Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

English language is an important commodity that is sold around the world.

Although many claim US English as the dominant form, when it comes to learning English by both children and adults, British English was equally popular. Many international schools in Thailand and around the world use the UK curriculum. One now has to worry about the future of British English as industries around the world see it as less important than US English and other languages like French, German Chinese Korean, Japanese etc etc….

 

However the UK or England at least, has gone against the grain – rather than learning to do business with people who speak other languages, with Brexit they have withdrawn into themselves. As little England they no longer want to trade with the biggest trading block in the world or benefit from the world trade that brings in but are concentrating instead on home-growing enough turnips to fill the gaps left in supermarket selves by produce from the EU that is no longer available.....

Nonsense. Trade would be fun. what?

[kwilco]

Post Brexit chaos – the reality still has to take effect - weather is of course not a factor as it happens every year and every country is accustomed to its own weather - only a Brexiteer would be surprised by winter

 

Thanks to import export checks, Kent has become a lorry park. A lot of trade has sought other ways of getting to the EU – the Humber has done well out of this so far, but the problem is that full documentation has been postponed several times over and now won’t come into force until 2024 which will again will reduce the roads into ALL posts to vehicle parks again.

EU goods continue to be largely waved through all ports after the Government in an effort to put off the inevitable,  pushed back checks. It is possible the Government will decide to keep postponing the system as it is until 2024 when the full force will be felt.

Although trade itself has not increased a greater percentage of what is left is using the Humber.

 

Britain’s economy is forecast to shrink by 0.4% in 2023, more than any other in the Group of Seven richest nations, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). Britain is the only G-7 member whose economy has yet to return to pre-pandemic levels.

In the Group of 20, or G-20, largest economies, only Russia’s is expected to fare worse than Britain’s in the coming two years.

 – [voice of America. November 22, 2022]

 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, how do referendums work in Scotland ?

Are they any different to the way referendums work in England,  like the side who gets the majority wins ?

   (You can also write something yourself, rather than just giving me some link)

If you are unaware that referendums for Scotland are created in Westminster you shouldn't be making the comments you do.

[Mac Mickmanus]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

If you are unaware that referendums for Scotland are created in Westminster you shouldn't be making the comments you do.

OK, how would Scotland  like referendums to he held ?

Would the majority vote win or would the minority vote win ?

[superal]

Life after Brexit , European trading and alliances offer up something of a conundrum . Why ?  It is a fact that the UK is second only to the U.S.A. in the aid to Ukraine . A country far from the UK shores but much closer to E.U. countries .  It is a fact that NATO includes all of the E.U. countries . NATO was formed to defend against Russian aggression , post 2nd world war .  Yet the E.U countries are happy to let the U.S.A. and the U.K. to spearhead the aid for Ukraine . The E.U. is almost NATO , yet appears to try and ostracise the UK when it comes to trading . There are those who ask what is the purpose of NATO and even the G7 as they are merely a front and meaningless assemblies . 

Maybe time to follow Brexit with scrapping membership of NATO and the G7 for what they are worth and back away from Ukraine . Let the E.U. defend themselves against Russian advances . Even a suggestion of this would make E.U. countries want to form closer relationships with the giving UK . Indeed , I would be happy if the UK stood alone and fend for itself because the country has the talent and acumen to succeed without the encumbrances of the E.U.  

 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, how would Scotland  like referendums to he held ?

Would the majority vote win or would the minority vote win ?

Again good question. 
 

Remind me again what happened after Scotland voted to remain in the EU. 

[RayC]

30 minutes ago, superal said:

Life after Brexit , European trading and alliances offer up something of a conundrum . Why ?  It is a fact that the UK is second only to the U.S.A. in the aid to Ukraine . A country far from the UK shores but much closer to E.U. countries . 

I had little time for Johnson as an individual or his administration, but he/ they deserved credit for their support of Ukraine. Hopefully, Sunak's government will continue in the same manner.

 

However, It is untrue that the UK is second only to the US in sending aid to Ukraine: The total sent by the EU far exceeds that sent by the UK. (France and Germany possibly send more on an individual basis, but I have not crunched the numbers)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=The United States has by,than every other country combined.

 

 

30 minutes ago, superal said:

It is a fact that NATO includes all of the E.U. countries . NATO was formed to defend against Russian aggression , post 2nd world war .  Yet the E.U countries are happy to let the U.S.A. and the U.K. to spearhead the aid for Ukraine . The E.U. is almost NATO , yet appears to try and ostracise the UK when it comes to trading . There are those who ask what is the purpose of NATO and even the G7 as they are merely a front and meaningless assemblies . 

Maybe time to follow Brexit with scrapping membership of NATO and the G7 for what they are worth and back away from Ukraine . Let the E.U. defend themselves against Russian advances . Even a suggestion of this would make E.U. countries want to form closer relationships with the giving UK . Indeed , I would be happy if the UK stood alone and fend for itself because the country has the talent and acumen to succeed without the encumbrances of the E.U.  

 

This is mostly just empty rhetoric and conjecture with no evidence to support any of the contentions. 

 

From the very little I know about NATO, it appears to me that (most of)  the EU member states should do more to support the organisation. However, where is the evidence to suggest that the UK would be any more likely to be able to defend itself than the EU if it operated as one entity, let alone that it would effectively have to beg the UK for military aid/ support as you seem to imply?

 

Another attempt to deflect attention away from the very real problems created by Brexit?

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed along with off-topic posts.  

 

[candide]

On 12/20/2022 at 9:33 AM, superal said:

Life after Brexit , European trading and alliances offer up something of a conundrum . Why ?  It is a fact that the UK is second only to the U.S.A. in the aid to Ukraine . A country far from the UK shores but much closer to E.U. countries .  It is a fact that NATO includes all of the E.U. countries . NATO was formed to defend against Russian aggression , post 2nd world war .  Yet the E.U countries are happy to let the U.S.A. and the U.K. to spearhead the aid for Ukraine . The E.U. is almost NATO , yet appears to try and ostracise the UK when it comes to trading . There are those who ask what is the purpose of NATO and even the G7 as they are merely a front and meaningless assemblies . 

Maybe time to follow Brexit with scrapping membership of NATO and the G7 for what they are worth and back away from Ukraine . Let the E.U. defend themselves against Russian advances . Even a suggestion of this would make E.U. countries want to form closer relationships with the giving UK . Indeed , I would be happy if the UK stood alone and fend for itself because the country has the talent and acumen to succeed without the encumbrances of the E.U.  

 

Defense is not a prerogative of the EU, according to the treaties signed. There may be some initiatives if asked by Member States, not more.

[save the frogs]

greece has announced it will pay its citizens 10% of their food bills as a result of inflation.

not sure if other EU nations will do sth similar. 

[Bluespunk]

Here’s another reason why

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/21/brexit-deal-not-boosted-business-uk-firms?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[superal]

On 12/20/2022 at 10:32 AM, RayC said:

I had little time for Johnson as an individual or his administration, but he/ they deserved credit for their support of Ukraine. Hopefully, Sunak's government will continue in the same manner.

 

However, It is untrue that the UK is second only to the US in sending aid to Ukraine: The total sent by the EU far exceeds that sent by the UK. (France and Germany possibly send more on an individual basis, but I have not crunched the numbers)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=The United States has by,than every other country combined.

 

 

This is mostly just empty rhetoric and conjecture with no evidence to support any of the contentions. 

 

From the very little I know about NATO, it appears to me that (most of)  the EU member states should do more to support the organisation. However, where is the evidence to suggest that the UK would be any more likely to be able to defend itself than the EU if it operated as one entity, let alone that it would effectively have to beg the UK for military aid/ support as you seem to imply?

 

Another attempt to deflect attention away from the very real problems created by Brexit?

Can I remind all that the topic is not solely about Brexit .  There is animosity from the E.U. along with a bitterness because of Brexit . Remember the diversion of the A-Z covid vaccine from Belgium intended for the UK ? The " turning of a blind eye " by the French police on rubber dinghy asylum seekers leaving their shores for the UK ? Of course Brexit has had an effect on the British economy but nowhere near the problems caused by the Russia/ Ukraine war . The Irish protocol etc . 

There will be a new trade deal with the UK and the E.U. and with the end of the Ukraine war , there will be a return to some sort of normality .

The labour shortage in the UK cannot be resolved easily by foreign labour because the rates of pay are not high enough . In fact , UK companies who have tendered for contracts and won them have only themselves to blame if sufficient labour is not available because when putting together an estimate , procurement of materials and labour are the main consideration .

Sorry to digress but the UK military are heavily involved in aiding the Ukraine in defeating Russia along with other NATO countries 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Here’s another reason why

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/21/brexit-deal-not-boosted-business-uk-firms?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

An interesting articles which stresses of the realities of business, I.e.

 

"On regulation, two-thirds of members said they would prefer to continue using the EU’s CE mark of product quality, instead of switching to the UK’s new post-Brexit equivalent, the UKCA."

[puchooay]

On 12/20/2022 at 3:23 AM, Bluespunk said:

Again good question. 
 

Remind me again what happened after Scotland voted to remain in the EU. 

Scotland didn't have a vote. They have never been members of EU.

 

The vote to leave was by the UK. They were the member state.

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Scotland didn't have a vote. They have never been members of EU.

 

The vote to leave was by the UK. They were the member state.

Scotland is a country. 
 

The country voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. 
 

They were dragged out against the will of the country. 

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Scotland is a country. 
 

The country voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. 
 

They were dragged out against the will of the country. 

 

???? But Scots are canny people. They will not do anything that effects their bottom line. I think they are mature enough not to indulge in US style idealism. 

[puchooay]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Scotland is a country. 
 

The country voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. 
 

They were dragged out against the will of the country. 

They are not an independent country. Neither are England, Wales or N.Ireland. Neither were any of the above member states of EU.

 

UK were the member state. UK voted to leave. Simple.

[Bluespunk]

23 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

???? But Scots are canny people. They will not do anything that effects their bottom line. I think they are mature enough not to indulge in US style idealism. 

A referendum on independence should answer that. 

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

A referendum on independence should answer that. 

Already done.

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, puchooay said:

UK were the member state. UK voted to leave. Simple.

The only thing that is simple are those that believe in "simple majority", it is now time to believe in reality.

 

Mr Springford, author of the study, added: “There is a gap between the things politicians want to say about Brexit and what the data tells us. I think it’s become impossible to argue that Brexit has not hurt the UK economy.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cost-uk-gdp-economy-failure-b2246610.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=IND_Morning_Headlines 21-12-2022&utm_term=IND_Headlines_Masterlist_CDP

[Bluespunk]

36 minutes ago, puchooay said:

They are not an independent country. Neither are England, Wales or N.Ireland. Neither were any of the above member states of EU.

 

UK were the member state. UK voted to leave. Simple.

They are a country with their own parliament, currency, legal system, etc. It is a part of the U.K. but an independent country within it. 
 

England voted leave in such numbers that it took a country that voted remain with them. 
 

Simple. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Already done.

Nonetheless 

[sandyf]

Just now, nauseus said:

Already done.

You would have to quote the text from the Referendum Bill that makes that a fact.

Of course you can't as Westminster didn't think it through and specify an interval.

Westminster set a precedent in the Belfast Agreement of 7 years between referendums on self determination so there is no moral argument against another taking place in Scotland.

[puchooay]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

They are an independent country with their own parliament, currency, legal system, etc. It is a part of the U.K. but an independent country within it. 

Scottish Parliament is not independent in a ruling capacity, if it is why are there SNP members in Westminster? Neither is their legal system independent nor do they have an independent currency.

 

Scotland is not an independent country. You can argue all you like. It is a fact.

[Bluespunk]

12 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Scottish Parliament is not independent in a ruling capacity, if it is why are there SNP members in Westminster? Neither is their legal system independent nor do they have an independent currency.

 

Scotland is not an independent country. You can argue all you like. It is a fact.

Fair enough, I shouldn’t have used the word independent as Scotland is still shackled to the U.K.  

 

However, I will continue to state that Scotland with its own parliament, currency, legal system, football team is a country, because it is.

 

The snp mps at Westminster are there as Scotlands representatives in the U.K. parliament. 
 

They represent their country there. 
 

Simple. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Photoguy21]

Because we have a government that is only interested in it self.

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You would have to quote the text from the Referendum Bill that makes that a fact.

Of course you can't as Westminster didn't think it through and specify an interval.

Westminster set a precedent in the Belfast Agreement of 7 years between referendums on self determination so there is no moral argument against another taking place in Scotland.

The Belfast Agreement concerns NI. Not Scotland.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Can I remind all that the topic is not solely about Brexit . 

Strange that the majority of your post is about that very topic? Nevertheless..

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

There is animosity from the E.U. along with a bitterness because of Brexit.

 

You're probably right but not for the reason stated. There was certainly frustration on the part of the EU that - having seemingly agreed a deal - May was unable to convince her own party to back it. However, as politicians themselves, EU leaders probably had some empathy for her.

 

The animosity and bitterness was fuelled by Johnson's lack of sincerity in reneging on the Agreement and his generally hostile attitude towards the EU.

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

Remember the diversion of the A-Z covid vaccine from Belgium intended for the UK ?

A case of the EU looking after their own members' interests in a time of crisis.

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

The " turning of a blind eye " by the French police on rubber dinghy asylum seekers leaving their shores for the UK ?

 

Little bit more complex than simple French inertia and incompetence.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/not-doing-enough-france-senses-policing-alone-wont-stop-risky-crossings

 

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

Of course Brexit has had an effect on the British economy but nowhere near the problems caused by the Russia/ Ukraine war .

 

The fundamental difference being that the Russia/ Ukraine war was outside of the UK government's control. The problems caused by Brexit were completely avoidable and self-inflicted.

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

The Irish protocol etc . 

 

The 'Irish Protocol' forms part of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

 

There will be a new trade deal with the UK and the E.U.

 

What makes you so sure about this? Most of the rhetoric coming out of Brussels suggests otherwise.

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

and with the end of the Ukraine war , there will be a return to some sort of normality .

 

Hopefully, that will be the case and will occur sooner rather than later.

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

The labour shortage in the UK cannot be resolved easily by foreign labour because the rates of pay are not high enough .

 

The labour shortage and the problems caused by it could at least been mitigated if freedom of movement for EU nationals still existed.

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

In fact , UK companies who have tendered for contracts and won them have only themselves to blame if sufficient labour is not available because when putting together an estimate , procurement of materials and labour are the main consideration .

 

I have the utmost sympathy for UK companies.

 

Throughout the Brexit negotiations, they had to operate in a climate of almost complete uncertainty. Subsequently, Covid and the war in Ukraine have, of course, had a great impact but UK businesses haven't been helped by the lack of a strategic vision by successive UK governments.

 

I imagine that nowadays most UK companies think very hard about tendering for new work (especially if that war has an overseas' element), and that those that do build a large amount of contingency into their bids. 

 

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

Sorry to digress but the UK military are heavily involved in aiding the Ukraine in defeating Russia along with other NATO countries 

At least we agree on one point.

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Scotland is not an independent country. You can argue all you like. It is a fact.

You are wrong, Scotland can be described as an independent country. What it is not is an independent sovereign state.

It really is the height of hypocrisy. In 2009 the Westminster government went to court in support of the Kosovo UDI claiming that every country had the right to self determination, but it would appear that does not apply to countries under Westminster rule.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The Belfast Agreement concerns NI. Not Scotland.

Since when was self determination attached to any particular country?