US SSA Form 7161/7162

[Pib]

Well, after a couple years of the SSA not mailing "Are You Dead or Alive" forms due to the COVID pandemic both the wife and I received a SSA-7162 today/8 July 2022.  We live in Bangkok.  Apparently the SSA is back to mailing the forms on a regular annual basis for us Thailand-based old folks.   Will complete and mail the forms back today.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

A notice done by the SSA last month was posted here in the old ongoing topic about the SSA-7162 forms.

Been waiting for it to appear this month.

[Sheryl]

Haven't gotten mine and will soon leave for the US for over 2 months. By when does it need to be sent back?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Haven't gotten mine and will soon leave for the US for over 2 months. By when does it need to be sent back?

If it has not been received 60 days after it was printed they will send a 2nd one to be sent.

From what I understand normally if it is not received by December they will send you a letter informing you that it needs to be received or your payments will be stopped in  February.

[Pawpcorn]

Yup, got mine today, checked all the NO boxes, signed it poorly, and mailed it back same day...

 

Certified, Priority, Registered, Air Mail, cost me 325 Baht for this high priority method!

 

Figured it was worth my peace of mind...

[Pib]

Got the wife's and my forms mailed back today/8 July.  Mailed both via Regular Airmail which cost Bt49 per envelope using the SSA-provided enveloped going to Wilkes Barre PA.  Registered Airmail would have cost around double based on some mailings I did a few years ago.

 

Back in mid 2019 (pre-COVID pandemic) I did 5 test mailings from Bangkok to some mail forwarding addresses I have in Texas and California where I'm immediately notified via email of the mail arrival.   I would mail two envelopes at the post office at the same time from Bangkok....one via "Regular" Airmail and one via "Registered" Airmail in identical envelopes.   All that was in each envelope was once piece of A4 sized paper.

 

Those envelopes sent via Regular Airmail arrived in 10 to 14 days but those sent via Registered Airmail took 21 to 40 days.   And the Registered Airmail would go MIA in the Thai Postal & U.S. Postal tracking systems for a week or two after leaving Bangkok and before reappearing on the tracking systems radar screens again upon arrival at the New York City International Postal Center.   

 

Then that Registered Airmail always got bogged down at the NYC Int'l Center for approx 3 to 7 days in clearing customs before being released into the domestic US Postal System.   So, ever since then I have just used Regular Airmail when mailing envelopes back to the U.S. since the mail arrived a lot faster while also being cheaper than using Registered Airmail.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Got the wife's and my forms mailed back today/8 July.  Mailed both via Regular Airmail which cost Bt49 per envelope using the SSA-provided enveloped going to Wilkes Barre PA.  Registered Airmail would have cost around double based on some mailings I did a few years ago.

 

Back in mid 2019 (pre-COVID pandemic) I did 5 test mailings from Bangkok to some mail forwarding addresses I have in Texas and California where I'm immediately notified via email of the mail arrival.   I would mail two envelopes at the post office at the same time from Bangkok....one via "Regular" Airmail and one via "Registered" Airmail in identical envelopes.   All that was in each envelope was once piece of A4 sized paper.

 

Those envelopes sent via Regular Airmail arrived in 10 to 14 days but those sent via Registered Airmail took 21 to 40 days.   And the Registered Airmail would go MIA in the Thai Postal & U.S. Postal tracking systems for a week or two after leaving Bangkok and before reappearing on the tracking systems radar screens again upon arrival at the New York City International Postal Center.   

 

Then that Registered Airmail always got bogged down at the NYC Int'l Center for approx 3 to 7 days in clearing customs before being released into the domestic US Postal System.   So, ever since then I have just used Regular Airmail when mailing envelopes back to the U.S. since the mail arrived a lot faster while also being cheaper than using Registered Airmail.

I would worry about now knowing if they were received.  Yes, one should get another notice if not received - but mail out where I live is a  hit or miss affair and lots go missing.

 

Incredible that they still insist on snail mail in this day and age. So does the IRS.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I would worry about now knowing if they were received.  Yes, one should get another notice if not received - but mail out where I live is a  hit or miss affair and lots go missing.

 

Incredible that they still insist on snail mail in this day and age. So does the IRS.

Knock on wood (my head), but so far I've never had a problem in mail going from the Thailand to the U.S. reaching it's destination.  And those test mailings I did to check the speed of regular airmail and registered airmail proved to me registered mail can take 2 to 3 times longer to reach it's U.S. destination....maybe so much longer that the SSA receives it "after" they have sent you a second mailing which makes a person think their first mail-back never made it to the SSA.....then the person mails in another Dead or Alive form.  

 

Plus, with the Dead or Alive form if the SSA does not receive your response to your first mailing within 60 days they then mail you another request.....and if you don't respond to that second mailing within 45 days then they mail you a letter in mid Jan saying your benefits are being suspended for the Feb payment until they do hear from you.   Here is a link to the SSA instruction covering the mailing/follow-up for Dead or Alive forms formally called the Foreign Enforcement Program.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302655010

 

Yea, the SSA stills wants a mailed copy with handwritten signature/mark on the form versus going with an online system with digital signature.   Probably has something to do in them trying to ensure a person has provided/kept up to date their foreign address,  many older folks are not computer/online literate but can still lick a stamp just fine, some may not have easy (or any) access to online access considering there are beneficiaries almost everywhere in the world, and maybe "legal-wise" it makes it easier to prosecute anyone involved in fraudulent submissions.   But hey, I'm guessing as to the "why's" for requiring the snail mail process over an online process.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Pib

[Sheryl]

Easily 50% of things I have mailed to the US have been lost and never arrived. And about the same for incoming.

 

I have had major problems due to never receiving IRS notifications and the like.

Mail to/from  upcountry rural areas is a lot chancier than in Bangkok.

 

[zlodnick]

Here, where we live in Issan, the mail is very unreliable, so I send my forms back  EMS. 

The way I look at it is, I can track it, I know that they received it and hey, 50 bucks a year isn't going to bankrupt me.

 This is the first year my wife will receive the form. I'm thinking about sending both forms in one large envelope. I don't see why that shouldn't work?

[jeffandgop]

Got mine 2 days ago. Appreciated that information re regular airmail being faster than registered. 
Inasmuch I’ll be in the US for a brief visit soon I’ll be taking my form w me and mailing it while I am there

[George Bowman]

I also received my 'dead or alive' letter and it got me to thinking.  What if I had a stroke and was unable to sign my name?  Now I'm certain that there is a myriad of rules and regulations to follow concerning this possible scenario, but it would be a lot easier just for the wife to make an X and sign as a witness. 

 

I suppose she could also fake my signature and send the yearly forms back. I'd be willingly to bet that there are widows somewhere in deepest, darkest Thailand that have been doing this for years.  Surely, the US pencil pushers have means to prevent this, but I have no idea. 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, George Bowman said:

I suppose she could also fake my signature and send the yearly forms back. I'd be willingly to bet that there are widows somewhere in deepest, darkest Thailand that have been doing this for years.  Surely, the US pencil pushers have means to prevent this, but I have no idea. 

I don't think they check signatures when the they receive the SSA-7162. I assume they just scan the form and that is it.

The US embassy will report your death to all the relevant agencies when they are informed of your death.

[Pib]

8 hours ago, George Bowman said:

I also received my 'dead or alive' letter and it got me to thinking.  What if I had a stroke and was unable to sign my name?  Now I'm certain that there is a myriad of rules and regulations to follow concerning this possible scenario, but it would be a lot easier just for the wife to make an X and sign as a witness. 

 

I suppose she could also fake my signature and send the yearly forms back. I'd be willingly to bet that there are widows somewhere in deepest, darkest Thailand that have been doing this for years.  Surely, the US pencil pushers have means to prevent this, but I have no idea. 

If you were unable to sign the form/make an X on the form (like being in a coma) that would probably mean you also would not be able to handle funds.   So, in that case a person, such as your spouse, would probably need to be designated as your representative to receive & manage the funds for you....and to confirm periodically that you are still kicking vs having been barbequed at the local temple.   The representative program has different/detailed reporting requirements. See below weblink for a bunch of FAQ regarding Representative Payees.   

 

Now in those cases where a person's inability to manage his/her SSA Pension or even make a X on a 7162 form, like being in a coma for a few months, I expect the person's servicing SSA Office (i.e., Manila SSA FBU) should be contacted for guidance as the servicing local SSA office has the responsibility to determine what is going on with an individual like when not responding to the annual Are You Dead or Alive form.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/payee/faqrep.htm?tl=5%2C27%2C28%2C29

[NancyL]

Never had a problem with receiving mail at our condo, one of the largest in Chiang Mai with good practices in the office.  Had problems in another condo in Chiang Mai where the office practice was to lay all in the incoming mail out on a table and let the residents pick thru it, looking for their stuff, including packages.  Argh!

 

Always mail directly from a post office, and not one of those contract places, either.  Never had a problem with something not arriving.

[ubonjoe]

Got mine this afternoon.

Did this post in other topic about it. 

 

[connda]

On 7/8/2022 at 2:11 PM, Pib said:

Got the wife's and my forms mailed back today/8 July.  Mailed both via Regular Airmail which cost Bt49 per envelope using the SSA-provided enveloped going to Wilkes Barre PA.  Registered Airmail would have cost around double based on some mailings I did a few years ago.

 

Back in mid 2019 (pre-COVID pandemic) I did 5 test mailings from Bangkok to some mail forwarding addresses I have in Texas and California where I'm immediately notified via email of the mail arrival.   I would mail two envelopes at the post office at the same time from Bangkok....one via "Regular" Airmail and one via "Registered" Airmail in identical envelopes.   All that was in each envelope was once piece of A4 sized paper.

 

Those envelopes sent via Regular Airmail arrived in 10 to 14 days but those sent via Registered Airmail took 21 to 40 days.   And the Registered Airmail would go MIA in the Thai Postal & U.S. Postal tracking systems for a week or two after leaving Bangkok and before reappearing on the tracking systems radar screens again upon arrival at the New York City International Postal Center.   

 

Then that Registered Airmail always got bogged down at the NYC Int'l Center for approx 3 to 7 days in clearing customs before being released into the domestic US Postal System.   So, ever since then I have just used Regular Airmail when mailing envelopes back to the U.S. since the mail arrived a lot faster while also being cheaper than using Registered Airmail.

I will not send mine out by registered mail again.  The last time I did that it took over two months to get to SSA in the US and it was late.  The next time I just sent it via regular mail. No problem.

I checked my PO Box three days back but no SSA form.  I'll check again on Friday.

[connda]

Isn't there a way to download a blank SSA-7162.
If so, does another remember the link?

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, connda said:

Isn't there a way to download a blank SSA-7162.
If so, does another remember the link?

I have one that the Manila office sent me a few years ago that is dated 7-2011.

The one I got by mail yesterday is dated 04-2020.

[John Drake]

On 7/8/2022 at 1:19 PM, Pawpcorn said:

Certified, Priority, Registered, Air Mail, cost me 325 Baht for this high priority method!

Yes, sent mine today. Paid 320 baht (don't know why the difference). Picked it up at my PO Box and filled it out right there, and sent it registered.

[connda]

On 7/13/2022 at 3:59 PM, John Drake said:

Yes, sent mine today. Paid 320 baht (don't know why the difference). Picked it up at my PO Box and filled it out right there, and sent it registered.

Hey JD.
Keep an eye out on the "Registered" tracking for your letter.
The last time I sent my 'Registered" it got 'stuck' in New York for a couple of weeks, and then it stayed stuck at the Wilkes-Barr post office for over 30 days.  It got delivered after the cut-off date for receiving the forms.  I got the distinct feeling that registered mail addressed to SSA at Wilks-Barr PA were being deliberately held up by some sadistic petty bureaucrat.  And I was not the only member of TV/AN who had this happen.

I don't recommend sending by registered mail.  Others have sent it by EMS without an issue.  But to be honest, sending it regular First Class Airmail seems to do the trick.

Another way to be sure is to make copies of the SSA SSA-7162 form and send a second one.  I'm less concerned for the first mail out.  If they don't get the form you'll get another one in October.
Anyway - keep an eye on that Registered Mail tracking and make sure it doesn't get thrown into the Pits Of USPS Non-Efficiency.

[John Drake]

42 minutes ago, connda said:

Hey JD.
Keep an eye out on the "Registered" tracking for your letter.
The last time I sent my 'Registered" it got 'stuck' in New York for a couple of weeks, and then it stayed stuck at the Wilkes-Barr post office for over 30 days.  It got delivered after the cut-off date for receiving the forms.  I got the distinct feeling that registered mail addressed to SSA at Wilks-Barr PA were being deliberately held up by some sadistic petty bureaucrat.  And I was not the only member of TV/AN who had this happen.

I don't recommend sending by registered mail.  Others have sent it by EMS without an issue.  But to be honest, sending it regular First Class Airmail seems to do the trick.

Another way to be sure is to make copies of the SSA SSA-7162 form and send a second one.  I'm less concerned for the first mail out.  If they don't get the form you'll get another one in October.
Anyway - keep an eye on that Registered Mail tracking and make sure it doesn't get thrown into the Pits Of USPS Non-Efficiency.

I'll do so. It was already on its way out of the country the next day, two days ago. I've sent this form via registered mail before. Of course, that was before Covid has made the rickety US Mail even more so. 

[connda]

56 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I'll do so. It was already on its way out of the country the next day, two days ago. I've sent this form via registered mail before. Of course, that was before Covid has made the rickety US Mail even more so. 

I've noticed that outbound and inbound from the Airport in Bangkok takes at most 48 hours. 
But lord, once it hits the United States all bets are off.  When family sends my mail it usually takes a week or longer to get to the airport for departure to Thailand.  USPS has problems imho.

But courier is simply too expensive nowadays. 

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

I've noticed that outbound and inbound from the Airport in Bangkok takes at most 48 hours. 
But lord, once it hits the United States all bets are off.  When family sends my mail it usually takes a week or longer to get to the airport for departure to Thailand.  USPS has problems imho.

But courier is simply too expensive nowadays. 

I order a lot of books from the US and UK. Shipping from the US now runs between $27 and $50 per book and takes four to six weeks for delivery. Shipping from the UK is still the equivalent of around $6 and takes less than two weeks. This is the case consistently. 

[jimgilly]

19 hours ago, John Drake said:

I order a lot of books from the US and UK. Shipping from the US now runs between $27 and $50 per book and takes four to six weeks for delivery. Shipping from the UK is still the equivalent of around $6 and takes less than two weeks. This is the case consistently. 

Why would you pay $27 to $50 to get a book when that's got to be a lot more than the cost of the book itself?

[John Drake]

3 hours ago, jimgilly said:

Why would you pay $27 to $50 to get a book when that's got to be a lot more than the cost of the book itself?

Because they are rare and out of print. I'm more than satisfied to download a Kindle copy or go to Z library. But they don't have what I need all the time. I use them for research purposes and publishing articles. Most of the time, that means going to ABE for the hard to get stuff.

[connda]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:06 PM, John Drake said:

I order a lot of books from the US and UK. Shipping from the US now runs between $27 and $50 per book and takes four to six weeks for delivery. Shipping from the UK is still the equivalent of around $6 and takes less than two weeks. This is the case consistently. 

Good lord.  Up to $50 per book just for shipping.  Ackkk.
No wonder I just use Kindle, or look for free books on the Internet (Project Gutenberg and others).  My goodness, John Drake, what type of books do you buy where you're willing to shell out 25 to 50 bucks on shipping?  Just curious.  ????

By the way - I do like the feel of a bound book for reading.  I think the last bound book I read was A Dance with Dragons.  It seems that author doesn't plan to finish what he started.  But I like those 1000 page books.  But I don't expect to be reading any more JRRM.  I've given up on ever seeing The Winds Of Winter published.

And then my eye's as I hit 70 years old.  I find I spell my reading with listening to audio books.  I reread Lord of the Ring about every 10 to 12 years.  It's just one of those books.  But this time around I'm listening to it as a audio book.  It's really good and doesn't impact my eyes.  I can close my eyes and float in imagination.  In fact now?  I can indulge in a little 'legal' bud and let my imagination run free with the narration of the book.
I've never done that before.  It's unique.

Sorry.  Sorta off topic except of the info about international mail.  To get back on topic, I'll need to check my PO box on Monday.  If the form is there, I'll make a couple of copies and then send the original via Thai First Class Airmail post.  That should be good enough imho. 
 

[connda]

4 hours ago, John Drake said:

Because they are rare and out of print. I'm more than satisfied to download a Kindle copy or go to Z library. But they don't have what I need all the time. I use them for research purposes and publishing articles. Most of the time, that means going to ABE for the hard to get stuff.

I sorta know what you mean.  Like this book which went out of print. For me it was the quintessential book for Vipassana and the Thai Forest Tradition Buddhism. 
This went out of print.   If I needed to replace it I'd pay 25-50 buck.  it's a keeper. 

[connda]

On 7/16/2022 at 1:06 PM, John Drake said:

I order a lot of books from the US and UK. Shipping from the US now runs between $27 and $50 per book and takes four to six weeks for delivery. Shipping from the UK is still the equivalent of around $6 and takes less than two weeks. This is the case consistently. 

 

6 hours ago, jimgilly said:

Why would you pay $27 to $50 to get a book when that's got to be a lot more than the cost of the book itself?

 

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

Because they are rare and out of print. I'm more than satisfied to download a Kindle copy or go to Z library. But they don't have what I need all the time. I use them for research purposes and publishing articles. Most of the time, that means going to ABE for the hard to get stuff.

 

13 minutes ago, connda said:

Good lord.  Up to $50 per book just for shipping.  Ackkk.
No wonder I just use Kindle, or look for free books on the Internet (Project Gutenberg and others).  My goodness, John Drake, what type of books do you buy where you're willing to shell out 25 to 50 bucks on shipping?  Just curious.  ????

By the way - I do like the feel of a bound book for reading.  I think the last bound book I read was A Dance with Dragons.  It seems that author doesn't plan to finish what he started.  But I like those 1000 page books.  But I don't expect to be reading any more JRRM.  I've given up on ever seeing The Winds Of Winter published.

And then my eye's as I hit 70 years old.  I find I spell my reading with listening to audio books.  I reread Lord of the Ring about every 10 to 12 years.  It's just one of those books.  But this time around I'm listening to it as a audio book.  It's really good and doesn't impact my eyes.  I can close my eyes and float in imagination.  In fact now?  I can indulge in a little 'legal' bud and let my imagination run free with the narration of the book.
I've never done that before.  It's unique.

Sorry.  Sorta off topic except of the info about international mail.  To get back on topic, I'll need to check my PO box on Monday.  If the form is there, I'll make a couple of copies and then send the original via Thai First Class Airmail post.  That should be good enough imho. 
 

 

4 minutes ago, connda said:

I sorta know what you mean.  Like this book which went out of print. For me it was the quintessential book for Vipassana and the Thai Forest Tradition Buddhism. 
This went out of print.   If I needed to replace it I'd pay 25-50 buck.  it's a keeper. 

Topic-wise, these posts may be a better fit over hear where CharlieH pinned my thread about Reading.

 

[Pib]

Some test mailing results I just posted over in another 7162 related thread.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Pib