Worth it to buy new forks? Kawasaki 650R - 09

[JeffersLos]

31 minutes ago, papa al said:

Oh-oh.!

Happy to help. ???? 

 

 

2 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

You don't know specifics about recommended parts to watch out for on this model, it's okay to admit it 555.

 

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I have never owed a bike like yours

See, easy. ???? 

[LS24]

Forks on a kawasaki 650 are really very basic. The only time you would need to replace forks is for the following reasons.
 

1. Crash damage to the upper of lower part of the fork. These means bending or cracking and maybe dents on the lower leg. It would also mean bending or dent on the upper fork (stanchion). This is the chrome area.
Dents on the lower leg might not be an issue. It would need to be confirmed that the dent was no so large that it is impeding full stroke and binding of the internals.

Check that any axle pinch bolts can all snug up tight without being impeded. Also check for cracks around where the brake calipers mount. Maybe the mechanic has spotted something on the lowers.

2. The upper fork might have pitting on the chrome. Even small pits can at times destroy even new fork seals in quick time. check with a fingernail all around the chrome area that could pass by the seal. If you feel any resistance, further investigation is required. Sometimes gently lapping with a 2000 grit wet and dry sandpaper can reduce the possibility of fork seal damage. Also check fork uppers for straightness with the straight edge.

3. It unusual for internals in basic fork to be damaged during normal servicing. It would only be due to mechanic error if things like the damper rod retaining screw was stripped or similar. There is really not much else except main spring, possibly bottom out spring and guides and spacers to go wrong on standard units.

If the mechanic is saying that there is more than oil as an issue, investigate points 1 and 2. Point 3 is unlikely.

 

Here is an exploded view of a newer model 650 fork. It would be unlikely that much has changed over the years.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by LS24
added exploded view of fork

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, JeffersLos said:

Happy to help. ???? 

 

 

 

See, easy. ???? 

Bikers like me and engineers old school like me would call people like you a fagot Pratt. 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Kwasaki

[LS24]

11 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

I have the Er6n model from the same year - '09. with 55K KM on the odo. Bought used with no service book.

 

I'll take it in for a service. Besides the oil, oil filter and other fluids, whet should I have them do?

 

TIA. 

Old bike with that many KM and unknown history, I'd check valve clearances. You will learn two things at least when the job is done. The first is that you / the mechanic will get to see the condition of the top end and whether oil has been refreshed as required or not. By 55K, you will start to see crud and gumming on poorly serviced units. But as long as it has had it's first service to refresh the break in oil, no oil change to 55KM may not be catastrophic. Have seen worse still running.

The second is you will know for sure the valve clearances are on point. Very easy for a slightly out of tolerance exhaust valve to burn out and that is downhill from there. It isn't really worth the time and parts and machining to repair it on an old bike. So it is piece of mind.

 

The bonus is that the engine will run a little more crisp. Those engines are otherwise bulletproof. Clutch or major bearing issues will be otherwise noticed readily enough when riding. If the engine is free to rev, has no judder on take off, then the engine is sound.

 

Check chain and sprockets, cush drives in the rear wheel, front axle alignment. Also brake softly at slow speed and check for warped discs.

The rear shock if standard will be screwed in rebound by now. If you are keeping the bike, get an aftermarket jobbie from YSS. Good value for a fair unit. You will also get a spring to suit you and your carrying load. New fork oil and throw some emulators and springs to match your weight and load. in there while the forks are apart. Will transform the bike along with the rear shock. Probably get change from 15000THB if you get it done at YSS factory. Good guys there. Had several bikes sorted there and never been disappointed.

Unless the bike comes with quality suspension, always budget on emulators and forks for the front and a rear shock with rebound, new tyres if needed, front scintered brake pads and braided front brake line(s) if not standard. Run separate front lines if dual disk front end.

LIfe is good on a well suspended bike that stops. That's what I would do to any second hand bike with any real KM on it. Unless it is a sport bike or high quality purpose adventure bike, suspension generally is terrible on factory bikes.

Edited September 21, 2022 by LS24

[papa al]

3 hours ago, LS24 said:

Old bike with that many KM and unknown history, I'd check valve clearances. You will learn two things at least when the job is done. The first is that you / the mechanic will get to see the condition of the top end and whether oil has been refreshed as required or not. By 55K, you will start to see crud and gumming on poorly serviced units. But as long as it has had it's first service to refresh the break in oil, no oil change to 55KM may not be catastrophic. Have seen worse still running.

The second is you will know for sure the valve clearances are on point. Very easy for a slightly out of tolerance exhaust valve to burn out and that is downhill from there. It isn't really worth the time and parts and machining to repair it on an old bike. So it is piece of mind.

 

The bonus is that the engine will run a little more crisp. Those engines are otherwise bulletproof. Clutch or major bearing issues will be otherwise noticed readily enough when riding. If the engine is free to rev, has no judder on take off, then the engine is sound.

 

Check chain and sprockets, cush drives in the rear wheel, front axle alignment. Also brake softly at slow speed and check for warped discs.

The rear shock if standard will be screwed in rebound by now. If you are keeping the bike, get an aftermarket jobbie from YSS. Good value for a fair unit. You will also get a spring to suit you and your carrying load. New fork oil and throw some emulators and springs to match your weight and load. in there while the forks are apart. Will transform the bike along with the rear shock. Probably get change from 15000THB if you get it done at YSS factory. Good guys there. Had several bikes sorted there and never been disappointed.

Unless the bike comes with quality suspension, always budget on emulators and forks for the front and a rear shock with rebound, new tyres if needed, front scintered brake pads and braided front brake line(s) if not standard. Run separate front lines if dual disk front end.

LIfe is good on a well suspended bike that stops. That's what I would do to any second hand bike with any real KM on it. Unless it is a sport bike or high quality purpose adventure bike, suspension generally is terrible on factory bikes.

You are into track riding, right?

 

 

[JeffersLos]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

call people like you a fagot Pratt. 

Okay, Mr. Know-Nothing. ????

 

 

5 hours ago, LS24 said:

check valve clearances. You will learn two things at least when the job is done. The first is that you / the mechanic will get to see the condition of the top end and whether oil has been refreshed as required or not. By 55K, you will start to see crud and gumming on poorly serviced units.

Sure. ????

 

 

 

[soi3eddie]

On 9/20/2022 at 2:28 PM, papa al said:

Bearings are cheap.

Worst scenario is

if the fork tubes are corroded/pitted.

They would then leak.

 

Thinking you are okay.

The ONLY 2 reasons to replace front forks on a motorcycyle are:

1) Forks are bent

2) Forks are pitted/corroded

Seals and oil are easily replaced.

Head race bearings are not a reason to replace forks and new taper bearings are a perfect upgrade at low cost. When replacing fork seals be sure to fill with new oil at same volumn but viscosity can be thicker therefore giving more stability.

 

[Kawazaki650R]

So I got the bike back. Can't really see any dent on the front wheel tbh. There's a small crack in the paint job but that's about it. I also asked about the new speedometer the digital dashboard. They wanted 11000 baht for it. Surely there's must be after market that are way cheaper? 

 

[Kawazaki650R]

30 minutes ago, Kawazaki650R said:

So I got the bike back. Can't really see any dent on the front wheel tbh. There's a small crack in the paint job but that's about it. I also asked about the new speedometer the digital dashboard. They wanted 11000 baht for it. Surely there's must be after market that are way cheaper? 

 

Can't seem to edit my post. I also want to repaint it and remove a dent in the fuel tank. Guy at the shop said it would cost 5000 baht for both side panels, dent removal and repainting of the fuel tank. Does that sound reasonable? 

[Kwasaki]

30 minutes ago, Kawazaki650R said:

So I got the bike back. Can't really see any dent on the front wheel tbh. There's a small crack in the paint job but that's about it. I also asked about the new speedometer the digital dashboard. They wanted 11000 baht for it. Surely there's must be after market that are way cheaper? 

 

Yeah the OEM parts will cost more there are some single  speedometer plug ins on  Lazada probably on Shoppee too they look the same but  range from 500 to 2000.

 

So get the cheaper one and see if any good if not you ain't lost too much, or send it back. 

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, Kawazaki650R said:

Can't seem to edit my post. I also want to repaint it and remove a dent in the fuel tank. Guy at the shop said it would cost 5000 baht for both side panels, dent removal and repainting of the fuel tank. Does that sound reasonable? 

Sounds a lot to me, can't you find a guy in your area that works on the side. 

 

I can get motorbike panels resprayed from 200 to 600 baht, tank repairs and re-spray 500 baht. 

You have to do your decals though if you want any. 

[Kawazaki650R]

27 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Sounds a lot to me, can't you find a guy in your area that works on the side. 

 

I can get motorbike panels resprayed from 200 to 600 baht, tank repairs and re-spray 500 baht. 

You have to do your decals though if you want any. 

 

I paid 400 for the clutch cable and 700 for a new air filter. That's pretty expensive is it not? They also changed the steering bearings(?) For 657 baht x 2. But I wanted it done quick and it's the only shop I know in my area. 

 

Also the Labour charge seems pretty high too. Don't think I'll take my bike to the Kawa dealers anymore. 

 

 

Yeah I thought it sounded expensive. But the side does have some damage and the fuel tank does have a small dent. But I'll take it to another place that will hopefully be cheaper than that. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Kawazaki650R

[Kawazaki650R]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah the OEM parts will cost more there are some single  speedometer plug ins on  Lazada probably on Shoppee too they look the same but  range from 500 to 2000.

 

So get the cheaper one and see if any good if not you ain't lost too much, or send it back. 

Will do that. Will ask my friend's mechanic and see what he says. 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, Kawazaki650R said:

 

I paid 400 for the clutch cable and 700 for a new air filter. That's pretty expensive is it not? They also changed the steering bearings(?) For 657 baht x 2. But I wanted it done quick and it's the only shop I know in my area. 

 

Also the Labour charge seems pretty high too. Don't think I'll take my bike to the Kawa dealers anymore. 

 

 

Yeah I thought it sounded expensive. But the side does have some damage and the fuel tank does have a small dent. But I'll take it to another place that will hopefully be cheaper than that. 

What was the labour price? Last time I visited a Kawa big bike dealer I believe it was 350,-

 

 

[Kawazaki650R]

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

What was the labour price? Last time I visited a Kawa big bike dealer I believe it was 350,-

 

 

1200 or so. It was there from Tuesday but just waiting on a part. Sounds very expensive to me but didn't know that before. 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Kawazaki650R said:

1200 or so. It was there from Tuesday but just waiting on a part. Sounds very expensive to me but didn't know that before. 

Wow, I would ask. Dont you have a thai who can speak with them for you? 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Kawazaki650R said:

 

I paid 400 for the clutch cable and 700 for a new air filter. That's pretty expensive is it not? They also changed the steering bearings(?) For 657 baht x 2. But I wanted it done quick and it's the only shop I know in my area. 

 

Also the Labour charge seems pretty high too. Don't think I'll take my bike to the Kawa dealers anymore. 

 

 

Yeah I thought it sounded expensive. But the side does have some damage and the fuel tank does have a small dent. But I'll take it to another place that will hopefully be cheaper than that. 

Sounds an OK price for OEM steerhead bearings, changing them is a job I hate doing also changing fork seals.

 

As for clutch cable you could buy one cheaper but you have someone fit if you can't do it yourself. 

 

I guess you could of said no to a airfilter and got a aftermarket washable one again if your able to take out and to work at things like that yourself.

 

Servicing a bike like that is easy enough you can teach yourself to do engine oil change and oil filter.

 

Some people do computer analysis plug in checks theirselves it's something that never interested me so I did use kwaka dealer for that. 

[Kawazaki650R]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Wow, I would ask. Dont you have a thai who can speak with them for you? 

I spoke with the only English speaking staff. I didn't think it was gonna be that expensive. 

[Kawazaki650R]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Sounds an OK price for OEM steerhead bearings, changing them is a job I hate doing also changing fork seals.

 

As for clutch cable you could buy one cheaper but you have someone fit if you can't do it yourself. 

 

I guess you could of said no to a airfilter and got a aftermarket washable one again if your able to take out and to work at things like that yourself.

 

Servicing a bike like that is easy enough you can teach yourself to do engine oil change and oil filter.

 

Some people do computer analysis plug in checks theirselves it's something that never interested me so I did use kwaka dealer for that. 

I just kinda went along with it. Didn't expect the labour to be so expensive and I didn't really wanna bother order the airfilter by myself. But next time I'll take my bike somewhere else I think. The dealership in Bangkok seems pretty expensive. 

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, Kawazaki650R said:

I spoke with the only English speaking staff. I didn't think it was gonna be that expensive. 

It could be 3 people working on your bike, but still should be specified on invoice. 
 

Do you have a link to the Kawa dealer, so we can make sure we stay away from that place if its bad. I had my deal with a few of them before I found a ok one I can trust if Im present and watching them doing the job I want done. 
 

Next time I will buy a new Honda, never had problem with them, and I have 3 big bikes from Honda Big Bike. Always good service wherever I have been, unfortunate not the same experience with Kawa. 
 

Never heard a bad word about Yamaha either, but limited to bangkok for service. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It could be 3 people working on your bike, but still should be specified on invoice. 
 

Do you have a link to the Kawa dealer, so we can make sure we stay away from that place if its bad. I had my deal with a few of them before I found a ok one I can trust if Im present and watching them doing the job I want done. 
 

Next time I will buy a new Honda, never had problem with them, and I have 3 big bikes from Honda Big Bike. Always good service wherever I have been, unfortunate not the same experience with Kawa. 
 

Never heard a bad word about Yamaha either, but limited to bangkok for service. 

They are all the same with older bikes maybe his head bearings didn't need changing but with dealers is change for new don't adjust or fix anything.

 

I find unless you do find a good management dealer that have at least one decent mechanic instead of service spanners and you don't know things yourself you are at their mercy.

 

Stay away from Phisanulok Honda big bike jokers if you have an old bike. 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

They are all the same with older bikes maybe his head bearings didn't need changing but with dealers is change for new don't adjust or fix anything.

 

I find unless you do find a good management dealer that have at least one decent mechanic instead of service spanners and you don't know things yourself you are at their mercy.

 

Stay away from Phisanulok Honda big bike jokers if you have an old bike. 

So far only good experience with Phitsanulok servicing my 500 x and older 250 crf. Bought a 300 crf from them as well, but thanks for the heads up. 
 

The only issue I have with them is not willing to order new tires for me if not in stock

[Kwasaki]

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

So far only good experience with Phitsanulok servicing my 500 x and older 250 crf. Bought a 300 crf from them as well, but thanks for the heads up. 
 

The only issue I have with them is not willing to order new tires for me if not in stock

New bikes you have so no problem.

My friend found that with tyres and his 500x so bought tyres himself and they will fit them. 

 

Red Barron helps me with Honda parts if available if not I searched s/h ones or for after market, P/lock Honda won't help at all. 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Kwasaki

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

New bikes you have so no problem.

My friend found that with tyres and his 500x so bought tyres himself and they will fit them. 

230km away, so I try to find someone closer now who fit tires and do a good balance service as well. Most places they really do not do it properly. Kawasaki   in Phitsanulok Terrible

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

230km away, so I try to find someone closer now who fit tires and do a good balance service as well. Most places they really do not do it properly. Kawasaki   in Phitsanulok Terrible

Yeah it's difficult if you live in places like I do to find a good place to change things on big bikes like tyres.

[papa al]

1 hour ago, Kawazaki650R said:

I spoke with the only English speaking staff. I didn't think it was gonna be that expensive. 

///////

State your location.

Maybe somebody can refer to good indy shop.

Those prices from Kawasaki didn't sound excessive.

Reality:   They have big overhead.

America $100/hr.

Y'all quit whinging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, papa al said:

Y'all quit whinging.

Nah I will whing at Honda about a 29 year old bike when someone with a 50 year old Triumph can still get parts. ????

And no I don't want Triumph. ????

[Kawazaki650R]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Sounds a lot to me, can't you find a guy in your area that works on the side. 

 

I can get motorbike panels resprayed from 200 to 600 baht, tank repairs and re-spray 500 baht. 

You have to do your decals though if you want any. 

Where's this place? In Bangkok? Could you give me the adress? 

[KhaoYai]

If the forks are not pitted you can usually refurbish them relatively cheaply. Springs, seals, bushes and oil should be all that's needed but you might consider replacing the headstock bearings at the same time.  That is of course, subject to the parts being available at reasonable cost.

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, Kawazaki650R said:

Where's this place? In Bangkok? Could you give me the adress? 

Nah sorry buddy my guy is in Old city Baan Na Sukhothai near where I live. 

 

He works in a car workshop but his boss let's do some work on the side.

You have to take everything off the bike he doesn't do that he only prepares and re-sprays the panels you give him.