Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ah right, of course, it is France's fault!! Nothing to do with us.

 

Link?

It's not that black & white to be fair, I repeat again the EU and France being on the border did not want UK to leave so if you think they ain't gonna be an awkward cuss as long as possible and forever it takes you are dreaming. 

 

Taking millions of pounds from UK to help with there shoreline control of immigrants is one example if you ask me.  

[superal]

11 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K have had some disagreements with Ireland/Eire about Northern Ireland in the past and as a solution to the trouble , a soft border was made between the two Countries , like an open border .

   Now that the U.K have left the E.U , the E.U require there to be a hard border between the two , which interferes with the UK/Eire open border agreement  .

 

There is growing popularity in Northern Ireland to unify with the Republic of Ireland  . Indeed N. Ireland voted to remain in the E.U.     N. Ireland integration with the republic and become an independent country and a member of the E.U.  would solve the Irish protocol to everyone's satisfaction .

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, superal said:

There is growing popularity in Northern Ireland to unify with the Republic of Ireland  . Indeed N. Ireland voted to remain in the E.U.     N. Ireland integration with the republic and become an independent country and a member of the E.U.  would solve the Irish protocol to everyone's satisfaction .

Well apart from the Republic aren't too keen on getting the six Counties back and unification  , now that some in the North want unification, the South are backing off from the suggestion .

   Links have been previously posted showing that

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well apart from the Republic aren't too keen on getting the six Counties back and unification  , now that some in the North want unification, the South are backing off from the suggestion .

   Links have been previously posted showing that

That is untrue if you are referring to your post quoting Bertie Ahern
 

That quoted one man suggesting that unification needs to be handled properly.
 

The largest parties in both governing bodies on both sides of the border support unification. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Bluespunk
Typo

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, superal said:

There is growing popularity in Northern Ireland to unify with the Republic of Ireland  . Indeed N. Ireland voted to remain in the E.U.     N. Ireland integration with the republic and become an independent country and a member of the E.U.  would solve the Irish protocol to everyone's satisfaction .

I think there might be a couple of hundred thousand loyalists who would vehemently disagree with you.

[johnnybangkok]

23 hours ago, superal said:

For a start the UK will no longer be flooded with foreigners , many of whom were criminals and claiming benefits for their families who were not even in the UK  but in their homelands e.g. Poland . A new law announced yesterday states that any illegal entry into that UK without a visa will result in the person being returned to their home land or sent to processing centres away from the UK  . 

Sorry to say but remainers appear to be brainwashed by the E.C. laws and have no vision of life outside of the E.C. which will improve in time .

As has been said many, many times before (or is it just wilful ignorance from all Brexiters?), the UK ALWAYS had control of it's borders but, yet again, you conflate two very seperate issues.

 

I'm going to ignore your 'criminals and claiming benefits for their families' nonsense as the usual right wing fear-mongering cr@p that was fed to you all by the leave campaign and focus on the fact that EU workers in the UK added far more to the economy than they ever took out - EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive   https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0. They couldn't all have been 'criminals and claiming benefits for their families'. 

 

And the new law you are talking about isn't aimed at EU nationals but illegal immigrants who make the perilous channel crossing and the likes (mostly from Albania, Iran/Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc). As has been said sooooooooooo many times, none of us are condoning illegal immigrants and any way of clearing up that mess is welcome but the bigger problem isn't the actual numbers but the huge back-log that the current government can't seem to get sorted which in turn is adding significent amounts to the cost. 

 

But I do find it interesting though that when asked for all these new laws that you believed would 're-birth' the UK and all you can come up is one that isn't a new law after all, as the UK had the ability to control it's borders even whilst still a part of the EU. I'd ask for some more but I know you won't be able to come up with any because it never was about regaining an imaginary lost sovereinty but it was all about immigration which in turn was fuelled by xenophobia and in some cases, downright racism.   

 

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

As has been said many, many times before (or is it just wilful ignorance from all Brexiters?), the UK ALWAYS had control of it's borders but, yet again, you conflate two very seperate issues.

 

I'm going to ignore your 'criminals and claiming benefits for their families' nonsense as the usual right wing fear-mongering cr@p that was fed to you all by the leave campaign and focus on the fact that EU workers in the UK added far more to the economy than they ever took out - EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive   https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0. They couldn't all have been 'criminals and claiming benefits for their families'. 

 

And the new law you are talking about isn't aimed at EU nationals but illegal immigrants who make the perilous channel crossing and the likes (mostly from Albania, Iran/Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc). As has been said sooooooooooo many times, none of us are condoning illegal immigrants and any way of clearing up that mess is welcome but the bigger problem isn't the actual numbers but the huge back-log that the current government can't seem to get sorted which in turn is adding significent amounts to the cost. 

 

But I do find it interesting though that when asked for all these new laws that you believed would 're-birth' the UK and all you can come up is one that isn't a new law after all, as the UK had the ability to control it's borders even whilst still a part of the EU. I'd ask for some more but I know you won't be able to come up with any because it never was about regaining an imaginary lost sovereignty but it was all about immigration which in turn was fuelled by xenophobia and in some cases, downright racism.   

 

 

Please don't label all Brixiteers the same.

 

I voted to leave the EU in the full knowledge that successive UK governments had failed to implement it's own immigration policies - illegal immigrants were a separate factor and governments failed to get to grips with the problem.

 

I was also aware of the value of European labour (commonwealth and Asian labour prior to that. Whilst many UK workers will be pleased to see the back of 'cheap' imported workers but that creates an inevitable void. 

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I think there might be a couple of hundred thousand loyalists who would vehemently disagree with you.

Isn't that where democracy come in. ????

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Isn't that where democracy come in. ????

Not really, as it is the loyalists who are gaming the system and preventing Stormont from governing. 

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Not really, as it is the loyalists who are gaming the system and preventing Stormont from governing. 

Loyal to religion more than likely.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Loyal to religion more than likely.

Anti democratic in reality. 

[johnnybangkok]

9 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

Please don't label all Brixiteers the same.

 

I voted to leave the EU in the full knowledge that successive UK governments had failed to implement it's own immigration policies - illegal immigrants were a separate factor and governments failed to get to grips with the problem.

 

I was also aware of the value of European labour (commonwealth and Asian labour prior to that. Whilst many UK workers will be pleased to see the back of 'cheap' imported workers but that creates an inevitable void. 

And in this sense would you say that Brexit was a success then? You voted Brexit because of immigration concerns but apart from stopping a few Polish bricklayers, the immigration problem seems to be even worse now. Could it be (and here's a wild idea), the leave campaign preyed on your insecurities and distrust of 'johnny foreigner', in the full knowledge the immigration problem could never be completely solved but the emotions it brings out in people (especially fear) is a great way to get people to the voting booth?

 

You were all sold a turkey but none of you will admit to it. Economically it's been terrible. It's also created a huge problem with N. Ireland, and hasn't done a single thing as far as illegal immigration is concerned. The UK makes it's own laws (as it always did) so no benefit there and our standing on the world stage has taken a very big hit. Any buyers remorse yet?     

[superal]

21 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

As has been said many, many times before (or is it just wilful ignorance from all Brexiters?), the UK ALWAYS had control of it's borders but, yet again, you conflate two very seperate issues.

 

I'm going to ignore your 'criminals and claiming benefits for their families' nonsense as the usual right wing fear-mongering cr@p that was fed to you all by the leave campaign and focus on the fact that EU workers in the UK added far more to the economy than they ever took out - EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive   https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0. They couldn't all have been 'criminals and claiming benefits for their families'. 

 

And the new law you are talking about isn't aimed at EU nationals but illegal immigrants who make the perilous channel crossing and the likes (mostly from Albania, Iran/Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc). As has been said sooooooooooo many times, none of us are condoning illegal immigrants and any way of clearing up that mess is welcome but the bigger problem isn't the actual numbers but the huge back-log that the current government can't seem to get sorted which in turn is adding significent amounts to the cost. 

 

But I do find it interesting though that when asked for all these new laws that you believed would 're-birth' the UK and all you can come up is one that isn't a new law after all, as the UK had the ability to control it's borders even whilst still a part of the EU. I'd ask for some more but I know you won't be able to come up with any because it never was about regaining an imaginary lost sovereinty but it was all about immigration which in turn was fuelled by xenophobia and in some cases, downright racism.   

 

Control of borders whilst a E.U. member ? almost impossible with free movement of labour . 

Xenophobia ? In the context of taking care of your own nationals first and being resentful of foreigners who were raping the UK benefit system , greedy employers who were happy to employ foreign labour at much reduced rates and taking the UK working mans livelihood , that is not xenophobia or racism . It is about retaining your occupation in order to survive , put food on the table and pay the mortgage . 

The UK has many dodgy asylum seekers who bypassed other European countries to get to the UK in order for an easy life living off social benefits . No intentions to integrate but stick together living their own customs . The UK has too many do gooders who need to wake up and smell the coffee . Regarding the abandonment of the E.U. laws , please read the link below 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-retained-eu-law-revocation-and-reform-bill-2022#:~:text=The time is now right,and replace retained EU Law.

[placeholder]

Just now, superal said:

Control of borders whilst a E.U. member ? almost impossible with free movement of labour . 

Xenophobia ? In the context of taking care of your own nationals first and being resentful of foreigners who were raping the UK benefit system , greedy employers who were happy to employ foreign labour at much reduced rates and taking the UK working mans livelihood , that is not xenophobia or racism . It is about retaining your occupation in order to survive , put food on the table and pay the mortgage . 

The UK has many dodgy asylum seekers who bypassed other European countries to get to the UK in order for an easy life living off social benefits . No intentions to integrate but stick together living their own customs . The UK has too many do gooders who need to wake up and smell the coffee . Regarding the abandonment of the E.U. laws , please read the link below 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-retained-eu-law-revocation-and-reform-bill-2022#:~:text=The time is now right,and replace retained EU Law.

Brexit: Don't scrap EU rules, firms and unions say

Business groups and unions are urging the government not to go ahead with plans to ditch a wide range of EU laws, warning the move could cause "confusion and disruption" in the UK.

In a joint letter, groups including the Institute of Directors and the Trades Union Congress called on ministers to withdraw its Retained EU Law bill.

They warned the bill would put vital protections at risk.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63741465

[Kwasaki]

24 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

And in this sense would you say that Brexit was a success then? You voted Brexit because of immigration concerns but apart from stopping a few Polish bricklayers, the immigration problem seems to be even worse now. Could it be (and here's a wild idea), the leave campaign preyed on your insecurities and distrust of 'johnny foreigner', in the full knowledge the immigration problem could never be completely solved but the emotions it brings out in people (especially fear) is a great way to get people to the voting booth?

 

You were all sold a turkey but none of you will admit to it. Economically it's been terrible. It's also created a huge problem with N. Ireland, and hasn't done a single thing as far as illegal immigration is concerned. The UK makes it's own laws (as it always did) so no benefit there and our standing on the world stage has taken a very big hit. Any buyers remorse yet?     

Independent is better.

[superal]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Brexit: Don't scrap EU rules, firms and unions say

Business groups and unions are urging the government not to go ahead with plans to ditch a wide range of EU laws, warning the move could cause "confusion and disruption" in the UK.

In a joint letter, groups including the Institute of Directors and the Trades Union Congress called on ministers to withdraw its Retained EU Law bill.

They warned the bill would put vital protections at risk.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63741465

There is a conflict of interests from businesses and union heads both of whom would benefit from the free movement of labour . Businesses from cheap labour and unions from union membership fees . There will be no going back on Brexit and no copying the Swiss arrangements . Extract below from UK government spokesman ,

 

Asked if Brexit had damaged UK trade, Home Office Minister Robert Jenrick told the BBC it was hard to separate the disruption caused by leaving the EU, the coronavirus pandemic and the war in Ukraine.

"There will be challenges and disruption as a result of fundamentally altering our relationship with the EU," he said but added that it was too soon to say whether or not that is going to be to the UK's long-term economic disadvantage.

He said the government was determined to take advantage of the opportunities provided by Brexit, pointing to plans for the regulatory regime of the financial services, life sciences and the green economy.

He also insisted the government did not want to make any fundamental changes to the UK's relationship with the EU, arguing that the country had settled on the right approach.

The message was reiterated by No 10 who said Mr Sunak was "categorical" the deal would not be fundamentally changed.

Specifically the Downing Street spokesperson said there would be no reintroduction of freedom of movement, no "unnecessary" payments to the EU and "nothing that limits the UK's freedom to do trade deals".

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

And in this sense would you say that Brexit was a success then? You voted Brexit because of immigration concerns but apart from stopping a few Polish bricklayers, the immigration problem seems to be even worse now. Could it be (and here's a wild idea), the leave campaign preyed on your insecurities and distrust of 'johnny foreigner', in the full knowledge the immigration problem could never be completely solved but the emotions it brings out in people (especially fear) is a great way to get people to the voting booth?

 

You were all sold a turkey but none of you will admit to it. Economically it's been terrible. It's also created a huge problem with N. Ireland, and hasn't done a single thing as far as illegal immigration is concerned. The UK makes it's own laws (as it always did) so no benefit there and our standing on the world stage has taken a very big hit. Any buyers remorse yet?     

 

No, you didn't comprehend my post.

 

I said Immigration was not a factor in my Brexit considerations.........governments were already mismanaging that. 

 

You are making the typical Remainer mistake of trying to think for others - please don't do it for me.

 

I love Europe/Europeans, I detest the EU. I voted to leave, we won, we left. There was always a price to pay for leaving the 'club', the only disappointment is the Schadenfreude of the losing side in milking every negative opportunity.

 

 

[placeholder]

56 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

No, you didn't comprehend my post.

 

I said Immigration was not a factor in my Brexit considerations.........governments were already mismanaging that. 

 

You are making the typical Remainer mistake of trying to think for others - please don't do it for me.

 

I love Europe/Europeans, I detest the EU. I voted to leave, we won, we left. There was always a price to pay for leaving the 'club', the only disappointment is the Schadenfreude of the losing side in milking every negative opportunity.

 

 

And so many negative opportunities makes for so much schadenfreude. 

[hotandsticky]

49 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And so many negative opportunities makes for so much schadenfreude. 

 

I rest my case.....

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

I rest my case.....

May it rest in peace.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

And in this sense would you say that Brexit was a success then? You voted Brexit because of immigration concerns but apart from stopping a few Polish bricklayers, the immigration problem seems to be even worse now. 

So , there's even more immigration now and there's also a shortage of Eastern European workers ?

   It cannot be both , it  needs to be either one or the other .

Has Brexit stopped E.U immigrants or not ?

  If there's more immigrants now, then there wouldn't be  shortage of workers .

   There has been an increase in asylum seekers , but now measures have been taken to send them straight back home again 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So , there's even more immigration now and there's also a shortage of Eastern European workers ?

   It cannot be both , it  needs to be either one or the other .

Has Brexit stopped E.U immigrants or not ?

  If there's more immigrants now, then there wouldn't be  shortage of workers .

   There has been an increase in asylum seekers , but now measures have been taken to send them straight back home again 

 

The UK Government has lost control of the UK’s borders:

 

 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63730054

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well apart from the Republic aren't too keen on getting the six Counties back and unification  , now that some in the North want unification, the South are backing off from the suggestion .

   Links have been previously posted showing that

Indeed, Eire would be inheriting a lot of non Catholics that would "strongly object" to being subject to Southern Ireland rule.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 There has been an increase in asylum seekers , but now measures have been taken to send them straight back home again 

Been a long time coming but welcome news.

Seems Brexit has benefits after all.

Edited December 16, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Isn't that where democracy come in. ????

LOL. Were the troubles democratic?

Why would Eire want them, but from the opposite side?

Not everyone has forgotten those days.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, Eire would be inheriting a lot of non Catholics that would "strongly object" to being subject to Southern Ireland rule.

Would they have their U.K citizenship removed from them and  have have Irish citizenship enforced upon them and would then then legally be allowed to live anywhere in Ireland , Northern Irish leaving their location and moving all over Ireland and British people (with Irish ancestry) being able to get Isiah citizenship) and then you have have the Loyalists potentially reforming their groups and waging war against the Irish Government .

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Would they have their U.K citizenship removed from them and  have have Irish citizenship enforced upon them and would then then legally be allowed to live anywhere in Ireland , Northern Irish leaving their location and moving all over Ireland and British people (with Irish ancestry) being able to get Isiah citizenship) and then you have have the Loyalists potentially reforming their groups and waging war against the Irish Government .

Alternatively they could go back to their ancestral home in Glasgow.

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Were the troubles democratic?

Why would Eire want them, but from the opposite side?

Not everyone has forgotten those days.

They have their own bible. 

[Kwasaki]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK Government has lost control of the UK’s borders:

 

 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63730054

So has many other countries lost control of borders on the amount of people leaving their country for one reason or another. 

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, Eire would be inheriting a lot of non Catholics that would "strongly object" to being subject to Southern Ireland rule.

Set them up in England along with everyone else.