"What price a child?" Systems company tells ASEAN NOW few schools are interested despite multiple deaths in vans

[Derek B]

Surely even in Thai law once in the van the driver is fully responsible for those that boarded until all passengers depart the van at the drop off point at or near the school and in a safe manner.

 

Do the schools in Thailand not have class registration in the morning?

If a child is not in attendance at registration the front office should be informed by the teacher so a parent or carer can be contacted to ascertain the reason for absence or the whereabouts of the missing pupil.

 

 

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

A sales manager at a company specializing in online management systems has told ASEAN NOW that few schools in Thailand have shelled out money to ensure that children are not left to die in vans parked at schools.

Employ a driver with a brain... that's a good place to start.

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

Following last week's tragedy in Chonburi Mr Jenkinson said that Bangkok Patana - perhaps the most well known British International School in Thailand - had been in touch. They have a fleet of more than 200 mini-vans owned privately that ferry children to and from school, he said.

 

21 hours ago, webfact said:

Voova normally charges 2,000 baht per vehicle as a set up fee then charges 1,500 baht per month per vehicle thereafter.

I think I see the problem.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, cnx101 said:

I think it’s easy enough for the driver too walk through the van to check nobody’s still inside, I thought this would be normal practice, are the drivers that lazy.

History says yes.

[shackleton]

You know here in Thailand if its going to cost people money ???? 

It's not going to be a easy sell ????

As mentioned enough times on here 

The driver is responsible  for ensuring everyone is accounted for in their Mini bus 

What's it going to take 5 minutes of their  time ⏲ ???? 

 

[thailand49]

Maybe our age and the times technology?  It comes down to proper teaching at all levels. 

This company is promoting technology expensive at that regardless and I'm not lessening a child's life.  

A long long time ago, in school we take field trips not in Vans, buses and public at that the Adult was taught how many student as we got on and off each was counted before the bus moved the adult ran through the bus to double check. 

When older, day camp, if you were 16 or older wanted to be leader we took younger kids on trips to the park many times on public buses taught this old fashion method same with Simply crossing the street. 

Today for example while driving we have reverse cameras they are great but when in doubts get out and double check the old fashion way especially for kids. I would teach others they must look after each other but as An adult I wouldn't assume or take it for granted. 

I agree with many as a driver of a van they have a schedule know the number of students a route when it comes to a life you take nothing for granted there are two doors you got to open on those van, sliding and rear open it and take a visual look! 

 

[JayClay]

2 hours ago, SmartyMarty said:

Yes it's nothing to do with offering a safety product that may save the lives of children in the future.

Correct. I'm glad you agree.

 

A blatant case of filthy opportunism, taking a tragic incident and trying to guilt-shame schools for not investing in a probably worthless product.

[SmartyMarty]

4 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Correct. I'm glad you agree.

 

A blatant case of filthy opportunism, taking a tragic incident and trying to guilt-shame schools for not investing in a probably worthless product.

Just as volvo did when it invented the seat belt .....and curses on all those airbags in cars that save lives but cost extra. Just terrible.

[Voova Group]

10 hours ago, JayClay said:

While incidents like these are horrific, I have to say that this companies like this, looking to turn tragic news into profit are the lowest of the low. It's disgusting behaviour.

 

As somebody else has said, you don't need tags or any kind of digital system in place to count how many people entered and then left a vehicle!

I can understand your response - however, this has been done from the heart - I have visited over 100 schools in Asia - I have spoken at conferences on school safety - and it upsets me that for a few baht per day I can not get schools to take action - I don't care if they chose another system - but until it happens to them they only seem to count the pennies - Numerous children die getting left on buses - 80 children in one-year alone pre covid across Asia

We are prepared to run at a loss to encourage schools to take up a system and if shaming them a little bit as well as giving them an incentive works -  I have no regrets for trying.

Edited September 7, 2022 by metisdead
5. Do not post text with all capital letters or with over-sized fonts, bold fonts, non-standard fonts, colored fonts or unusually large emojis.

[Voova Group]

5 hours ago, JayClay said:

Correct. I'm glad you agree.

 

A blatant case of filthy opportunism, taking a tragic incident and trying to guilt-shame schools for not investing in a probably worthless product.

I can understand your response - however, this has been done from the heart - I have visited over 100 schools in Asia - I have spoken at conferences on school safety - and it upsets me that for a few baht per day I can not get schools to take action - I don't care if they chose another system - but until it happens to them they only seem to count the pennies - Numerous children die getting left on buses - 80 children in one-year alone pre covid across Asia

We are prepared to run at a loss to encourage schools to take up a system and if guilt shaming them a little bit as well as giving them an incentive works -  I have no regrets for trying!

Edited September 7, 2022 by metisdead
5. Do not post text with all capital letters or with over-sized fonts, bold fonts, non-standard fonts, colored fonts or unusually large emojis.

[brianthainess]

22 hours ago, webfact said:

Voova normally charges 2,000 baht per vehicle as a set up fee then charges 1,500 baht per month per vehicle thereafter. 

This does seem rather expensive with on going fees. simple motion detector, or even simpler a panic button fitted to the horn for a few hundred baht. 

[kingstonkid]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:43 PM, DualSportBiker said:

Thai schools are for-profit, non-tax paying businesses. I spent several years demonstrating to schools that they could save money and generate a healthy return on technology to reduce energy consumption. Even with clear evidence of savings they were not interested:

• 16 months to break-even was too long (unrealistic expectations of ROI on capital equipment)
• their engineers claimed existing equipment would be damaged (too lazy to deal with new stuff)
• "your product only works when demonstrating. Once installed for real it will not save." (abject lack of trust and fundamental failure to understand how stuff is made)
• "how do I benefit when my school saves money?" (my salary is too low, if you help me I can help you)

When you add this approach with the 'preventative maintenance is for idiots' attitude to risk reduction, it does not surprise me that schools don't care about things that might happen. Only when it has happened will they take notice, and most likely only to say that it won't happen again. Schools here are run to print money as hard and as fast as possible. Protecting children is not a priority, whether short-term with tech like in the OP, or long-term by reducing environmental impact.

 

The school's owners, their COOs, and the owners of the vans and the company that operates them all should be held liable for failures. The six deaths mentioned should have resulted in 6 groups of defendants in court, then prison. The 129 near-miss events should have resulted in fines of hundreds of thousands of Baht. I'll stop dreaming soon...

<<<<Trolling image removed>>>>

 

I know a lot of people that drove school busses that sat 50 students and they never had a problem.  The solution has nothing to do with selling a program or app.  That is as stated in the pic.

 

The solution is so simple that it is ridiculous.  When a driver reaches a destination they do a walk through of the vehicle.  That way they can clean any messes collect anything that is forgotten and if there are any stowaways they can retrieve them.

 

Bus walk throughs are mandatory in Ontario.  If a driver fails to do the walk through they can lose their job and be blacklisted from that school district.

 

As to enforcement it is easy.

1. a school rep or parent watches all vans coming to the school to make sure that a walk through is done before the van leaves.

2. a parent is asked to have their child leave something on the van

3. cctv at all drop off locations.

 

As to the teachers they should be instructed that just like in the event of a fire drill or start of classes when they go on a trip they must at all times do an attendance.

 

Non compliance can include dismissal.

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by metisdead

[JayClay]

33 minutes ago, SmartyMarty said:

Just as volvo did when it invented the seat belt .....and curses on all those airbags in cars that save lives but cost extra. Just terrible.

I was not around in those days but if, as you are implying, they latched onto a specific story in order to try and promote their safety products then I again agree with you that they went about their business in a very cynical manner.

 

If the product genuinely saves lives then it should be able to stand on it's own merits.

 

I haven't investigated the system that's been proposed by this advertorial but wonder what benefits it has over a clipboard and a list of names.

[jack71]

7 hours ago, cnx101 said:

are the drivers that lazy.

please add stupid next time

[billd766]

My son and my neighbours daughter, 18 and 17 respectively are taken to school 13km away every school morning by pickup truck here in rural Kamphaeng Phet.

 

I know that they are not left asleep in the pickup because I am the driver. The afternoon run is done by my neighbour in her car. It costs more than a school bus/van/pickup but is worth far more than the cost.

 

On the way there are always other children awaiting pick up so the drivers must know how many the take each day and as been said so many times in this  thread, a simple walk through takes less than a minute and may save a childs life. Normally there is a teacher or responsible adult on P1 to P6 buses only as they start M1 at age 12 and there are normally older children on the bus anyway.

 

[DjSilver]

What to expect from a country of people with low brain capacity or hardly any brain to do any self thinking?

[Ray Ban]

Aren’t the doors in most vehicles able to be opened from the inside even if locked from the outside, precisely for safety reasons? Presumably this vehicle didn’t have sliding windows able to be opened from the inside. The simple and cheap idea suggested above of installing a clearly marked panic button connected to the horn has a lot to be said for it., but in the end a quick visual check by the driver before leaving the vehicle should be all that’s required.

[Voova Group]

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

 

I think I see the problem.

its around 7.5 thb per child per day on average - for some of the most expensive international schools it shouldnt even be a question.

[Photoguy21]

8 hours ago, steve187 said:

surely its count on count off, some sort of mechanical clicker/counter, and the driver should walk though before going to for a kip

Even if you dont do a count on and off, surely it isnt that hard just to make a check to see no one is left inside? It is a van not a train with many coaches. Just shows the type of people they have driving these children to school. Criminals.

[coolcarer]

9 minutes ago, Voova Group said:

its around 7.5 thb per child per day on average - for some of the most expensive international schools it shouldnt even be a question.

How do you work that out? you think International schools run their mini buses full each day? They don’t. I work at an international school and all mini buses have a responsible driver and a teaching assistant who both do the necessary checks a part of their normal duties. What are the statistics in Thailand for deaths of this sort in an international school?

 

The app is not even designed for this purpose, it’s a school transport monitoring system, I looked at your site, the issue you’ve raised here is just a by product of the app. All I see is you web design and app development company jumping in on this terrible death. 

[skippybangkok]

Wonder what the price of this advertorial was 

[starky]

8 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

My wife says the latest death was the fault of the kids for not alerting the driver that someone was still in the van. She has a point, even though the primary fault lays with those charged with ensuring the safety of the kids in their charge not being bothered to do their job properly. As so often in Thailand, near enough is good enough (hanging wires, electrical faults etc). Except, sometimes, it isn't and people die or are injured. But no-one really cares and history repeats itself.

Yes. Brilliant. It's the kids fault. Of course it is

[starky]

Is this an ad?

[starky]

2 hours ago, coolcarer said:

How do you work that out? you think International schools run their mini buses full each day? They don’t. I work at an international school and all mini buses have a responsible driver and a teaching assistant who both do the necessary checks a part of their normal duties. What are the statistics in Thailand for deaths of this sort in an international school?

 

The app is not even designed for this purpose, it’s a school transport monitoring system, I looked at your site, the issue you’ve raised here is just a by product of the app. All I see is you web design and app development company jumping in on this terrible death. 

Thank you. We'll said.

[Bangkok Barry]

33 minutes ago, starky said:

Yes. Brilliant. It's the kids fault. Of course it is

Thais often think differently to us. Wired differently, and not in a good way.

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, Derek B said:

Surely even in Thai law once in the van the driver is fully responsible for those that boarded until all passengers depart the van at the drop off point at or near the school and in a safe manner.

 

Do the schools in Thailand not have class registration in the morning?

If a child is not in attendance at registration the front office should be informed by the teacher so a parent or carer can be contacted to ascertain the reason for absence or the whereabouts of the missing pupil.

 

 

That all sounds very well but sadly indicates how you perhaps do not grasp how things are here.

Laws are not enforced nor even regarded seriously.

Responsibility is lacking.

Consequences of actions are rarely considered.

(More reactive than proactive). 

Even the absence of the child, well perhaps some schools would contact parents... but in this case would it have prevented things?

Edited September 8, 2022 by jacko45k