Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

How about looking at the stat in your post I replied to?

Oh I see, you want me to repeat what is written in the graph I posted ?

I didnt realise you were asking me to say it again , here , here's the graph again for you so see ????

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

54 minutes ago, RayC said:

Can you identify any proposals originating from Brussels, which were strongly supported by either France or Germany, but were opposed by the rest of the EU member states but  which, nevertheless, subsequently passed into law?

That is non-material uk is out of EU there's nothing to idetify anymore uk just get on with it, trade with the rest of the world.

[Kwasaki]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Mafia club? Sounds like more right wing fluff rather than any  meaningful explanation of a problem. Or perhaps an objection to a democratic commitment not entirely contained with the UK.

I knew you would say that. ????

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I knew you would say that. ????

You're going to really struggle with the international commitment needed to solve the climate crisis. ????

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Mistakes or not in my opinion a democracy decision was made that you do not except some so you not like democracy. own up. 

Yawn.

How about the odious champion of Brexit - Farage - saying that if they lose 52-48 there should be a second referendum. He changed his mind pretty quickly. Seems Brexiteers are not fond of democracy either (unless of course it goes in their favour).

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

Edited November 13, 2022 by josephbloggs

[RayC]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That is non-material uk is out of EU there's nothing to idetify anymore uk just get on with it, trade with the rest of the world.

You are the one complaining that the EU is a mafia club dominated by France and Germany.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

You are the one complaining that the EU is a mafia club dominated by France and Germany.

Hear hear.

[RayC]

36 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

So with having freedom uk people get on with it and stop moaning how many times does that have to be said.

Can you detail the contents of this new found post-Brexit freedom? Personally, I feel a lot less free.

 

Unless I receive an impossible-to-refuse job offer my working days are behind me. Just as well as the number of job opportunities within the EU member states open to Brits is significantly reduced.

 

I feel sorry for the Brits of working age who don't have the opportunities which I had.

[josephbloggs]

22 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That is non-material uk is out of EU there's nothing to idetify anymore uk just get on with it, trade with the rest of the world.

So you can't then.

The favourite refrain of Brexiteers when asked a logical question or to give a fact: "We won, get over it".  Never answering the question...

[RayC]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hear hear.

If that's 'Hear, hear' you agree with me then great. Thanks.

 

On the other hand, if you are suggesting that the EU is a mafia club dominated by France and Germany then maybe you'd like to address my challenge to Kwasaki?

 

(I suspect that the answer will be 'No' but go on prove me wrong????)

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K voted as one , it wasn't dived up into regions .

All the Votes from British citizens were counted and the results came from those .

   Like, if Scottish people voted for the SNP and they won , the UK wouldn't get an SNP Government 

Stewart Lee really summed up perfectly why you can't generalise about who voted which way as it was complex. I won't post the video here as there is some colourful language in it, but search YouTube for "Stewart Lee Brexit" and watch for yourself. He may be liberal leaning but he hits the nail on the head and I don't think either side can argue with his reasoning.

Edited November 13, 2022 by josephbloggs

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Stewart Lee really summed up perfectly why you can't generalise about who voted which way as it was complex. I won't post the video here as it has a couple of "c bombs" in it, but search YouTube for "Stewart Lee Brexit" and watch for yourself. He may be liberal leaning but he hits the nail on the head.

Yes, some Labour working class people voted to Leave to protect their jobs and some rich Conservatives voted Remain because they wanted to employ cheap labour 

[stevenl]

55 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Oh I see, you want me to repeat what is written in the graph I posted ?

I didnt realise you were asking me to say it again , here , here's the graph again for you so see ????

 

 

 

So you post a graph to prove that others are doing bad as well, when your graph clearly states the others you keep referring to are doing significantly better. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So you post a graph to prove that others are doing bad as well, when your graph clearly states the others you keep referring to are doing significantly better. 

If you add all the other E.U Countries, the UK would be about in the middle , but 

 

Germany is in decline and will be joining the UK in recession quite soon and France may escape it as their tourist industry has picked up and that is keeping them out of a recession 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Mac Mickmanus

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, RayC said:

I would say that most sensible people realised that you couldn't have the benefits of belonging to the world's biggest trading bloc without the accompanying obligations and responsibilities.

 

Always someone else's fault. The EU did what it felt necessary to protect its' members' interests.

 

Anyway, why didn't the UK government(s) plan for the worse-case scenario given that it appears to be common knowledge how badly the EU was likely to behave?

 

Where is the plan for implementing these Brexit benefits?

most sensible people realised that you couldn't have the benefits of belonging to the world's biggest trading bloc without the accompanying insanity.

 

The EU did what the cabal controlling it dictated

 

UK governments have not been very good at anything for a long while.

 

A plan? Does the government actually know what a "plan" is?

 

NB. All the above should be regarded as my opinion.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Oh I see, you want me to repeat what is written in the graph I posted ?

I didnt realise you were asking me to say it again , here , here's the graph again for you so see ????

 

 

 

It only looks bad for the UK till one realises it's only 0.6% below Germany.

[pacovl46]

On 11/12/2022 at 4:27 PM, DezLez said:

What consequences?

Really???

[pacovl46]

On 11/12/2022 at 4:28 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

It isn't Brexit that is causing the current difficulties though 

It definitely didn't help either.

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If you add all the other E.U Countries, the UK would be about in the middle , but 

 

Germany is in decline and will be joining the UK in recession quite soon and France may escape it as their tourist industry has picked up and that is keeping them out of a recession 

It isnt , the thread title doesn't mention the E.U .

 

This thread is comparing the U.K to other G 7 Countries, which include USA , Japan and Canada

 

Your words. Your argument is as inconsistent as it gets, all trying to fit your opinion.. 

[DezLez]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Really???

Not really a helpful and erudite post!

[DezLez]

45 minutes ago, stevenl said:

t isnt , the thread title doesn't mention the E.U .

 

This thread is comparing the U.K to other G 7 Countries, which include USA , Japan and Canada

The thread title doesn't mention the G7 either but the BBC link in the OP does mention both the G7 countries and Brexit/EU.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

That is non-material uk is out of EU there's nothing to idetify anymore uk just get on with it, trade with the rest of the world.

The UK was already trading with the rest of the world before Brexit.

 

Membership of the EU was never a barrier to the UK trading with the rest of the world.

 

Brexit has inserted tariffs and quotas into the UK’s largest trading market, the EU.

 

The Brexiteer cry goes up ‘Get on with it’, but there’s nothing new to ‘get on with’, the hoped for trade deal with the US is revealed as a thing of fantasy and the UK doesn’t have enough skilled workers to fill the jobs it’s receding economy needs.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It only looks bad for the UK till one realises it's only 0.6% below Germany.

You clearly don’t understand the graph.

 

The graph relates growth of each nation against its own pre-COVID growth.

 

Germany has recovered to pre-COVID levels and added .2% Growth.

 

The UK is 0.4% below pre-COVID growth.

 

The graph does not indicate a 0.6% difference between the growth of the UK and German economies. 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

For E.U citizens working in the E.U , their taxes would have been paid to the Government of the Country they were working in , even before Brexit , no change there 

No change?

So jobs transferred out of the UK to avoid the brexit red tape is not a change in UK revenue. Time to revisit the maths class.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

You will clutch at any straw, however tenuous, to try and prove how bad Brexit was.

I don't need  to prove how bad brexit has been, just ask those that have to live with the fallout.

Of course that would mean taking your head  out of the sand.

[Laphroaig27]

13 hours ago, ozimoron said:

They were entitled to proceed with brexit after the vote. I believe it remains the case that there was a huge amount of foreign influence and misinformation involved in achieving that narrow majority. Now it's buyer remorse.

I do not think the downturn is directly related.

 

There's a price for independence. Free men wish to be free.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Membership of the EU was never a barrier to the UK trading with the rest of the world.

Exactly, but a percentage of 66 million thought they could get a better deal than a trading block of half a million.

Only the delusional would think that the UK can be on the better side of any deal. Just waiting to hear about a fantastic deal with India, in exchange for visas.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

I do not think the downturn is directly related.

 

There's a price for independence. Free men wish to be free.

These two sentences are apparently contradictory. You deny there was a connection but then admit there was a price to be paid to be "free". Free from what, exactly? Free from unrestricted movement which the economy depends upon.

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, Laphroaig27 said:

There's a price for independence. Free men wish to be free.

A prerogative of the English, doesn't apply to the devolved nations.

[RayC]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

most sensible people realised that you couldn't have the benefits of belonging to the world's biggest trading bloc without the accompanying insanity.

 

The EU did what the cabal controlling it dictated

 

UK governments have not been very good at anything for a long while.

 

A plan? Does the government actually know what a "plan" is?

 

NB. All the above should be regarded as my opinion.

I agree that we haven't had a decent government in a long while. I'd also suggest that no government during my adult life has been particularly adept at long-term planning.

 

You are also, of course, correct that what is posted here or - more often than not - in the media is opinion. However, most media opinion from reputable sources is backed by evidence supporting their view. I would also suggest that 'Remainers' on this board back up their arguments with links more often than not. It's possible that the evidence is flawed, but the onus is then on those opposing the proposition to point the flaws.

 

Unfortunately, the Brexiter argument presented in this forum almost invariably amounts to no more than the use of emotive words such as 'mafia', 'corrupt', etc. When challenged to back up these assertions with evidence, nothing is usually forthcoming.

Edited November 14, 2022 by RayC
Clarity