Putin's NUCLEAR threat to the West: Vladimir warns Ukraine's allies he will use 'weapons of destruction',

[Eric Loh]

Interesting read on the chain of command for potential Russia nuclear strike. My key takeways are:-

1. Putin has a small briefcase known as Cheget that link him to the command and control network of Russia's strategic nuclear forces BUT he don't have the launch code. Whether the General Staff who has the code will obey his order is not straightforward.

2. Russia has a doctrine on nuclear launch which laid out 4 scenarios. One scenario pertained to Ukraine and the coming referendums i.e. if the ánnexed provinces are attacked, that can be interpreted as threat to Russia existence.

3. No nuclear weapons have been used since the 2 atomic bombs on 2 cities in Japan in 1945. Deterrent may prevent Putin doing a reckless act.  

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-is-chain-command-potential-russian-nuclear-strikes-2022-03-02/

[Social Media]

 

[Andrew65]

17 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Yet on the bright side: Thailand is going to have massive arrivals of tourists. Shops and bars should learn how to cook borzsh and pirogi. And learn basic phrases.

A few months ago I saw a report about large numbers of Russians showing up in Finland, I suspected they were there to avoid the draft!

[connda]

20 hours ago, Rimmer said:

Putin then vowed to use 'all means' to defend the 'new territories', adding: 'I'm not bluffing... Those trying to blackmail us with nuclear weapons should know that the tables can turn on them.'

This is his exact words: 

"Washington, London and Brussels are openly encouraging Kiev to move the hostilities to our territory. They openly say that Russia must be defeated on the battlefield by any means, and subsequently deprived of political, economic, cultural and any other sovereignty and ransacked.

They have even resorted to the nuclear blackmail. I am referring not only to the Western-encouraged shelling of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, which poses a threat of a nuclear disaster, but also to the statements made by some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction – nuclear weapons – against Russia.

I would like to remind those who make such statements regarding Russia that our country has different types of weapons as well, and some of them are more modern than the weapons NATO countries have. In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.
The citizens of Russia can rest assured that the territorial integrity of our Motherland, our independence and freedom will be defended – I repeat – by all the systems available to us. Those who are using nuclear blackmail against us should know that the wind rose can turn around."
Source: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390
 

There are no winners in a nuclear war.  Every sane person world-wide should be encouraging all sides of the conflict to deescalate and open a sincere dialogue.  Just stop - talk now!

Regardless of who strikes first with nukes, the world ends.  Mutually Assured Destruction.
The only ones who escape will be your "leaders" and their closest corporate friends.  They all have little incentive to stop this madness because they know they will survive.
You and I?  We will not.

Edited September 22, 2022 by connda

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Or perhaps we can all believe that the other countries who have nukes will all just sit there and say 'never mind'.

 

Seems to me there would be a very quick solid reaction from several countries if Putin did send a nuke.  I can't belive there would be no reaction.

Such as? China, Pakistan, India or Nth Korea? LOL.

You reckon France wants Paris reduced to ash, or the UK London? Any others come to mind?

[Simple Jack]

Seems to be a bit of confusion between tactical vs strategic weapons.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

This is his exact words: 

"Washington, London and Brussels are openly encouraging Kiev to move the hostilities to our territory. They openly say that Russia must be defeated on the battlefield by any means, and subsequently deprived of political, economic, cultural and any other sovereignty and ransacked.

They have even resorted to the nuclear blackmail. I am referring not only to the Western-encouraged shelling of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, which poses a threat of a nuclear disaster, but also to the statements made by some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction – nuclear weapons – against Russia.

I would like to remind those who make such statements regarding Russia that our country has different types of weapons as well, and some of them are more modern than the weapons NATO countries have. In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff."
Source: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390
 

There are no winners in a nuclear war.  Every sane person world-wide should be encouraging all sides of the conflict to deescalate and open a sincere dialogue.  Just stop - talk now!

Regardless of who strikes first with nukes, the world ends.  Mutually Assured Destruction.
The only ones who escape will be your "leaders" and their closest corporate friends.  They all have little incentive to stop this madness because they know they will survive.
You and I?  We will not.

You mean those are his own lies:

The west has never resorted to nuclear blackmail nor have any NATO countries.

 

However agreed on the "just stop" statement you made. Very easy, Putin can stop it at any time. Stop attacking, remove his troops. Dialogue will follow along with war International War Crime tribunals. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

Non-tactical nuclear strikes on NATO members, I assume,  would be countered with nuclear strikes on Russia with a view to ending things as quickly as possible.

I assume you are aware that Russia has submarine launched nukes? No such thing as  "quick" elimination of Russia's nuclear arsenal, IMO.

Anyway, no one is talking about non-tactical nuclear strikes on NATO members far as I know- not even tactical ones. Any nuclear attack on a NATO member would be the end, just as a nuclear strike on Russia is also the end.

[connda]

3 minutes ago, Simple Jack said:

Seems to be a bit of confusion between tactical vs strategic weapons.

It doesn't matter.  A tactical strike by any country will escalate into the use of strategic weapons globally and then all surface dwellers die.  The elite will go underground.  You won't be invited to survive.
What I find deeply disturbing is that a segment of the Earth's population believe that tactical nukes can be used without global consequences.  That's a flawed assumption.  Pray that you're directly under one of the resultant blasts as dying of radiation sickness will give you plenty of time to reflect on the insanity of that position. 

[Phulublub]

13 minutes ago, connda said:

The only ones who escape will be your "leaders" and their closest corporate friends.  They all have little incentive to stop this madness because they know they will survive.

Nonsense!  "They" might well survive the initial effects, but what point an extra few months living in a cave with ever dwindling supplies?

 

PH

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Tropposurfer said:

It'll sadly and tragically be a long and bloody war as all wars are.

The world should arm Ukraine to the teeth.

I'd like to see a quasi anti-fascist ala Spanish Civil War of 1936 militia formed from across the globe to go and drive the Russians back behind their own borders. 

I hope as the Ukrainians are speaking out about; They drive all those Russians who invaded with arms from their soil and ultimately this includes the Crimea as well.

If someone came to my country like Putin has done 'over there' I would fight and die, if need be, to drive them out.

Why should I expect Ukraine to settle for anything less than what I hold so precious and sacred and a human right for all of us and would die for; their full autonomous freedom?

They already have foreign fighters. Anyone wishing to join in is welcome to enlist.

[tomazbodner]

Reported in some European media is that the prices of flights out of Russia have skyrocketed and all seats taken for several days, with price from Moscow to Dubai exceeding 300k Rubles, following the mobilisation announcement. For most Russians that's apparently half a year of salary. Most tickets bought are one way. I can attach link but it's not in English... Googled several articles in English, so putting Associated Press one in link below. Not 100% identical, but should do...

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-fleeing-mobilization-dbe01d0c9be45a8c479565501a2a8f32

 

Decided to leave this post anyway, although I now see a video a few posts up about the same thing...

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by tomazbodner
noticed video on same topic a few posts up

[Bluespunk]

25 minutes ago, Simple Jack said:

Seems to be a bit of confusion between tactical vs strategic weapons.

I think [at least on my part] the fear is that the use of one eventually will lead to the use of the other.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Rimmer]

A misinformation troll post and a reply have been removed

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Ukraine (backed by NATO) should stop bombing the nuclear power plant at Zaporozhye. That’s a form of nuclear blackmail.

The only nuclear blackmail was Russia taking control of Zaporizhzhia and storing its military equipment there. IAEA have been asking, as have Ukraine for a demilitarized zone around it. Russia have so far refused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ_Gua00oiI

 

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, connda said:

This is his exact words: 

"Washington, London and Brussels are openly encouraging Kiev to move the hostilities to our territory. They openly say that Russia must be defeated on the battlefield by any means, and subsequently deprived of political, economic, cultural and any other sovereignty and ransacked.

They have even resorted to the nuclear blackmail. I am referring not only to the Western-encouraged shelling of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, which poses a threat of a nuclear disaster, but also to the statements made by some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction – nuclear weapons – against Russia.

I would like to remind those who make such statements regarding Russia that our country has different types of weapons as well, and some of them are more modern than the weapons NATO countries have. In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.
The citizens of Russia can rest assured that the territorial integrity of our Motherland, our independence and freedom will be defended – I repeat – by all the systems available to us. Those who are using nuclear blackmail against us should know that the wind rose can turn around."
Source: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390
 

There are no winners in a nuclear war.  Every sane person world-wide should be encouraging all sides of the conflict to deescalate and open a sincere dialogue.  Just stop - talk now!

Regardless of who strikes first with nukes, the world ends.  Mutually Assured Destruction.
The only ones who escape will be your "leaders" and their closest corporate friends.  They all have little incentive to stop this madness because they know they will survive.
You and I?  We will not.

You really believe that tripe from Putin? It’s a desperate attempt to save face after his failures on the battlefield and his mass war crimes. The rapes, tortures, murders of civilians and children, forced deportations of Ukrainians to Russia. 

It needs to stop, period but it is him and him alone who needs to stop the invasion.

Edited September 22, 2022 by coolcarer
Spelling

[transam]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Such as? China, Pakistan, India or Nth Korea? LOL.

You reckon France wants Paris reduced to ash, or the UK London? Any others come to mind?

Moscow.....

[John Drake]

5 hours ago, vandeventer said:

All eyes are on Russia but my eyes are on China,. Putin must be removed and the war against Ukraine must be stopped. The Russian people need to do this and do it now.

It should be made clear to China (and India) that they will not escape the consequences of their Russian ally's actions. They should know now they will not be able to pick up the pieces and enrich themselves. One side, here, will need to back down and lose face. If Putin does, he's likely out. And then what happens when we find out that all the time Putin really was the moderate voice of Russia and what is there now is even worse. If Biden and Nato back down, then the door is open for Russia to repeat the very same scenario all the way to Berlin in the West and Afghanistan in the south.

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

However agreed on the "just stop" statement you made. Very easy, Putin can stop it at any time. Stop attacking, remove his troops.

How does he do that? If he does, he'll be torn to pieces. What's his personal incentive to do so?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

How does he do that? If he does, he'll be torn to pieces. What's his personal incentive to do so?

He started it, its a problem all of his own making, now face the consequences. Incentives? What do your reward a murderer with? Ukraine already gave him many incentives that he ignored such as stating publicly they would not join NATO.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, connda said:

This is his exact words: 

"Washington, London and Brussels are openly encouraging Kiev to move the hostilities to our territory. They openly say that Russia must be defeated on the battlefield by any means, and subsequently deprived of political, economic, cultural and any other sovereignty and ransacked.

They have even resorted to the nuclear blackmail. I am referring not only to the Western-encouraged shelling of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, which poses a threat of a nuclear disaster, but also to the statements made by some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction – nuclear weapons – against Russia.

I would like to remind those who make such statements regarding Russia that our country has different types of weapons as well, and some of them are more modern than the weapons NATO countries have. In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff.
The citizens of Russia can rest assured that the territorial integrity of our Motherland, our independence and freedom will be defended – I repeat – by all the systems available to us. Those who are using nuclear blackmail against us should know that the wind rose can turn around."
Source: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390
 

There are no winners in a nuclear war.  Every sane person world-wide should be encouraging all sides of the conflict to deescalate and open a sincere dialogue.  Just stop - talk now!

Regardless of who strikes first with nukes, the world ends.  Mutually Assured Destruction.
The only ones who escape will be your "leaders" and their closest corporate friends.  They all have little incentive to stop this madness because they know they will survive.
You and I?  We will not.

You're expecting sincerity from someone who declared that the "Special Military Operation" was undertaken to rid Ukraine of the Nazis ruling the country?

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

He started it, its a problem all of his own making, now face the consequences. Incentives? What do your reward a murderer with? Ukraine already gave him many incentives that he ignored such as stating publicly they would not join NATO.

Everybody is in a box. Putin cannot back down. Neither can nato. Whomever does so would be finished, their credibility destroyed. Putin appears to be playing for all the marbles. What do you think will happen if nato retaliates with nuclear weapons. And if Putin does in fact "face the consequences" with his own people, please note that a solid number, perhaps the majority, behind the scenes think Putin is a "dangerous compromiser." They want a harder line.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Everybody is in a box. Putin cannot back down. Neither can nato. Whomever does so would be finished, their credibility destroyed. Putin appears to be playing for all the marbles. What do you think will happen if nato retaliates with nuclear weapons. And if Putin does in fact "face the consequences" with his own people, please note that a solid number, perhaps the majority, behind the scenes think Putin is a "dangerous compromiser." They want a harder line.

Lets face it. The only people in a box are Ukraine, its their own country they are fighting for. As long as they have the wish and resolve to fight then NATO and other countries will help them. You cant give into nuclear threats from Putin just because of his twisted ambitions. Its not about NATO and their retaliation, its about Putin's aggressive and barbaric actions that need to stop. Worrying about a possible future replacement to Putin is not on the agenda.

[John Drake]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lets face it. The only people in a box are Ukraine, its their own country they are fighting for. As long as they have the wish and resolve to fight then NATO and other countries will help them. You cant give into nuclear threats from Putin just because of his twisted ambitions. Its not about NATO and their retaliation, its about Putin's aggressive and barbaric actions that need to stop. Worrying about a possible future replacement to Putin is not on the agenda.

Okay, Ukraine is now winning the war. And they will keep fighting to regain the territory Russia invaded and occupied. They likely can capture it. To stop that, Putin says he'll use nuclear weapons. If he does, what does Ukraine do? They cannot retaliate with their own nuclear weapons--they haven't any. What do Biden and Nato do? Use nuclear weapons in the Russian occupied territories? How does this end? You tell me.

Edited September 22, 2022 by John Drake

[placeholder]

Just now, John Drake said:

Okay, Ukraine is now winning the war. And they will keep fighting to regain the territory Russia invaded and occupied. They likely can capture it. To stop that, Putin says he'll use nuclear weapons. If he does, what does Ukraine do? They cannot retaliate with their own nuclear weapons. What does Biden and Nato do? Use nuclear weapons in the Russian occupied territories? How does this end? You tell me.

Conventional weapons?

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Conventional weapons?

Where? The current rump Ukraine? Occupied Ukraine? Occupied Crimea? Russia itself? Look, I don't know. I'm just asking questions. Where does all this lead? Personally, I have no idea.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, John Drake said:

Okay, Ukraine is now winning the war. And they will keep fighting to regain the territory Russia invaded and occupied. They likely can capture it. To stop that, Putin says he'll use nuclear weapons. If he does, what does Ukraine do? They cannot retaliate with their own nuclear weapons. What does Biden and Nato do? Use nuclear weapons in the Russian occupied territories? How does this end? You tell me.

Did I say I was able to predict the future? How can anyone say how this will end? This is unknown territory for all involved. Or are future predictions something you have greater knowledge than me of?

[jvs]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Okay, Ukraine is now winning the war. And they will keep fighting to regain the territory Russia invaded and occupied. They likely can capture it. To stop that, Putin says he'll use nuclear weapons. If he does, what does Ukraine do? They cannot retaliate with their own nuclear weapons--they haven't any. What do Biden and Nato do? Use nuclear weapons in the Russian occupied territories? How does this end? You tell me.

Will putin use nukes on his own newly conquered territory?

He probably would,can you see how twisted this guy really is.He was supposed to help the people over there.(his own words)

Nato could tell him not to resort to that or he will be attacked inside Russia.

Lets just give the real Russian people a chance,a lot of them already

risked their lives by demonstrating against this insane war and their insane leader.

Maybe a lot more will see the light and start a nation wide protest.

They can not put all in jail and the only option left to putin would be shooting at protesters.

That would be his last bad move.

 

 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Okay, Ukraine is now winning the war. And they will keep fighting to regain the territory Russia invaded and occupied. They likely can capture it. To stop that, Putin says he'll use nuclear weapons. If he does, what does Ukraine do? They cannot retaliate with their own nuclear weapons--they haven't any. What do Biden and Nato do? Use nuclear weapons in the Russian occupied territories? How does this end? You tell me.

Unknown but based on war games such a scenario will lead to full blown nuclear warwith Russia, Europe, and North America destroyed plus nuclear winter.

 

But if lucky some heroes in the Kremlin will take care of Putin.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Jingthing

[bangon04]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

We can't really know what Putin is exactly thinking but it is documented that he is obsessed with what happens to toppled dictators like Gaddafi. He's fighting not only for his own political power survival and legacy but also for his own life. How much does he really case beyond his own life which indeed is probably over if he is forced to give up power? We can't know and there is a big danger there. If he doesn't care at all, what's it to him if he blows up the world?

A while ago there were lots of rumors circulating about his health. Could it be that he feels he personally has nothing more to lose?

 

It is probably time to give Russia a full Cold War because that would be the safest option. Then we can hope that one of his budyguards puts a bullet in the back of his head.