1 minute ago, puchooay said:

Still can't see your point proved.

From the parliamentary Committee report I have linked;

 

 

One of the great promises of Brexit was freeing British businesses to give them the headroom to maximise their productivity and contribution to the economy – even more desperately needed now on the long road to recovery from the pandemic.

Yet the only detectable impact so far is increased costs, paperwork and border delays.”

 

Wriggle away.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I have stated the delays caused by Brexit are knowable.

Had you stated that, I would have agreed. However, that is not what you stated.

3 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Had you stated that, I would have agreed. However, that is not what you stated.

Righty-o

 

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No it wasn’t.

 

The delays and increased paperwork due to Brexit are knowable by businesses subjected to those delays and increased paperwork.

 

The war in Russia is not increasing paperwork and delays in shipping to the UK’s largest foreign market, the EU 

 

COVID (already slipping into history) is not increasing paperwork and delays in shipping to the UK’s largest foreign market, the EU 

 

wriggle away

 

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

* Suspicions  link , will not open , requires a download  *

(Deleted as I don't want to repost it again) 

It's unimportant. I was being facetious.

1 minute ago, RayC said:

It's unimportant. I was being facetious.

Is that because you couldn't find any reports of UK supermarkets being empty over Christmas ?

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Yes but whatever you do, don’t troll. 

Keep that up and I'm sure your desire will be fulfilled. 

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Keep that up and I'm sure your desire will be fulfilled. 

Yeah, right…managed to find any facts or evidence to back up your earlier claims on milk deliveries yet?

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Is that because you couldn't find any reports of UK supermarkets being empty over Christmas ?

What a ridiculous qualification.

 

A supermarket would only need one customer to not be ‘completely empty’.

 

But do not despair.

 

UK Gov and the trade associations publish trading data.

 

We can rely on that rather than ridiculously qualified questions or equally ridiculous claims of ‘own observations’.

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I agree there was more than economics, it's called racism.

Ah the R word again - slyly inserted to try to win the debate by silencing the other side, no doubt. How sad, boring and wrong. 

25 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I agree there was more than economics, it's called racism.

Yeah, like having trade deals with Asian and African  Countries rather than European Countries would be for reasons of race???? !!!!!!!!

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yeah, like having trade deals with Asian and African  Countries rather than European Countries would be for reasons of race???? !!!!!!!!

I suspect the financial magnitude of the actual trade is more of a factor.

 

30 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I agree there was more than economics, it's called racism.

OK, Steve , I am happy and willing to listen to  your reasoning and explanation backing up you claims .

   Do explain how Priti Patel was racist in her support for Brexit ? Taking into consideration her Indian heritage ?

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, Steve , I am happy and willing to listen to  your reasoning and explanation backing up you claims .

   Do explain how Priti Patel was racist in her support for Brexit ? Taking into consideration her Indian heritage ?

 

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously claiming someone cannot be racist based on having Indian heritage?

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Are you seriously claiming someone cannot be racist based on having Indian heritage?

I believe they are…

23 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Is that because you couldn't find any reports of UK supermarkets being empty over Christmas ?

Oh for Pete's sake. I have no idea if all UK supermarkets were full over Christmas ????

 

On second thoughts, I give in ????️ Have it your way. Every supermarket in the UK was full over the Christmas period. Your experience is all the necessary and sufficient proof needed for any proposition.

 

If you tell me that you saw a fairy and a leprechaun arguing at the bottom of your garden about who gets first ride on the unicorn then I'm a believer.

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, Steve , I am happy and willing to listen to  your reasoning and explanation backing up you claims .

   Do explain how Priti Patel was racist in her support for Brexit ? Taking into consideration her Indian heritage ?

Oh my God, this is the worst straw clutch you have had so far. It's like "I can't be racist, I have a black friend".

Priti Patel is an awful, poisonous woman. Just because she is of Indian heritage she should be excused?

40 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Ad Fontes Media rates The Guardian in the Skews Left category of bias and as Reliable, Analysis/Fact Reporting in terms of reliability.

Did you miss the part about Reliable, Analysis/Fact Reporting in terms of reliability?

Guardian

Reliability: 43.42

Bias: -8.39

Fox News

Reliability: 35.65

Bias: 13.50

https://adfontesmedia.com/fox-news-bias-and-reliability/

Fox is less reliable and more biased.

I did say that the Guardian were similarly biased like Fox news is biased , I didn't say their biasedness figures were exactly the same and BTW , Guardian have a -8.3 figure doesn't denote they are unbiased , its just that those biased towards the Left were given a minus figure and those biased to the Right were given a plus figure .

   So Fox news is biased 13.5 

  Th Guardian is biased 8.39

The preceding  - + symbols  just show which side of their biasedness in on 

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Oh my God, this is the worst straw clutch you have had so far. It's like "I can't be racist, I have a black friend".

Priti Patel is an awful, poisonous woman. Just because she is of Indian heritage she should be excused?

I am asking you to explain the connection between racism and Priti Patels views on Brexit , rather than your views on Priti Patel .

  If the reason for people voting Brexit was racism, why did Priti Patel support Brexit ?

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Oh look, it wasn't just MY supermarket which was busy , the whole of Wales supermarkets were busy as well 

 

Massive queues in supermarkets around Wales as shoppers pick up last minute items for Christmas Day

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/massive-queues-supermarkets-around-wales-25823876

 

It is Christmas Eve, of course they are busy. The article even mentions people picking up last minute items.

I said it before, not EVERYONE in the UK is poor, there are plenty of people who can afford Christmas. But there are thousands / millions more that can't. How you continually gloss over this is amazing.  Well, it's not, as your pattern is constant deflection.   You see people in a supermarket = no poverty in the UK. You see houses with no lights and you assume people are sitting in the dark to conserve energy.

RayC and others give eloquent responses and links, you just deflect, give worthless anecdotes and don't respond to any direct questions.

I am sticking with Stewart Lee for Brexit, he has it spot on. (Google "Stewart Lee Brexit" to see it). In all these pages you have done nothing to convince me otherwise.

 

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I did say that the Guardian were similarly biased like Fox news is biased , I didn't say their biasedness figures were exactly the same and BTW , Guardian have a -8.3 figure doesn't denote they are unbiased , its just that those biased towards the Left were given a minus figure and those biased to the Right were given a plus figure .

   So Fox news is biased 13.5 

  Th Guardian is biased 8.39

The preceding  - + symbols  just show which side of their biasedness in on 

But the bias isn't the important thing. On the basis of fact reporting and analysis, they were judged to be reliable. So when someone claims the guardian is lying about the facts, it's pretty like that they are right wing cranks.

6 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

RayC and others give eloquent responses and links, you just deflect, give worthless anecdotes and don't respond to any direct questions.


 

That's not true , you can personally ask me any direct question and I will respond .

   Fire away and ask and I will respond

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That's not true , you can personally ask me any direct question and I will respond .

   Fire away and ask and I will respond

With more worthless anecdotes?

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But the bias isn't the important thing. On the basis of fact reporting and analysis, they were judged to be reliable. So when someone claims the guardian is lying about the facts, it's pretty like that they are right wing cranks.

You have moved the goal posts , the question was whether the Guardian are biased or not and were not talking about whether the Guardian tells lies or not .

   You link shows that the Guardian are biased towards the Left 

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

  If the reason for people voting Brexit was racism, why did Priti Patel support Brexit ?

Political gain. Nothing more, nothing less. Just like BJ who was an ardent supporter of the EU until he had a shot at leadership when he dropped his principals like a brick.

And let's not forget Patel played the immigrant card but supports racist policies that would have prevented her parents from emigrating to the UK had they been in force at that time. (In hindsight that might not have been a bad thing).

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That's not true , you can personally ask me any direct question and I will respond .

   Fire away and ask and I will respond

It’s not so much you don’t respond, rather, as pointed out, your responses are anecdotes based on alleged observations. 

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That's not true , you can personally ask me any direct question and I will respond .

   Fire away and ask and I will respond

I have, several times, and you come back with deflections and anecdotes about your supermarket. But since you asked:

 

1. Has poverty increased since Brexit?

2. Has food bank dependency increased 14% since pre-Covid (and pre-Ukraine war - the other get out) or not?

3. Have UK exports decreased since Brexit? How many exporters have gone out of business?

4. Has the removal of freedom of movement negatively impacted our children and younger generations?
5. Has there been one single positive of Brexit? Please name it and explain it. In real terms. Not just "in  the future it will be better" as this is nothing more than promising fabled "sunlit uplands". Give a concrete example of how we are better off. Not "removing EU tyranny", not "freeing ourselves of the shackles of faceless bureaucrats"; give a real, factual benefit of how anything has improved without using rhetoric.

6. Did the leave campaign lie and mislead the public? We can start with the bus in your earlier picture. 

Don't want to flood you with questions so we can start with those. I look forward to your promised responses.

9 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Political gain. Nothing more, nothing less. Just like BJ who was an ardent supporter of the EU until he had a shot at leadership when he dropped his principals like a brick.

 

Completely untrue , Boris Johnson was a Brexit supporter long before he became P.M , he was a prominent supporter of the Brexit campaign in 2016 and became PM in 2019 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Ah the R word again - slyly inserted to try to win the debate by silencing the other side, no doubt. How sad, boring and wrong. 

I wish I was wrong. And agree, it is sad.

No need to win any debate, just adding something to an incomplete post.

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Completely untrue , Boris Johnson was a Brexit supporter long before he became P.M , he was a prominent supporter of the Brexit campaign in 2016 and became PM in 2019 

Ok, so he dropped his principals like a brick a bit earlier.  That's your best comeback?

57 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, Steve , I am happy and willing to listen to  your reasoning and explanation backing up you claims .

   Do explain how Priti Patel was racist in her support for Brexit ? Taking into consideration her Indian heritage ?

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe she is a racist, maybe not, I never made that claim. The claim I made is that racism also played a role in the Brexit vote.