Stray dogs caught after chasing after tourists and residents in Phuket

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/17/2022 at 11:47 AM, ezzra said:

Hopefully they will be disposed off properly and not end up on some meat BBQ stall or a noodle soup...

Would that be improper?

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Thingamabob said:

At one and the same time both pathetic and disgusting.

What solution would you propose ??  

 

Thats if you think stray dogs are a problem at all, you may not... and thus feel perfectly comfortable with your child on a beach with stray dogs running around, or walking down a soi through a pack of dogs, you may not mind the barking and noise at night, you may not feel concerned for the motorcyclist getting knocked off their motorcycles etc....  

 

You may not recognise stray dogs as being a problem at all (meanwhile governments in the western world consider otherwise)....   But... IF you do recognise there exist and issue with stray dogs in Thailand - what would you do about it ?

 

---------

 

I don’t believe in killing the animals - As Bill writes, every animal has a right to life, even though I personally believe humans have greater rights (thats just my human selfishness, I’m comfortable with and accept that criticism)....  

 

If in a position of policy and decision making power I would choose to set up teams, sponsor vets to have these animals spayed on a national scale (every male and female) - its a difficult and on-going task, but a necessary one.

 

With continued efforts this would bring the numbers down to a more manageable scale whereby continued efforts to minimise the amount of stray dogs on the street will be manageable. 

 

I would also impose that all dogs should have a collar identifying their owner. 

If found outside of the home (on the streets) the owner is fined, if the dog has no collar, it is taken away and spayed. 

 

No solution is perfect, but this would be the most humane and reduce disease, spread of and risk of rabies etc...  and of course, the ultimate goal, limit the sufferer of future generations of millions of animals as future generations would not exist (or would exist in limited numbers). 

 

 

 

[steven100]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I wonder if Bill takes responsibility IF the stray dogs under his ‘management’ (or care or whatever you would call it) bite someone ??

 

They’re not his dogs, but he cares for them, feeds them, spays them etc...  So they hang around his area....  IF they run out in the road and knock off a motorcyclist, is Bill ultimately responsible ?

 

Given his current line of reasoning he may argue that the road should not be there because that is humans destroying the environment....   Humans (the presence of) is the problem. 

 

A similar logic has been applied in some poorer countries when a foreigner is involved (but not at fault) in a vehicle accident - IF the foreigner wasn’t there the accident wouldn't have occurred, ergo, its the foreigners fault. 

 

 

I hear what your saying,   well, I see where he is coming from .... but the actual issue is soi dogs biting and attacking kids and elderly,  hence, it doesn't matter who caused the problem, it's finding the solution to the problem is the issue.  I wonder how he'd feel if he had 20 dogs or 40 or 60 at his place to feed.  I guess he'd manage somehow.  

each to his own .....  

[proton]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What solution would you propose ??  

 

Thats if you think stray dogs are a problem at all, you may not... and thus feel perfectly comfortable with your child on a beach with stray dogs running around, or walking down a soi through a pack of dogs, you may not mind the barking and noise at night, you may not feel concerned for the motorcyclist getting knocked off their motorcycles etc....  

 

You may not recognise stray dogs as being a problem at all (meanwhile governments in the western world consider otherwise)....   But... IF you do recognise there exist and issue with stray dogs in Thailand - what would you do about it ?

 

---------

 

I don’t believe in killing the animals - As Bill writes, every animal has a right to life, even though I personally believe humans have greater rights (thats just my human selfishness, I’m comfortable with and accept that criticism)....  

 

If in a position of policy and decision making power I would choose to set up teams, sponsor vets to have these animals spayed on a national scale (every male and female) - its a difficult and on-going task, but a necessary one.

 

With continued efforts this would bring the numbers down to a more manageable scale whereby continued efforts to minimise the amount of stray dogs on the street will be manageable. 

 

I would also impose that all dogs should have a collar identifying their owner. 

If found outside of the home (on the streets) the owner is fined, if the dog has no collar, it is taken away and spayed. 

 

No solution is perfect, but this would be the most humane and reduce disease, spread of and risk of rabies etc...  and of course, the ultimate goal, limit the sufferer of future generations of millions of animals as future generations would not exist (or would exist in limited numbers). 

 

 

 

Another one who does not believe in killing animals, but who almost certainly eats them on a regular basis. What about killing rats, mice and snakes? Soi dogs are in the same category, vermin and need to be dealt with the same way putting all the hypocritical views on animals aside. Dead dogs do not breed, bite, bark or poo all over the place, they cannot kill kids either. Get the army to do something useful and organise a mass culling in every province as well as offering a bounty on dead dogs brought in by the public, and do it for months.

[Thingamabob]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

Good for you. You have done tour bit, Bills Smart has done his bit with his dogs, I have done my bit with no dogs.

 

However that doesn't fix the big problem of soi dogs. There are literally millions of them and sadly for the dogs, nobody wants them.

 

Many Thais believe that they are doing their bit for Buddhism by simply feeding the dogs and walking away. In fact they are part of the problem too.

What many people on this site seem to forget is that some years ago a greatly respected Thai decreed that dogs should never be mistreated under any circumstances. 

[billsmart]

45 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It could be argued that you are only as smart as those who feed soi dogs and perpetuate an existing problem....

 

I do agree, humans cause the ’soi dog issue’.... but through our inaction in controlling their numbers. 

This ’soi dog issue’ could be resolved in a few years if action is taken - then future generations of dogs will not suffer - why are you refusing to see that aspect ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that killing all (most) of the soi dogs right now would "solve" this immediate problem, but it would only be a short-term solution. Unless we (humans) change our ways, the soi dog problem will just reoccur, and it, as I've been saying, is just the tip of the iceberg of problems we (humans) are causing on this planet. If it's not soi dogs, it'll be rats, or lizards, or mosquitos, or weeds. It's always something about nature that makes us uncomfortable, and I don't think the correct solution is to just kill everything. That's what we've been doing.

Why are you refusing to see the "soi dog problem" as just one example of our (humans) efforts to control and manage the Earth's environment for our own comfort?

[billsmart]

47 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

We know you wrote a book Bill... You keep mentioning it in every thread. 

 

But that simply means you spent the time to put opinion to paper - it does not lend weight to an argument if that argument is flawed.

 

Did you read the book by Edward Hendrie - The greatest Lie on Earth ???....   I think that sufficiently makes my point on the validity of argument just because a book has been written. 

 

 

 

Stray dogs are an issue - whether humans caused this issue is irrelevant.... the issue simply needs to be resolved because humans are not going anywhere regardless of who you want to blame or have a preference for. 

 

 

 

 

No, I have never read that book. I did look it up, and assume you are not recommending it. But, as I'm sure you know, many people believe in that type of thing.

I only mention my book in reference to points made here. I've only referenced it in this thread to show that just because you don't have the whole solution doesn't mean you shouldn't take small steps, whenever you can, to try to help the situation. That was the point of the story I referenced. that story is not mine, just one I quoted.

Stray dogs are an issue. Why are they an issue? You can answer that by saying, "Because they make me uncomfortable, so getting rid of them is the solution." Or you can answer that by saying, "Because we have brought them here and abandoned them, so finding them homes is the solution."

That's the choice here, as I see it.

[billsmart]

47 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I wonder if Bill takes responsibility IF the stray dogs under his ‘management’ (or care or whatever you would call it) bite someone ??

Bill Smat: Yes, if any of my dogs bit anyone (unprovoked), I would take care of the person and also the dog. And that could mean killing the dog if it happened more than once. I can tell you that we have had probably 30 or 40 dogs, and I've NEVER had any of them bite anyone. They've fought other dogs and killed chickens occasionally, but all they ever do with visitors is bark. And, that's a good thing. It's like an alarm that someone is on the property. 

47 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

They’re not his dogs, but he cares for them, feeds them, spays them etc...  So they hang around his area....  IF they run out in the road and knock off a motorcyclist, is Bill ultimately responsible ?

 

I've never had any do that, but if they would, I would take care of the person involved. I have seen several instances of cars actually swerving to try to hit dogs, but thankfully, never any of mine.

 

[richard_smith237]

37 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Stray dogs are an issue. Why are they an issue? You can answer that by saying, "Because they make me uncomfortable, so getting rid of them is the solution." Or you can answer that by saying, "Because we have brought them here and abandoned them, so finding them homes is the solution."

That's the choice here, as I see it.

Or  this... 

 

"Because we have brought them here and abandoned them, so finding them homes and preventing them ALL from procreating is the solution."

 

But... finding them all homes is completely and utterly impractical - there are too many. 

 

So...  at least spay them all wherever possible to prevent this issue from continuing with further generations and minimise their numbers. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Bill Smat: Yes, if any of my dogs bit anyone (unprovoked), I would take care of the person and also the dog. And that could mean killing the dog if it happened more than once. I can tell you that we have had probably 30 or 40 dogs, and I've NEVER had any of them bite anyone. They've fought other dogs and killed chickens occasionally, but all they ever do with visitors is bark. And, that's a good thing. It's like an alarm that someone is on the property. 

 

And if one ran across a road and knocked a motorcyclist off ??

 

The point I want to make here is that they are still ‘stray dogs’ free to roam... this is not so much of an issue in your area, but in built up areas they remain a nuisance. 

 

I’ve seen dogs stopping traffic - fighting in the muddle of large cross roads. 

I’ve seen dogs cause accidents.. etc etc....   who is responsible for any of this?

 

The harmless stray dog outside 7-11.....   what happens when it bites a child which accidentally stood on its tail as is lays in the doorway enjoying the AC.....  

 

None of this should be allowed to happen - there should be no stray dogs.

 

Doing ‘nothing’ is exactly the wrong solution....  we (Humans) have to take steps to remove them by whatever means, but preferably the kindest means, which IMO means spaying them all, and that is costly - the government obviously needs to pay for this. 

 

-------

 

 

I lived in a neighbourhood of Bangkok known for its ‘larger wealthier houses’ - the quietness of night was noticeable...  no dogs barking etc.... none on the streets. 

I suspect a couple of local wealthy people paid someone to keep the streets free of dogs...  what the did to achieve this I had no idea... but I was thankful. 

Now... If they could have only done the same for the odd d!<khead motorcyclist ‘razzing’ down the soi at 2am !!.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FarangFB]

1 hour ago, proton said:

well as offering a bounty on dead dogs brought in by the public,

if they do this there will be people breeding dogs just to kill them and bring in for the bounty

[richard_smith237]

51 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I agree that killing all (most) of the soi dogs right now would "solve" this immediate problem, but it would only be a short-term solution. Unless we (humans) change our ways, the soi dog problem will just reoccur, and it, as I've been saying, is just the tip of the iceberg of problems we (humans) are causing on this planet. If it's not soi dogs, it'll be rats, or lizards, or mosquitos, or weeds. It's always something about nature that makes us uncomfortable, and I don't think the correct solution is to just kill everything. That's what we've been doing.

 

Resolve the issue and put measures in place to continue measures for continued resolution !!... 

And I do agree....  If its not soi dogs, its rats, lizard, mozzies, weeds etc... we can manage all of that. 

And yes, for our comfort.....    managing all of that doesn’t mean ‘killing everything’ it means managing, controlling everything...... (dominating if you wish to call it that)... 

 

I don’t want rats spreading disease, or soi dogs biting kids etc.... we can deal with these issues. 

This is not the same as ‘killing all mammals in the wild’....  this is not a ’thin end of the wedge’ scenario. 

 

 

51 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Why are you refusing to see the "soi dog problem" as just one example of our (humans) efforts to control and manage the Earth's environment for our own comfort?

I'm not... I agree with you that we control and manage our environment - we have being doing so since before the ice-age. 

 

 

[billsmart]

46 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Or  this... 

 

"Because we have brought them here and abandoned them, so finding them homes and preventing them ALL from procreating is the solution."

 

But... finding them all homes is completely and utterly impractical - there are too many. 

 

So...  at least spay them all wherever possible to prevent this issue from continuing with further generations and minimise their numbers. 

 

 

 

????

[billsmart]

38 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I don’t want rats spreading disease, or soi dogs biting kids etc.... we can deal with these issues. 

This is not the same as ‘killing all mammals in the wild’....  this is not a ’thin end of the wedge’ scenario. 

Yes, this is a "thin edge of the wedge" scenario. I call it just the "tip of the iceberg." 

 

38 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

I'm not... I agree with you that we control and manage our environment - we have being doing so since before the ice-age. 

 

 

I never said we should control and manage our environment. We can't. We have been TRYING to do that since "before the Ice Age," and look where's it got us. We are on the verge of destroying the entire ecosystem of the Earth. 

In my book (yes, I referenced it again ????), I go through all this and come to the conclusion that we're already "over the cliff" on this. There is no "fixing it" now. That's why I end my book (????) with the Starfish on the Beach story (not my original story). The message it sends is that we should all do whatever we can now, even though we know that, in the end, we will not be successful.

[billd766]

On 9/17/2022 at 2:50 PM, Kaopad999 said:

exterminate the lot of them. 

You sound a bit like this

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxD-5z_xHBU

 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

What many people on this site seem to forget is that some years ago a greatly respected Thai decreed that dogs should never be mistreated under any circumstances. 

What you seem to forget is that he was a very rich person with more than one home and a lot of land. He also had a lot of people and relatively few dogs. I doubt if he personally met with many soi dogs though he did his bit and took some in, but leaving millions of other soi dogs across Thailand.

 

Decrees are like the laws of Thailand.

 

All well and good, but rarely if ever enforced.

[MrJ2U]

10 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

used to feed the dogs and monkeys 2 or 3 times a week

That's the problem.

 

Looking at the pictures.  Packs of stray dogs.  Wonderful.

 

Ugh.

[JetsetBkk]

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

That's the problem.

 

Looking at the pictures.  Packs of stray dogs.  Wonderful.

 

Ugh.

Yes, "Ugh", they are so ugly.

 

 

Here's a really violent bunch fighting! Or is it just friends having a "rough and tumble", and totally ignoring the farang with the camera...

 

 

This vicious dog even gave me a kiss...

 

 

When they're young, they do like to play...

 

 

Until it's time for bed...

 

 

So, as well as dogs and puppies, there are also birds...

 

 

And more puppies (eating my food)... 

 

 

And some really nasty looking lizards...

 

 

Not all the monkeys are the same...

 

 

But when it's hot, there's only one place to be...

 

 

This was a nice trip down memory lane. I see from Google Earth that the hill is open again - new pictures are from this year - so I'll be going again very soon.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by JetsetBkk

[Burma Bill]

On 9/17/2022 at 1:09 PM, billsmart said:

relocated to somewhere they won't be thought to be a problem. 

Vietnam???

[billd766]

Well it seems as though my older neighbour (she has been in BKK for nearly a month now), had a dog killed in a street crash. That left 3 dogs and a bitch.

 

The younger neighbour who has been looking after the house and animals has had her mother up for a while. Somebody took her mother home over the weekend and they took the eldest dog with them. Hooray, only 2 dogs and a bitch left..

 

The bitch has been busy though and dropped a litter of 4 a few weeks ago and a puppy was taken as well. So the dog population has actually increased by a total of 3. It would have been 5 but 2 were relocated.

 

For Bill Smart, "WE" did NOT increase the population of soi dogs, they can do that all on their own.