Democrat Katie Hobbs defeats MAGA favorite Kari Lake in high-stakes race for governor in Arizona

[Hanaguma]

50 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No, the Democrats were correct in warning that big lie supporters were a threat to democracy.

Yet they still supported them against more moderate candidates? What nonsense is that... At best it is craven political calculus. At worse it puts the entire "threat to democracy" argument to rest for good. 

[Hanaguma]

32 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Bingo. Stir the pot so that morons get elected in the Republican primaries, then in the general election, independents and normal Republicans would be enticed by the Democratic candidate. What a great Democratic tactic -- and it worked. Probably little risk, when you realize MAGA doesn't represent the average American, nor even the average Republican -- at least in the privacy of the voting booth.

 

Some, like hanaguma, just don't get it. That the Democratic Party tacticians realized most voters can think outside the cult-following box, was a winner. Yeah, doesn't quite pass the sniff test. Neither did Tammany Hall. But, if the end justifies the means, go for it.

It was a cynical and very "Washington" move.  Perhaps tactically it worked, but then you can't turn around and claim that the threat to democracy was real. It is playing with fire.  What if some of them actually won their elections, and many came close? What then?  

 

It is OK to "stir the pot" with some issues and gainsay your opponents, but not this one.  Can't have it both ways.  Either they are a threat to democracy or they aren't. And if you TRULY believed that they were, you would not take even a 1% chance that they could be elected and spread their message.   So much for the Democrats insisting that they hold the moral high ground.

[Phoenix Rising]

16 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Trump uses his mathematical prowess to calculate that he can't be president again unless he runs.

Person, woman, man, camera, TV!

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Arizona is a red state and the incumbent previous governor was a Republican. Should be a cakewalk by Republican. Lake aka Trump f…. It up. 

Trump/Lake are a recipe for fupped duck.

[Bluespunk]

37 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Yet they still supported them against more moderate candidates? What nonsense is that... At best it is craven political calculus. At worse it puts the entire "threat to democracy" argument to rest for good. 

The republicans chose who they chose. The fact they were loons is on them not the Democrats. 

[placeholder]

36 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It was a cynical and very "Washington" move.  Perhaps tactically it worked, but then you can't turn around and claim that the threat to democracy was real. It is playing with fire.  What if some of them actually won their elections, and many came close? What then?  

 

It is OK to "stir the pot" with some issues and gainsay your opponents, but not this one.  Can't have it both ways.  Either they are a threat to democracy or they aren't. And if you TRULY believed that they were, you would not take even a 1% chance that they could be elected and spread their message.   So much for the Democrats insisting that they hold the moral high ground.

As pointed out, in most cases their oppononets were just as much a threat to democracy maybe even more because they were more careful with their words but just as bad in their positions. There are virtually no moderates left in the Republican party except on a bell curve basis. 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

It was a cynical and very "Washington" move.  Perhaps tactically it worked, but then you can't turn around and claim that the threat to democracy was real. It is playing with fire.  What if some of them actually won their elections, and many came close? What then?  

 

It is OK to "stir the pot" with some issues and gainsay your opponents, but not this one.  Can't have it both ways.  Either they are a threat to democracy or they aren't. And if you TRULY believed that they were, you would not take even a 1% chance that they could be elected and spread their message.   So much for the Democrats insisting that they hold the moral high ground.

It's called tactics. What should one do when one's political opponents are a party of liars and cheaters, who are ready to do anything in order to get power? Just bend over and say "go on"?

 

On top of it, in term of risks, risking having a few extreme people elected is a lower concern than the risk of having a red wave, from a party in which a large majority of politicians is either supporting or condoning threats to Democracy,

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Good economy, low inflation, low unemployment, Middle East peace, prison sentencing reform, low gas prices...

With the exception of prison reform, he inherited all that from Obama.

 

You neglected to mention undermining NATO, undermining east Asia allies, undermining his own intelligence community, undermining his own CDC, buddying up to Putin, revealing highly classified information to Russia...

[Mavideol]

Just now, heybruce said:

With the exception of prison reform, he inherited all that from Obama.

 

You neglected to mention undermining NATO, undermining east Asia allies, undermining his own intelligence community, undermining his own CDC, buddying up to Putin, revealing highly classified information to Russia...

you missed the kissing axx of Kim Jong Un  555

[Elkski]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

It was a cynical and very "Washington" move.  Perhaps tactically it worked, but then you can't turn around and claim that the threat to democracy was real. It is playing with fire.  What if some of them actually won their elections, and many came close? What then?  

 

It is OK to "stir the pot" with some issues and gainsay your opponents, but not this one.  Can't have it both ways.  Either they are a threat to democracy or they aren't. And if you TRULY believed that they were, you would not take even a 1% chance that they could be elected and spread their message.   So much for the Democrats insisting that they hold the moral high ground.

I am registered republican just so I may influence the primaries.  Haven't you and hanagama played chess as youngsters?  

Basically it is easier for me to just say I think opposite of you and hanagama.  

[Eric Loh]

7 hours ago, Berkshire said:

I've been waiting on this one.  Not that it impacts my life at all, but because I can't stand that woman.  A total nutbag who lies constantly.  Kari Lake's 15 minutes of fame is over....thank God.

Lake is done and I am hoping for the other obnoxious nutbag in the Colorado 3rd district election to meet the same fact. Will proper know by tomorrow when the ballots come in from the military and overseas voters, Actually I rate Boebert as the bigger un-intelligent nutbag. 

[Elkski]

I have serious pothead buddy who spouts off like hamagama.  Is there a chance you've puffed to much?

[rattlesnake]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This is a big deal.

Lake was very dangerous. 

Election deniers are getting defeated.

Hope remains to defend democracy against the dark forces of Trumpist authoritarianism.

 

This comment is not going to age well.

[brewsterbudgen]

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

This comment is not going to age well.

You think?  Surely Trumpism is well and truly defeated.

[Jingthing]

Here she goes!

 

 

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

I have serious pothead buddy who spouts off like hamagama.  Is there a chance you've puffed to much?

The devil's lettuce? Never touched the stuff. Makes me sick to my stomach just smelling it.  Rather have a nice cold beer.  

 

Your buddy sounds like a nice guy though. Tell him to get an account here!

[ozimoron]

When she wonders how she lost the race, look at it -- this is the third election cycle in which Arizonans rejected Trumpism. In the final week of her campaign, who did she campaign alongside? She campaigned alongside Steve Bannon, she campaigned alongside one of the chief promoters of 'Pizzagate,' she campaigned alongside an individual who promoted the notion of a war on white people, she campaigned alongside state Sen. Wendy Rogers, who just earlier this year was here in Florida speaking at a white nationalist conference, somebody who frequently spews antisemitism."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/kari-lake-arizona-2658649454/

[Credo]

8 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

It was a cynical and very "Washington" move.  Perhaps tactically it worked, but then you can't turn around and claim that the threat to democracy was real. It is playing with fire.  What if some of them actually won their elections, and many came close? What then?  

 

It is OK to "stir the pot" with some issues and gainsay your opponents, but not this one.  Can't have it both ways.  Either they are a threat to democracy or they aren't. And if you TRULY believed that they were, you would not take even a 1% chance that they could be elected and spread their message.   So much for the Democrats insisting that they hold the moral high ground.

And yet it was only Republicans who voted in the Republican primary.   

 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

When she wonders how she lost the race, look at it -- this is the third election cycle in which Arizonans rejected Trumpism. In the final week of her campaign, who did she campaign alongside? She campaigned alongside Steve Bannon, she campaigned alongside one of the chief promoters of 'Pizzagate,' she campaigned alongside an individual who promoted the notion of a war on white people, she campaigned alongside state Sen. Wendy Rogers, who just earlier this year was here in Florida speaking at a white nationalist conference, somebody who frequently spews antisemitism."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/kari-lake-arizona-2658649454/

Your post makes it scary that she almost won.  Trump's party includes people with absurd beliefs and questionable stability.  It's safe to assume many of them have guns.  And, among their absurd beliefs, is that loyalty to Trump is patriotic.  I advise against lowering our guard against Trumpism.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Agreed. Trump strikes me as the 100% counterpart to Jimmy Carter. Carter was a failure as a president, but has had a great life as a former president. Trump is the opposite. A good presidency followed up by a disastrous post-presidential time. 

Simple explanation. Carter wasn't a threat  to the establishment after he left the presidency.

IMO Trump was and more importantly is feared by the establishment, both Dems and GOP, so must IMO be destroyed as a warning to any others that seek to follow in his attempt to reform Washington.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

You think?  Surely Trumpism is well and truly defeated.

Not yet. If it were, IMO they wouldn't be trying so hard to destroy him.

[bendejo]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

I advise against lowering our guard against Trumpism.

Tea Party morphed into Trumpsim, which will morph into this:

Meet the ‘Black Robe Regiment’ of Extremist Pastors Spreading Christian Nationalism

 

Quote

The movement, imbued with support from far-right political activists like Michael Flynn, wants pastors to play a central role in not only preaching politics from the pulpit but also actively getting their congregations to rise up and claim election fraud by weaving myths about the American Revolution together with modern-day conspiracy theories and hard-line Christianity. These pastors believe they’re saving democracy, though what they’re really doing is encouraging supporters to undermine the democratic process.

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Your post makes it scary that she almost won.  Trump's party includes people with absurd beliefs and questionable stability.  It's safe to assume many of them have guns.  And, among their absurd beliefs, is that loyalty to Trump is patriotic.  I advise against lowering our guard against Trumpism.

Absolutely. Especially when the leading republican alternative to Trump is a Trumpist as well, and arguably more dangerous as he appears more competent and more grounded in reality. Trump was an entertaining clown. DeSantis is potentially the enforcer. His moves to scapegoat LGBT people, demonize any mention of them to children as a pedo thing, closely mirrors how Putin got started with that issue. Fascist demagogues always need scapegoats.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Jingthing

[bendejo]

She might be going for "homicidal ex-wife" motif. 

A daytime TV personality turned soap opera character.

Maybe she'll be Hollywood bound.

 

 

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

Tea Party morphed into Trumpsim, which will morph into this:

Meet the ‘Black Robe Regiment’ of Extremist Pastors Spreading Christian Nationalism

Pretty scary, especially combined with an overly-Christian Supreme Court more concerned with interpreting their version of god, rather than interpreting the Constitution.

 

Guess it's time to re-read Bertrand Russell's excellent essay: 'Why I am not a Christian.'

[EVENKEEL]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

only among non fact checkers.

I was referring to the fact that Trump's name is what keeps liberals going. They thrive on it, 

 

Not sure what you're trying to say?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

I was referring to the fact that Trump's name is what keeps liberals going. They thrive on it, 

 

Not sure what you're trying to say?

It's wrong to think that Trump's name keeps liberals going unless you're alluding to the Trump revulsion which also afflicts independents. The dems are ecstatic that Trump announced. That's different to 2015. A lot of Republicans aren't too thrilled either.

[EVENKEEL]

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

He needs to brush up on his selling then, the voters didn't buy Kari Lake.

 

So currently that leaves nothing else ????

It's obvious my meaning flew over your head leading to your confused reply. Trump is so over, time for DeSantis.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

It's obvious my meaning flew over your head leading to your confused reply. Trump is so over, time for DeSantis.

Nope the meaning hit me but you must have been ducking when you read my reply.............

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

 Trump is so over, time for DeSantis.

To do what? Unite the country with his "God sent me" shtick and plans to replace democracy with theocracy?

 

The right seem to be living under a delusion that they are in fact the silent majority but folks don't like to say so because of fear of the left.

Edited November 16, 2022 by ozimoron