Sukhumvit is falling down, literally

[RandolphGB]

It's been clear to me for a few years that Sukhumvit cannot last, especially the bars and massage shops of lower Sukhumvit, because physically the town houses are very poorly built and will slowly start to crumble and collapse.

 

Combine this with subsidence, lack or rain, poor drainage and the continued building of tower blocks and the process will be accelerated. 

 

It has emerged today that buildings are literally starting to fall down already.  https://www.khaosod.co.th/special-stories/news_7224115

 

Of course, when I mentioned this theory to an estate agent earlier this year they laughed and said the properties were like gold dust. No, the buildings are worthless. The land, may have value, but if developers can't build on the land because it's sinking and the structures are toppling over, the land is pretty useless.

 

[HidyHo]

If you bothered to actually read the linked article, the building in question is located at Sukhumvit 101/1  which is between BTS Punnawithi and Udomsuk (much closer to Bang Na than the lower Suk).

[spidermike007]

I spoke to a realtor about a lot that was just off Suk, many years ago. Was curious about what the land was worth. Turned out it was around 10X the going rate of prime property in the center of the commercial district, in Beverly Hills. What can one say? 

 

Alot of the money we see in Thailand these days is from land bought 50 to 100 years ago, for a hundred baht a rai, which is now worth billions of baht. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by spidermike007

[RandolphGB]

25 minutes ago, HidyHo said:

If you bothered to actually read the linked article, the building in question is located at Sukhumvit 101/1  which is between BTS Punnawithi and Udomsuk (much closer to Bang Na than the lower Suk).

The same properties are found all along Sukhumvit Road,. I know where Sukhumvit 101 is .

[FritsSikkink]

9 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

The same properties are found all along Sukhumvit Road,. I know where Sukhumvit 101 is .

Sukhumvit road runs all the way to Cambodia

[Rampant Rabbit]

Pah, they  cant even get electric  poles in from new  straight by me, many been propped  up with  another one at 30 dgree angles.

[MarleyMarl]

Some of these shop houses have been standing for 80+ years, I doubt they're going anywhere fast.

[thailand49]

The entire Bangkok is sinking under water what is new? 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:54 PM, RandolphGB said:

Sukhumvit is falling down

Didn't the song go 

 

'London Bridge is falling down' 

 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:54 PM, RandolphGB said:

poorly built and will slowly start to crumble and collapse.

Combine this with subsidence, lack or rain, poor drainage

Move down to Pattaya. 

 

Rock solid here. 

 

 

[Blue Muton]

On 8/22/2022 at 1:38 PM, RandolphGB said:

I know where Sukhumvit 101 is .

So do I, it’s where Mrs BM used to live before she became Mrs BM.

[KhaoNiaw]

It's right at one of the entrance/exits for True Digital Park. Any problems with the shops in front there could be related to the construction that went into that building perhaps? 

Edited August 23, 2022 by KhaoNiaw

[richard_smith237]

This is also a very prominent discussion in Thai social media.... 

 

Its a major issue which we will see more off.

 

Many many old buildings, either poorly constructed (poor foundations) or more recent (30 year old buildings) built to question able code, or not following code at all. 

 

Whatever happens, property all over Bangkok is in dire need of ‘decommissioning’ or serious renovation.....   there are some very large buildings which will cost a lot to demolish safely... 

 

I wonder how many ‘incidents’ (tragedies) we may see as buildings fail over the next few decades. 

[manolothai]

Pisa tower! An original one! Not a replica!

 

Tourist attraction ????

[The Hammer2021]

On 8/22/2022 at 1:38 PM, RandolphGB said:

The same properties are found all along Sukhumvit Road,. I know where Sukhumvit 101 is .

Its not low suk!

[OneMoreFarang]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:54 PM, RandolphGB said:

The land, may have value, but if developers can't build on the land because it's sinking and the structures are toppling over, the land is pretty useless.

The land is sinking and because of that...

 

How often do people repeat that? And do they think this is true because they repeat it again and again?

Maybe open your eyes and look at reality for a moment before you post about things which you don't understand.

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Its not low suk!

What he writes doesn't make much sense in any part of Sukhumvit Road. So one more mistake in his text doesn't really matter. 

[bangkok19]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is also a very prominent discussion in Thai social media.... 

 

Its a major issue which we will see more off.

 

Many many old buildings, either poorly constructed (poor foundations) or more recent (30 year old buildings) built to question able code, or not following code at all. 

 

Whatever happens, property all over Bangkok is in dire need of ‘decommissioning’ or serious renovation.....   there are some very large buildings which will cost a lot to demolish safely... 

 

I wonder how many ‘incidents’ (tragedies) we may see as buildings fail over the next few decades. 

I remember when they built (what is now) The Hilton Millenium Hotel on the Chao Phraya River.  It was originally going to be a Sofitel Hotel.  For a couple of years it stood there empty.

One afternoon I was having a few beers in THE BAARN, an old (long gone) Bar in Patpong 1.  I was talking to an engineer who was working on the (then) construction of the Baiyoke Tower, the tall bldg with the turret skywalk.

He was teling me the Sofitel on the River has been officially "condemned" because of unstable footings/foundations.

A few days later I took a ferry across the River, and the ferry exit up to the main road went right past the "condemned bldg.  There were already cracks in the concrete walls at ground level.

An accident waiting to happen?

The building stood empty for quite a while.

Some time later (maybe 1 year) I was doing a Dinner Cruise along the river at night and as we cruised passed the hotel I could see lights on in some of the rooms.

Long story short..  it was supposedly repaired and rendered 'safe' for habitation and rebranded The Hilton Millenium.

 

These days when I'm having a quiet Chardy up in the 360 Bar, looking around at all the 'other' construction...   my mind wanders back to the late 90's and what I'm sitting above.

There are strict regulations regarding building height v ground level footings sq metres.  The engineer was telling me that (because of unsafe ground subsidence in Greater Bangkok) the lower floors (at ground level and below) have to have a greater area (sq m) as well as depth (foundation /footings) in relation to building height.

When you look at that building, (Baiyoke) your attention is drawn to the height...  however the bottom floors take up a very large area.

 

Which reminds me of a new Apartment bldg completed early this year in the Ratchadapisek area, very close to the new Queen Sirikit National Convention Centre.  It's close to 32 levels and built on a very small block.

Neighbours tell me it's development application was continually knocked back until one day...  the concrete mixer trucks turned up.  Payments involved?????

 

Me hopes the building doesn't come down during the upcoming APEC Conference across the road...  not a good look! 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:54 PM, RandolphGB said:

It's been clear to me for a few years that Sukhumvit cannot last

You're a glass half empty guy, doom and gloomer, it's OK, have a coffee and chill dude. 

I'm sure similar building construction stories where you come from. 

 

Same happens in Australia, lots of Dodgy workmanship etc. 

Recently I read an apartment block in Sydney has been condemned shortly after completion, residents had to relocate.  Uninhabitable 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by SAFETY FIRST

[userabcd]

On 8/22/2022 at 2:48 PM, Rampant Rabbit said:

Pah, they  cant even get electric  poles in from new  straight by me, many been propped  up with  another one at 30 dgree angles.

Depends on what the electric pole supports and the tension direction of the cables. Quite normal to have a diagonal support (diagonal tension cables or resistance diagonal pole) if the additional support warrants it to keep the cable post from falling over.

Edited August 24, 2022 by userabcd

[userabcd]

In the first photo the blue building seems to be normal alongside the adjacent row of buildings. In the 2nd photo the building looks to be leaning forward. It could be an optical illusion or the way the photos are taken.

 

Anyway these building have been standing for at least 50 years and everyone knows the ground is moving in Bangkok as it is completely built on a soft marine clay about 20m thick and most piled foundations go down about 30m and even deeper.

Edited August 24, 2022 by userabcd

[userabcd]

4 hours ago, bangkok19 said:

I remember when they built (what is now) The Hilton Millenium Hotel on the Chao Phraya River.  It was originally going to be a Sofitel Hotel.  For a couple of years it stood there empty.

One afternoon I was having a few beers in THE BAARN, an old (long gone) Bar in Patpong 1.  I was talking to an engineer who was working on the (then) construction of the Baiyoke Tower, the tall bldg with the turret skywalk.

He was teling me the Sofitel on the River has been officially "condemned" because of unstable footings/foundations.

A few days later I took a ferry across the River, and the ferry exit up to the main road went right past the "condemned bldg.  There were already cracks in the concrete walls at ground level.

An accident waiting to happen?

The building stood empty for quite a while.

Some time later (maybe 1 year) I was doing a Dinner Cruise along the river at night and as we cruised passed the hotel I could see lights on in some of the rooms.

Long story short..  it was supposedly repaired and rendered 'safe' for habitation and rebranded The Hilton Millenium.

 

These days when I'm having a quiet Chardy up in the 360 Bar, looking around at all the 'other' construction...   my mind wanders back to the late 90's and what I'm sitting above.

There are strict regulations regarding building height v ground level footings sq metres.  The engineer was telling me that (because of unsafe ground subsidence in Greater Bangkok) the lower floors (at ground level and below) have to have a greater area (sq m) as well as depth (foundation /footings) in relation to building height.

When you look at that building, (Baiyoke) your attention is drawn to the height...  however the bottom floors take up a very large area.

 

Which reminds me of a new Apartment bldg completed early this year in the Ratchadapisek area, very close to the new Queen Sirikit National Convention Centre.  It's close to 32 levels and built on a very small block.

Neighbours tell me it's development application was continually knocked back until one day...  the concrete mixer trucks turned up.  Payments involved?????

 

Me hopes the building doesn't come down during the upcoming APEC Conference across the road...  not a good look! 

So was the engineer giving his barstool opinion a basic construction engineer or one of the specialized professional Architectural, geotechnical or structural consulting engineers involved in the actual design of the building?

[NorthernRyland]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:22 AM, spidermike007 said:

Alot of the money we see in Thailand these days is from land bought 50 to 100 years ago, for a hundred baht a rai, which is now worth billions of baht. 

Thai land is hilariously overvalued. Sure they can ask but does anyone buy? Not far from where I live in about 20k Chiang Mai center I just saw about 0.75 acres for 380,000 USD. They must think a property developer is going to buy it and put up some higher end homes. Sounds crazy to me.

 

[bangon04]

20 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Didn't the song go 

 

'London Bridge is falling down' 

 

then they sold it to an American......

[khunjeff]

12 hours ago, userabcd said:

So was the engineer giving his barstool opinion a basic construction engineer or one of the specialized professional Architectural, geotechnical or structural consulting engineers involved in the actual design of the building?

The story about the would-be Sofitel being condemned for being unstable was widely reported at the time, so that's not a barstool myth. I don't know what they eventually did to render the building habitable. 

[KIngsofisaan]

12 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Thai land is hilariously overvalued. Sure they can ask but does anyone buy? Not far from where I live in about 20k Chiang Mai center I just saw about 0.75 acres for 380,000 USD. They must think a property developer is going to buy it and put up some higher end homes. Sounds crazy to me.

 

0.75 acres is only enougth for 1 home

[thainet]

12 minutes ago, KIngsofisaan said:

0.75 acres is only enougth for 1 home

Dont be silly mate...it is nearly 2 rai, and enough for at least 6, maybe more homes. Many new devlopment, middle of the road, standalone houses are only 80-100 sqm of land.

(if townhouses then double that figure).

Edited August 24, 2022 by thainet

[NorthernRyland]

31 minutes ago, thainet said:

Dont be silly mate...it is nearly 2 rai, and enough for at least 6, maybe more homes. Many new devlopment, middle of the road, standalone houses are only 80-100 sqm of land.

(if townhouses then double that figure).

You could maybe put 6 small homes in there. The land was 12.4 million baht so each house is 2mil for just for the land. So maybe a 4-5 million baht house could make back the developer some money. With a 2 mil per house land cost this is already getting upper class so I doubt they want a little cheapy 1 story 50sqm house. With a GDP per capita at about 10k USD per year I don't see how people can afford a 140k USD house unless you're very wealthy.  The only thing seems like a fantasy to me.

[KIngsofisaan]

3 hours ago, thainet said:

Dont be silly mate...it is nearly 2 rai, and enough for at least 6, maybe more homes. Many new devlopment, middle of the road, standalone houses are only 80-100 sqm of land.

(if townhouses then double that figure).

They must think a property developer is going to buy it and put up some higher end homes

 

They are not going to get 6 higher end homes on 0.75 acres

 

I have 1 home in the US that takes up 1 acre by itself

[josephbloggs]

11 hours ago, khunjeff said:

The story about the would-be Sofitel being condemned for being unstable was widely reported at the time, so that's not a barstool myth. I don't know what they eventually did to render the building habitable. 

I remember it - it was a widely reported rumour but was completely untrue.  They actually went bankrupt before they could finish it and it was seized by the banks.  Accor (owner of Sofitel) eventually wrote it off.  A few years later it was bought by a Singaporean company who finished it and turned it in to the Hilton.   The same company also bought Exchange Tower which had been abandoned when almost complete and several other abandoned projects.

So I'm afraid your engineer just believed an urban myth.  (I also believed it at the time until I found out it was <deleted>)

Here's an interesting read:  https://www.afr.com/property/thai-ghost-buildings-given-new-life-20060620-j74wz

Edited August 25, 2022 by josephbloggs