Thailand’s new 10 year Long-term Resident Visa (LTR Visa) is now available

[John Drake]

Quote

Whether they’re lazing around or plugging away on their laptops, privileged tourists ultimately change the economics and demographics of an area.

Their buying power increases costs and displaces residents, while traditional businesses make way for ones that cater to their tastes. Where once there was a neighborhood food stand, now there’s an upscale cafe.

Thailand exists for Thais as well.

 

https://theconversation.com/as-countries-ranging-from-indonesia-to-mexico-aim-to-attract-digital-nomads-locals-say-not-so-fast-189283

Edited September 3, 2022 by John Drake

[DrPhibes]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:17 AM, mikebell said:

Figures identical to above post.  Why can't the Thai Gov realise where their future lies?  Are they too intent on feathering their own nests?  Allow retirees to own their own home and see what Malaysia are doing.

Guess you have not been following what has been going on in Malaysia recently:

 

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3145410/its-our-only-home-malaysias-changes-mm2h-visa-scheme-throw

[smutcakes]

Devil is in the detail. I meet all the requirements of income/assets etc and asked our company lawyer whether i am eligible to 17% tax rate.... Response was it is only for people in the EEC..... So not viable for Bangkok based expats.

[newnative]

     I've been reading the comments and a number of them have been focused on the $80,000 a year requirement.   A second option that hasn't been discussed much is having $40,000 or more in income a year, along with investments in Thailand totaling $250,000, which can be Thai property, government bonds, or foreign direct investment.  If you look at the form, there are sections to record income other than pensions, such as dividend income and income from rental property--that's good.  

    I have the $40,000 a year income requirement and I have bought a condo for $188,000, which I still own.  My question is whether they would count a condo purchase from before the program was started.  And, if yes, could I then just invest another $62,000 in Thai bonds to bring the total to $250,000?  Another question, would it count that I invested $218,000 in an earlier condo but then sold it?  If yes, I would have already met the $250,000 requirement with both condo purchases and would not have to invest any more money.

    I think I am not the only one with $80,000 being totally out of the question--but having $40,000 in income and having already invested money in Thailand.  I might consider going for this LTR visa if prior investment in Thailand is counted.  But, no way if I have to start from scratch.

Edited September 3, 2022 by newnative

[OnTheLash]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I’m not sure why you’d want to...  it would cost you 747,500 Baht per year in Tax !!! 

 

You’re far better off leaving 800k baht seasoned in a Thai account. 

 

The only advantages I can nee are: The removal of 90 day reports (irrelevant if you are in and out regularly) and fast track through the airport.

 

The permission to work in Thailand part is extremely vague... its not as if you can just start a business and work, I’m sure there would be ‘work permit hoops’ to jump through. 

 

I thought the 17% tax was for the highly skilled professionals category. 

 

I thought this might fall under the wealthy pensioner category.

 

Earning more than 80k USD outside of Thailand. 

 

What does it matter if the money has come from pensions or earned overseas?

 

Not sure how they would collect the tax anyway?

 

Nobody I know working overseas (oil and gas) has paid a penny in tax in Thailand.... and I know quite a few people in that category.

 

This also includes people working in the Gulf of Thailand BTW.

 

 

 

[redwood1]

Bairly 4 pages of posts about this brand new shiny turd of a visa......That is a good indicator of almost a complete lack of interest from expats...

[OnTheLash]

1 minute ago, redwood1 said:

Bairly 4 pages of posts about this brand new shiny turd of a visa......That is a good indicator of almost a complete lack of interest from expats...

Not a lack of interest.... more a lack of people that would qualify for it.

 

For certain individuals it could be a much better option. Time will tell.

[Neeranam]

17 hours ago, Gknrd said:

In the US you can own land , own a business and work legally. 

In Thailand you get what you pay for.. absolutely nothing!

Thailand offers nothing! For anyone with a very good skill set ??? America or Thailand... hahaha

Go figure why all want to move to the US.

 

 

I'm talking about a retirement visa in the US.

 

Foreigners can work legally and own a business in Thailand.

 

 If Thailand offers nothing, why are you here?

[JimTripper]

9 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

That is an interesting question 

 

Why would anyone choose here over the U.S.?

 

lower crime

lower cost of living

friendlier people

Thailand guards it's borders

Medical treatment is better here

less stress

easygoing people versus u.S.

green new deal

actually, I think lower problems with drugs

 

Yep sign me up I want to live in the land of Brandon.

 

oops had that chance and turned it down in 2008

 

passed and came here.

 

 

One big reason is that if your a Us citizen you can get a home loan. So it's possible to live in a much nicer house in the Usa then one could otherwise afford without the hassles of renting or feeling like a pauper.

 

In Thailand, one would need to buy a condo or rent which is basically a small box and the size would be limited to cash on hand.

 

So the answer to your question is basically that you can't afford to not live in a small box.

Edited September 3, 2022 by JimTripper

[newnative]

10 hours ago, JimTripper said:

One big reason is that if your a Us citizen you can get a home loan. So it's possible to live in a much nicer house in the Usa then one could otherwise afford without the hassles of renting or feeling like a pauper.

 

In Thailand, one would need to buy a condo or rent which is basically a small box and the size would be limited to cash on hand.

 

So the answer to your question is basically that you can't afford to not live in a small box.

    Just the opposite for me, and everyone else I know living here full-time.   We're all in houses or nice-size condos, about a 50-50 mix.   Happily, we all have that all-important ability--identified so often on this forum--to be able to 'swing a cat' in our abodes.  No 'small boxes' among us.  I'm a US citizen and I live in a much bigger house here in Pattaya than I could afford to own, or rent, in the US.   What makes that possible is lower property prices to begin with and much lower maintenance fees, taxes, etc. 

    This morning on Facebook I saw a nice 3-bedroom pool villa listed for under 6MB.  About $172,000.  That would not even buy you the small 1-bedroom condo I used to own in Virginia--it's now worth $238,000.  That $238,000, about 8MB, will give you a number of condo choices here if you prefer to buy in foreign name.  And, lots of nice house choices if you're ok with company name.

    My brother-in-law is visiting from the US and I asked him what his monthly condo fee is on his condo.  $360, plus another $100 monthly town homeowner's fee.  Real estate taxes probably at least $150 a month, likely more.  So, around 21,000 baht a month.  In comparison, my Bangkok condo runs me 2,340 baht in monthly fees.  Quite a difference.

    My Pattaya house in a gated project has a 2,500 baht a month fee for security, gardening, and upkeep.  If you're getting around the 65,000 baht a month in retirement income that Thailand requires, 2,500 baht is also quite a difference from 21,000 baht for monthly property charges.  With that theoretical 65,000 baht, you're left with 62,500 to spend vs. 44,000.  

    If you prefer to rent, also better here.  I used to rent that 1-bedroom Virginia condo for $1500 a month--10 years ago.  Likely higher now.  That's 52,000 baht.  With your theoretical 65,000 baht a month income, you're left with just 13,000 baht.  Plenty of condos and houses to rent here for half that 52,000, leaving you much more to spend each month.

[Neeranam]

On 9/2/2022 at 3:32 AM, webfact said:

Thailand is now welcoming applications for its new 10 year Long-term Resident Visa (LTR Visa), which is aimed at attracting foreigners of “high potential” to live and work in the country.

Rich foreigners don't care about a 10 year visa. IMHO, it's the people that find the easy requirements difficult. 

Rich guys just go to immigration once a year or pay someone to do it for them or get the company rep to do it. 

[ThailandRyan]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I'm talking about a retirement visa in the US.

 

Foreigners can work legally and own a business in Thailand.

 

 If Thailand offers nothing, why are you here?

And foreigners can own a business, work and own a home and land in the US all with just a green card, which can be obtained as a worker first sponsored by a company. After 5 years they can apply for citizenship through naturalization....so what's your point, oh moving as a retiree.....got it.

[ThailandRyan]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Rich foreigners don't care about a 10 year visa. IMHO, it's the people that find the easy requirements difficult. 

Rich guys just go to immigration once a year or pay someone to do it for them or get the company rep to do it. 

What are you talking about?  I easily handle the every year retirement extension by myself and so do others.  This LTR for a wealthy pensioner ticks all of the boxes including the reentry permit and at the end of the day I get 10 years of a ME style visa, plus only need to report to immigration once a year instead of every 90 days, and I can use my 800k in the bank elsewhere.  Is this so hard to understand. The 50k for 10 years is less than 10 years of annual extension fees, all of the banking paperwork costs, and the ME reentry permit fees.......

 

So tell me how a wealthy pensioner who lives here already would not live this LTR as now that travel has reopened almost everywhere its great.

Edited September 4, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Neeranam]

43 minutes ago, newnative said:

If you prefer to rent, also better here.  I used to rent that 1-bedroom Virginia condo for $1500 a month--10 years ago.  Likely higher now.  That's 52,000 baht.  With your theoretical 65,000 baht a month income, you're left with just 13,000 baht.  Plenty of condos and houses to rent here for half that 52,000, leaving you much more to spend each month.

Can rent a 3 bedroomed pool villa in a prime area of Hua Hin for $600 a month! 

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

What are you talking about?  I easily handle the every year retirement extension by myself and so do others.  This LTR for a wealthy pensioner ticks all of the boxes including the reentry permit and at the end of the day I get 10 years of a ME style visa, plus only need to report to immigration once a year instead of every 90 days, and I can use my 800k in the bank elsewhere.  Is this so hard to understand. The 50k for 10 years is less than 10 years of annual extension fees, all of the banking paperwork costs, and the ME reentry permit fees.......

 

So tell me how a wealthy pensioner who lives here already would not live this LTR as now that travel has reopened almost everywhere its great.

I think you misread my post. I was implying it is easy for rich people, including retirees, if the can tick all the boxes.  I mean it's the ones that find the yearly immigration a problem that care about the 10 year visa. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I think you misread my post. I was implying it is easy for rich people, including retirees, if the can tick all the boxes.  I mean it's the ones that find the yearly immigration a problem that care about the 10 year visa. 

If one can not handle the annual issues with immigration then they definitely won't qualify for the LTR. You still need health insurance and true proof of pension income. Something you say folks don't have so they use an agent and obtai  the extensions illegally, according to your prior posts, or am I misreading the prior posts you authored.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

If one can not handle the annual issues with immigration then they definitely won't qualify for the LTR. You still need health insurance and true proof of pension income. Something you say folks don't have so they use an agent and obtai  the extensions illegally, according to your prior posts, or am I misreading the prior posts you authored.

Try reading it again. 

I said that it is the people who don't qualify, ie are poor, that care so much about a long visa. 

 

[Sheryl]

17 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

I said that it is the people who don't qualify, ie are poor, that care so much about a long visa. 

 

 

Hardly need to be poor to not qualify for the LTR.

 

Retirees with incomes of say US 40-60K, even 70k, are not only not poor, they are comparatively well off as retirees go (and certainly have enough to live extremely  well in Thailand)  but they still do not qualify for this visa.

 

 

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Hardly need to be poor to not qualify for the LTR.

 

Retirees with incomes of say US 40-60K, even 70k, are not only not poor, they are comparatively well off as retirees go (and certainly have enough to live extremely  well in Thailand)  but they still do not qualify for this visa.

 

 

I said that it is the people who don't qualify for the 'normal' visa requirements, ie the 800k, that would love the 10 year visa. 

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Can rent a 3 bedroomed pool villa in a prime area of Hua Hin for $600 a month! 

Exactly my point.  Try that in the US.

[Gknrd]

17 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I'm talking about a retirement visa in the US.

 

Foreigners can work legally and own a business in Thailand.

 

 If Thailand offers nothing, why are you here?

Dollar is way up.  hotels are discounting allot.  Cheap place to visit..

Never spend money here in Thailand. 

If talking retirement visa then not for me at this point here in Thailand. To many other place offer me a much better deal with MUCH better scenery and nature, and so much cleaner. 

Nothing against Thailand what so ever. Just now a good fit for me. and my money.

I think the Chinese and Indians will flood in here and shore up the economy. But, here in Pattaya they are not here? Strange.

You guys need to run a media blitz in India and China to tell them Thailand is open.

Maybe offer an incentive to visit Thailand...

 

As far as owning and running a business here in retirement you would have to be daft in the head... haha

Not to mention the long term outlook for Thailand is not that good.  Nice place to come for a shot time.  

Edited September 4, 2022 by Gknrd

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Try reading it again. 

I said that it is the people who don't qualify, ie are poor, that care so much about a long visa. 

 

I always define the 'poor' as people that need to work in order to live.

So by that definition you're poor and I'm not.

[BritManToo]

18 hours ago, JimTripper said:

One big reason is that if your a Us citizen you can get a home loan. So it's possible to live in a much nicer house in the Usa then one could otherwise afford without the hassles of renting or feeling like a pauper.

 

In Thailand, one would need to buy a condo or rent which is basically a small box and the size would be limited to cash on hand.

 

So the answer to your question is basically that you can't afford to not live in a small box.

Can I rent a 3 bed house in the USA for $300/month?

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I said that it is the people who don't qualify for the 'normal' visa requirements, ie the 800k, that would love the 10 year visa. 

Yet they can't not qualify per your own words.  You have posted that rich people will not apply, yet you keep throwing in poor people.  Those poor people would love a 10 year visa you wrote, yet they could not qualify....so why post about it....

[1FinickyOne]

18 hours ago, JimTripper said:

One big reason is that if your a Us citizen you can get a home loan. So it's possible to live in a much nicer house in the Usa then one could otherwise afford without the hassles of renting or feeling like a pauper.

 

In Thailand, one would need to buy a condo or rent which is basically a small box and the size would be limited to cash on hand.

 

So the answer to your question is basically that you can't afford to not live in a small box.

who wants a home loan at this point in life? and I do not live in a small box... 

[overherebc]

On 9/3/2022 at 3:51 PM, DrPhibes said:

Guess you have not been following what has been going on in Malaysia recently:

 

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3145410/its-our-only-home-malaysias-changes-mm2h-visa-scheme-throw

Those rules have been updated to allow previous home owners to stay on.

Can't read your link ( you need to subscribe to read it all ) to the site so don't know if it mentions the update.

[Rimmer]

An abusive personal attack has been removed also replies

[Lacrimas]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:30 PM, ThailandRyan said:

I believe your right as far as canabalizing other Visas.  I am jumping from the O-A Visa extension I have used for the past 3 years. It frees up the 800k I have tied up in a fixed deposit account which can be reinvested elsewhere.

you just stated you spend like 2 million baht per year and worry about 800k tied up? doesn't make much sense you know... I spend 40k a month and don't worry about 400k locked away. I still don't understand what's so good about this 'opportunity' 

[JimTripper]

????

Edited September 4, 2022 by JimTripper

[JimTripper]

16 hours ago, newnative said:

    Just the opposite for me, and everyone else I know living here full-time.   We're all in houses or nice-size condos, about a 50-50 mix.   Happily, we all have that all-important ability--identified so often on this forum--to be able to 'swing a cat' in our abodes.  No 'small boxes' among us.  I'm a US citizen and I live in a much bigger house here in Pattaya than I could afford to own, or rent, in the US.   What makes that possible is lower property prices to begin with and much lower maintenance fees, taxes, etc. 

    This morning on Facebook I saw a nice 3-bedroom pool villa listed for under 6MB.  About $172,000.  That would not even buy you the small 1-bedroom condo I used to own in Virginia--it's now worth $238,000.  That $238,000, about 8MB, will give you a number of condo choices here if you prefer to buy in foreign name.  And, lots of nice house choices if you're ok with company name.

    My brother-in-law is visiting from the US and I asked him what his monthly condo fee is on his condo.  $360, plus another $100 monthly town homeowner's fee.  Real estate taxes probably at least $150 a month, likely more.  So, around 21,000 baht a month.  In comparison, my Bangkok condo runs me 2,340 baht in monthly fees.  Quite a difference.

    My Pattaya house in a gated project has a 2,500 baht a month fee for security, gardening, and upkeep.  If you're getting around the 65,000 baht a month in retirement income that Thailand requires, 2,500 baht is also quite a difference from 21,000 baht for monthly property charges.  With that theoretical 65,000 baht, you're left with 62,500 to spend vs. 44,000.  

    If you prefer to rent, also better here.  I used to rent that 1-bedroom Virginia condo for $1500 a month--10 years ago.  Likely higher now.  That's 52,000 baht.  With your theoretical 65,000 baht a month income, you're left with just 13,000 baht.  Plenty of condos and houses to rent here for half that 52,000, leaving you much more to spend each month.

 

15 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Can rent a 3 bedroomed pool villa in a prime area of Hua Hin for $600 a month! 

 

12 hours ago, newnative said:

Exactly my point.  Try that in the US.

 

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Can I rent a 3 bed house in the USA for $300/month?

 

10 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

who wants a home loan at this point in life? and I do not live in a small box... 

Yes, but you are renting at the mercy of the landlord. Rent could go up or they may want to sell. If we are talking about retirement is that really how you want to live?

 

Not a big deal with a glut of rental properties available, but for some people that's not really 'home', it's just a temporary arrangement. Also, as one gets older moving all the time is a hassle to put it politely.

 

As far as buying property you can by a condo box which all look pretty similar to my eye sans the furniture, or you need the land in a Thai's name, or someone said you could do it under a company name but that option does not appear to be very popular (don't you need 51% Thai owned ).

 

Like I said before, for those who need a stable living situation a property and 30 year fixed interest home loan in your home country may be preferable (if you have credit and can afford the payment).