassy authorizing you to dispose of the body, either locally (in Thailand) or transported back home (at your expense of course).
* You HAVE to have that Letter authorizing you to dispose of the body. The temple can't do a cremation without it.
* Cremation ceremonies can be one day affairs up to 5 days. But if the body has been in the morgue for a few days, they will want to do a "one and done" ceremony.
* You will be expected to dispose of the ashes the morning after the cremation.

That's pretty much it as far as Thailand is concerned.

Many foreigners won't have a Last Will and Testament which will muck things up a lot. Normally in Thailand, you have to wait 45 days before you can go to court to have the Will probated (read and approved by a judge).
(Got to have time for people, including any possible family members and/or creditors to lay claim to the assets.)

You can't dispose of any of the deceased's assets before then.

Which means someone has to pay for the cremation and (presumably) storage of personal effects.

I was the heir and only relative when my dad died. I paid for everything of course. Due to work issues, it was nearly 3 months before I could get back and go to court to have the Will probated (Dad did have a Will in Thailand and one in Canada as well).

I had to make a trip "home" later that year to notify the various gov't agencies (hence the need for the notarized copies of the translation of the Death Certificate) and to get his (Canadian) Will probated.

Most of that won't apply here though, as I doubt too many "bar stool buddies" are going to put much (if any) effort into settling someone's affairs (and paying out a wad of cash in the process).

Final Note - If you die in Thailand and don't have a Will, your relatives (if any) are screwed. Basically, the "gov't" (City Hall presumably) would take control of any personal effects and, if no claims are made against the estate, dispose of them after a period of 7 years.

A friend of mine died some years ago. Old Vietnam Vet. He actually travelled back the USA after he got sick and died there.
But he left assets in Thailand, including vehicles and money in the bank. No one could touch any of it because he didn't have a Will. Even his sister in the USA. 
She could have flown here and petitioned the court and maybe they would have given her his stuff but apparently she didn't want to make the trip or something.
So what will happen is that, after a period of time, his bank account will go "dormant" and after about 7 years, they will close it. I'm guessing any assets he had will have long since disappeared.

What if a foreigner dies and there's no one to do anything ?
Basically, the body would be taken to the hospital for an autopsy.
The Embassy would be notified. The body would stay in the morgue.
If the Embassy can't find any relatives, they would be expected to authorize the disposal of the body.
(I'm guessing City Hall would then make the arrangements with a temple for a "pauper's" cremation and the temple staff would dispose of the ashes.)
As to the person's assets, who knows ? Probably gone to whoever got there first.

By rights, any money in the bank would stay there until 7 years have passed. Then the account would be closed and the money (in theory) transferred to the (Federal) government.

If it is a friend of yours, you can go the "e-beggar" route, set up a GoFundMe and try to cash in (by claiming you need the money to settle his affairs and pay for his funeral).

(A few years ago some "Youtube" guy that was worth a bit of money died in Thailand. His relatives didn't want to spend their own money so they set up a GoFundMe with a ridiculous amount, like $100,000 US, to travel to Thailand to get the body and fly it home. I'm guessing after they spent a couple weeks in 5 star hotels and flying back and forth on chartered jets.)
 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Kerryd

[IAMHERE]

1 hour ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Don't like it don't read it

 

Pretty simple

 

I am not the one writing these trolling articles

 

 

YOU could have stopped reading the article at anytime, a response of your nature wasn't warranted. 

"

Editor’s note: The following is a submission by the American Legion Post TH02 in Pattaya Thailand. It focuses specifically on a US military combat veteran, however, gives a lot of insight behind the scenes into what happens in general when a foreign national passes away in Thailand. This is part one of four that we will post over the next week or so. -Adam Judd, Chief Editor, The Pattaya News English"

There will be THREE more parts; you probably don't want to click on those.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by IAMHERE
spelling

[JimTripper]

There's something weird about dying on foreign soil I just can't verbalize. Something not right about it.

Edited August 17, 2022 by JimTripper

[drgoon]

3 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

What a disgusting response.

Why??

[Peterw42]

The article is probably a good idea, even just to clear up some of the myths associated with the topic. Its concerning how many people are of the belief that their home country government will arrange and pay to transport a body home, arrange and pay for a funeral in Thailand, investigate the death or take care of possessions, wills etc.

The most any government will do is inform next of kin, get hold of death certificate and provide the equivalent document for home country, and give the next of kin some contact numbers for body repatriation, funerals etc.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Peterw42

[tandor]

1 hour ago, wombat said:

My take on me dieing in LOS is I become someone else's problem.

please don't take offence....

It would be good if you could get some documents prepared for those who have to dispose of your body.... all your private stuff can be sorted out later for sure. A simple Stat. Dec. from your next of kin (if you are not legally married here) will enable burial/cremation. 

[Wuvu2]

Gee whiz, the forums have become plagued with hissy fits between posters.  

 

I think it started in the cannabis forum with a couple of guys overdoing it on the  grumpy strains. Now you can smell it just about everywhere ????  

[Orinoco]

2 minutes ago, Wuvu2 said:

Gee whiz, the forums have become plagued with hissy fits between posters.  

 

I think it started in the cannabis forum with a couple of guys overdoing it on the  grumpy strains. Now you can smell it just about everywhere ????  

No it didn't, it started in the pub forum.

so there. 

[Orinoco]

20 minutes ago, tandor said:

please don't take offence....

It would be good if you could get some documents prepared for those who have to dispose of your body.... all your private stuff can be sorted out later for sure. A simple Stat. Dec. from your next of kin (if you are not legally married here) will enable burial/cremation. 

Also make sure your loved one,  have access to ample funds to cover all

that needs to be done.

[MrMuddle]

5 minutes ago, Wuvu2 said:

Gee whiz, the forums have become plagued with hissy fits between posters.  

 

I think it started in the cannabis forum with a couple of guys overdoing it on the  grumpy strains. Now you can smell it just about everywhere ????  

It's always been like this, in the TV/AN forums. The folks that deal with Visa problems are excellent, as are several other leaders of the various sub forums, but a lot of the members are way too opinionated, and self righteous. For some reason Thailand, and knowledge of it, seems to brings out the worst in them. The modern keyboard warrior mode of many is also sadly, a contributing factor. I've found a good "rule of thumb", is to check how many posts a person has made. If it's a huge amount, (mods excepted obviously), then usually that person seems to exist purely to cause chaos on here.

I'm looking forward to seeing the replies to this, as I can guarantee I won't be able to read most of them, as they will already be on my ignore list. lol
Seriously, why spend your days being as obnoxious as you can to others, in the forums on here, or trying to wind others up? 

[JimTripper]

24 minutes ago, tandor said:

please don't take offence....

It would be good if you could get some documents prepared for those who have to dispose of your body.... all your private stuff can be sorted out later for sure. A simple Stat. Dec. from your next of kin (if you are not legally married here) will enable burial/cremation. 

I don't have any children and I would not necessarily want my next of kin making any arrangements.

[JimTripper]

5 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

It's always been like this, in the TV/AN forums. The folks that deal with Visa problems are excellent, as are several other leaders of the various sub forums, but a lot of the members are way too opinionated, and self righteous. For some reason Thailand, and knowledge of it, seems to brings out the worst in them. The modern keyboard warrior mode of many is also sadly, a contributing factor. I've found a good "rule of thumb", is to check how many posts a person has made. If it's a huge amount, (mods excepted obviously), then usually that person seems to exist purely to cause chaos on here.

I'm looking forward to seeing the replies to this, as I can guarantee I won't be able to read most of them, as they will already be on my ignore list. lol
Seriously, why spend your days being as obnoxious as you can to others, in the forums on here, or trying to wind others up? 

It used to be much worse years ago back when it was thai visa. almost every thread had people insulting each other. sometimes i was even afraid to read the responses.

 

people used to get banned constantly and come in with new accounts. you could guess who it was occassionally.

Edited August 17, 2022 by JimTripper

[maddermax]

I have had a couple of friends die here Pattaya who lived on their own. They weren't found for a week by friends. The police then came in and cleared our all personal belongings as there was no immediately visible last will and testament. In one case, the relatives came from the USA to show the police the will and recover his belongings. However, they never recovered his war medals which had disappeared.

In the other case, the Government took possession as nobody came to claim the body.

If you have any property in Thailand it is essential that you make a Thai will and ensure that the provisions are included in any other overseas wills.

[CMBob]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

.....A friend of mine died some years ago. Old Vietnam Vet. He actually travelled back the USA after he got sick and died there.
But he left assets in Thailand, including vehicles and money in the bank. No one could touch any of it because he didn't have a Will. Even his sister in the USA. 
She could have flown here and petitioned the court and maybe they would have given her his stuff but apparently she didn't want to make the trip or something.
So what will happen is that, after a period of time, his bank account will go "dormant" and after about 7 years, they will close it. I'm guessing any assets he had will have long since disappeared.....

That scenario is possible if nobody did anything; however, given the deceased  left "vehicles and money in a bank" here in Thailand, it would be foolish not to file probate proceedings here.  Ultimately an order would be issued by the court transferring those assets to somebody [to some relative(s) of the deceased per the provisions of Thai intestacy laws].  The only viable reason not to do so is if the assets here in Thailand have less real value than the hassle and expense of the probate proceedings (i.e., if the value is less than a few thousand US dollars, it may not be worth the bother).

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

There's something weird about dying on foreign soil I just can't verbalize. Something not right about it.

Yet many have, either in foreign wars or while residing in a foreign country.  Best to have all of your affairs in order so you significant other and heirs have it all in writing as to your wishes and have those items registered with the courts here and back in your home country.

[sawadee1947]

4 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

What a disgusting response.

I can't see why it is disgusting. It's just a precise description how it works here. ????

[Orinoco]

37 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

It's always been like this, in the TV/AN forums. The folks that deal with Visa problems are excellent, as are several other leaders of the various sub forums, but a lot of the members are way too opinionated, and self righteous. For some reason Thailand, and knowledge of it, seems to brings out the worst in them. The modern keyboard warrior mode of many is also sadly, a contributing factor. I've found a good "rule of thumb", is to check how many posts a person has made. If it's a huge amount, (mods excepted obviously), then usually that person seems to exist purely to cause chaos on here.

I'm looking forward to seeing the replies to this, as I can guarantee I won't be able to read most of them, as they will already be on my ignore list. lol
Seriously, why spend your days being as obnoxious as you can to others, in the forums on here, or trying to wind others up? 

It's only a Forum, that's all it is.

Not to be taken to serious.

But If you ask a question you will nearly always get the answer.

 

[grain]

Interesting topic and one I've been meaning to ask about myself. In my own case I live in Thailand in a de facto relationship. I'm registered with immigration at my Thai partner's address, she owns the land and house. And I made a will with Thai lawyers that covers my Thailand assets, and names my Thai partner as the sole beneficiary. Would she qualify as NOK in Thailand? And if not is there some way to legally make her my NOK (but not by marriage)? I do have some relatives in Australia but they couldn't give a rat's ass, so if/when I cash in my chips in Thailand having my Thai partner handle all the NOK duties is the best situation.

[Wuvu2]

So what happens if you die here without any family or friends? Lets say my condo staff follows the smell and finds me bloated on the sofa, surrounded by Indian Viagra knockoffs and empty bottles of jack Daniels. What then?

[connda]

5 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Will I read a 4 part story into how a veteran died, as told by the American Legion Post?

 

Absolutely not.

Nor I.  Served eight years in the US military during the Cold War.  Cold War vets are non-entities to organizations like the American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars.  Even the VA from my perspective. 

AN should try to accommodate the average, long-stay US ex-pat, like those of us who have been here 5, 10, 15, or 20+ years with the intentions of living here until we die - either married to a Thai or retired instead of focusing the process for a US 'combat vet.'  That's a niche into which a lot of us don't fit.
Try outlining the process for "most US expats."  Whatever.

Edited August 17, 2022 by connda