15 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I agree, she said it shouldn't be a vaccine-only response. Excerpt:

"Many of my colleagues warned about an over reliance on a “vaccines-only strategy” when it
became apparent that high levels of vaccinations were not going to be sufficient to contain
the pandemic or prevent long-term damage."

 

A distinct step forward from the "vaccines are the only way" doxa and its corollaries such as mandates and persecution of the unvaxxed, which lots of members of this forum partook in.

Wrong. She isn't  saying vaccination isn't the only way. She's saying that vaccination is not enough. That additional measures are necessary. She sure as shootin' wouldn't say it's okay for unvaccinated people to be working in hospitals.

 

3 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

A ten-second search pretty much sums it up.

 

That a "fact-checker" says it is no indication of it being true; most times it is an indication of the opposite.

 

Plenty of organisations have stated that the spike protein is cytotoxic, as you would have discovered if you had spent more than 10 seconds on the search. You would have found the Journal of Biomedical Sciences, for example, which notes:

 

 This study shows the effect of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), one of the drugs currently under investigation for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) treatment, on the cytotoxicity caused by spike proteins.

 

The first step of the viral replication cycle, attachment to the surface of respiratory cells, is mediated by the spike viral protein. It sets off a sequence of reactions that would eventually lead to viral spread and cell death.

Here's the conclusion cited in the abstract:

.Conclusion: The general consensus among all the assays, was either inconclusive or in support of the idea that the presence of HCQ mitigates the cytotoxic effect of SARS-S-2; With the added caveat that HCQ on it’s own was cytotoxic in it’s own right.  In the future one could follow up on this study with alternate combinations of drugs like Remdesivir or Camostat Mesylate.

 

It seems the author of the piece starts with the assumption that the spike protein is cytotoxic. Not that he's establishing that.

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

And No! I don't think men have walked on the moon

Ah, true conspiracy theory colours shown........no need for any more interchange with you, so on to ignore you go. Happy conspiracy theories.

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Wrong. She isn't  saying vaccination isn't the only way. She's saying that vaccination is not enough. That additional measures are necessary. She sure as shootin' wouldn't say it's okay for unvaccinated people to be working in hospitals.

What she is questioning in her submission is the way the vaccination was enforced on people, often against their will, and the way doctors were forced to go along with it, with threats of destroying their career if they didn't. This, combined with the fact that these jabs were far from being the panacea they were initially presented as, as well as the voices of the numerous injured people whom I highly doubt are just going to shut up and move on, is probably going to be a big ethical, regulatory and possibly legal issue in the coming months.

 

"In March 2021, the regulator warned that anyone who sought to “undermine” the national Covid vaccine rollout could face deregistration or even prosecution."

 

“Regulators of the medical profession have censored public discussion about adverse events following immunisation, with threats to doctors not to make any public statements about anything that ‘might undermine the government’s vaccine rollout’ or risk suspension or loss of their registration…"

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Where did she protest about the vaccine being forced on people?

And keep in mind that even if this was the case in Australia, and I'm not saying it was, there are a lot of other countries out there.

"A subset of medically vulnerable people includes those who have suffered adverse events following immunisation (AEFI) with COVID vaccines. I stress at the outset that these people are NOT ANTIVAXXERS.

They clearly all presented for immunisation as recommended or because their occupation required it, and would have continued to have doses of vaccine if they have not been so significantly affected by the vaccine they willingly had."

 

"Because their occupation required it" is a reference to mandates.

Dr Kerryn Phelps wife has a history of making unsubstantiated allegations it seems. This from March 2021

 

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/phelps-partners-vaccine-post-on-hunt-deleted/news-story/4d4c4d33a117fa5b873782289cc71789

 

 

Dr Kerry Chant defends the Covid vaccine despite top doctor revealing both she AND her wife suffered 'devastating' injuries from the jab

Dr Phelps said her partner's symptoms included burning face and gums, prickling sensations and numb hands and feet, which an attending doctor and nurse also observed.

New South Wales chief health officer Dr Chant was asked about Dr Phelps's vaccine injury by 2GB host John Stanley on Wednesday morning.

Dr Chant said that she would personally investigate the vaccine injuries of Dr Phelps but still stood by the Covid vaccine as the safest thing to protect Aussies from getting Covid-19.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11567377/Dr-Kerry-Chant-backs-Covid-vaccine-Dr-Kerryn-Phelps-suffered-devastating-effects.html

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Ah, true conspiracy theory colours shown........no need for any more interchange with you, so on to ignore you go. Happy conspiracy theories.

Oh no! I'm not a conspiracy theory member.

 

Please take me back Sir.

A post containing unattributed claims has been removed, also a reply

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

Dealing with these anti-VAX nut jobs with their unsubstantiated claims is becoming very wearing, and I know because I've got a couple of friends in NZ who were spouting the same nonsense from various YouTube sites and the like, that is until I told them to desist or I would cut them off completely.

 

In my lifetime (and I'm 75 years old now) I don't ever recall seeing such unsubstantiated nonsense regarding anything, let alone medical matters, and most times now I just skip over the nonsense – – I wonder why these people are so hellbent on repeating lies and nonsense??

I for one wish all the conspiracy theory folks would crawl down their rabbit hole with their fellow deep web BS and just wallow around in all the nonsense.  They have nothing other than a bunch of lame theories from obscure websites and pretend experts but do for sure love to try and argue and dig those holes even deeper.   Waste of time.

50 minutes ago, pomchop said:

I for one wish all the conspiracy theory folks would crawl down their rabbit hole with their fellow deep web BS and just wallow around in all the nonsense.  They have nothing other than a bunch of lame theories from obscure websites and pretend experts but do for sure love to try and argue and dig those holes even deeper.   Waste of time.

It is truly heartwarming and uplifting to encounter a loyal citizen who believes everything their government tells them.

 

I expect you are eligible for a Hero Citizen Award, Third Class.

There we go again. You see, for most people Covid is a thing of the past (maybe thanks to the vaccines or without them, who cares). But for antivaxxers, Covid will never end, they will go on and on about it until the cows come home.

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

"A subset of medically vulnerable people includes those who have suffered adverse events following immunisation (AEFI) with COVID vaccines. I stress at the outset that these people are NOT ANTIVAXXERS.

They clearly all presented for immunisation as recommended or because their occupation required it, and would have continued to have doses of vaccine if they have not been so significantly affected by the vaccine they willingly had."

 

"Because their occupation required it" is a reference to mandates.

Really?. She isn't protesting that their professions require vaccination. She's just noting the fact.

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Really?. She isn't protesting that their professions require vaccination. She's just noting the fact.

The term I used was "questions", not "protests".

 

Yes, she questions the government's vaccine rollout strategy and that includes mandates among several other factors.

29 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

The term I used was "questions", not "protests".

 

Yes, she questions the government's vaccine rollout strategy and that includes mandates among several other factors.

Where?

32 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Where?

Have a look at this article:

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/dr-kerryn-phelps-reveals-devastating-covid-vaccine-injury-says-doctors-have-been-censored/news-story/0c1fa02818c99a5ff65f5bf852a382cf

 

“Regulators of the medical profession have censored public discussion about adverse events following immunisation, with threats to doctors not to make any public statements about anything that ‘might undermine the government’s vaccine rollout’ or risk suspension or loss of their registration,” she said.

 

[By "regulators" she is referring to the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA), a government organization which played a central role in the vaccine rollout: https://www.health.gov.au/contacts/australian-health-practitioner-regulation-agency]

 

Still from the article:

 

The Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA), which oversees Australia’s 800,000 registered practitioners and 193,800 students, last year warned that anyone who sought to “undermine” the national Covid vaccine rollout could face deregistration or even prosecution.”.

 

Earlier this year, Australian musician Tyson ‘tyDi’ Illingworth said he had been told privately by doctors that they feared being deregistered if they linked his neurological injury to the Moderna vaccine.

 

Dr Phelps said she had heard stories of vaccine injury from “patients and other members of the community”.

8 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Have a look at this article:

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/dr-kerryn-phelps-reveals-devastating-covid-vaccine-injury-says-doctors-have-been-censored/news-story/0c1fa02818c99a5ff65f5bf852a382cf

 

“Regulators of the medical profession have censored public discussion about adverse events following immunisation, with threats to doctors not to make any public statements about anything that ‘might undermine the government’s vaccine rollout’ or risk suspension or loss of their registration,” she said.

 

[By "regulators" she is referring to the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA), a government organization which played a central role in the vaccine rollout: https://www.health.gov.au/contacts/australian-health-practitioner-regulation-agency]

 

Still from the article:

 

The Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA), which oversees Australia’s 800,000 registered practitioners and 193,800 students, last year warned that anyone who sought to “undermine” the national Covid vaccine rollout could face deregistration or even prosecution.”.

 

Earlier this year, Australian musician Tyson ‘tyDi’ Illingworth said he had been told privately by doctors that they feared being deregistered if they linked his neurological injury to the Moderna vaccine.

 

Dr Phelps said she had heard stories of vaccine injury from “patients and other members of the community”.

Nowhere in this does she question mandates or the advisability of getting vaccinated. What she has questioned is the government not doing more to acknowledge the issue of adverse consequences of vaccination and not doing more research into it.

22 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Nowhere in this does she question mandates or the advisability of getting vaccinated. What she has questioned is the government not doing more to acknowledge the issue of adverse consequences of vaccination and not doing more research into it.

Again:

 

"The Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA), which oversees Australia’s 800,000 registered practitioners and 193,800 students, last year warned that anyone who sought to “undermine” the national Covid vaccine rollout could face deregistration or even prosecution."

 

The "national Covid rollout" includes mandates.

9 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Again:

 

"The Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA), which oversees Australia’s 800,000 registered practitioners and 193,800 students, last year warned that anyone who sought to “undermine” the national Covid vaccine rollout could face deregistration or even prosecution."

 

The "national Covid rollout" includes mandates.

The national mandate included many measures. What Phelps makes clear is that she was opposed to measures that suppressed information about adverse reactions to the vaccine. She took pains to say that she is not against the vaccinations.. in fact she supports very strict anti-covid measures.

14 hours ago, JackGats said:

There we go again. You see, for most people Covid is a thing of the past (maybe thanks to the vaccines or without them, who cares). But for antivaxxers, Covid will never end, they will go on and on about it until the cows come home.

 

The anti-vaxxers that you refer to, are probably against any vaccination for anything.

 

They would probably emphasize that no disease ever has been stopped/eradicated/controlled by a vaccination.

Just now, owl sees all said:

 

The anti-vaxxers that you refer to, are probably against any vaccination for anything.

 

They would probably emphasize that no disease ever has been stopped/eradicated/controlled by a vaccination.

Except the ones that have such as Polio and many others. 

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Except the ones that have such as Polio and many others. 

IMO, there are generally two types of anti-vaxxers.

 

The first are the ones that have seen through covid, and think that the experimental jab, for something that is in all probability not going to harm them, is not worth the risk.

 

The others are against most modern medicine; and that would include all vaccines. They have done their research, and believe that big pharma call the shots; and their main aim is making money, not keeping people healthy.

11 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

IMO, there are generally two types of anti-vaxxers.

 

The first are the ones that have seen through covid, and think that the experimental jab, for something that is in all probability not going to harm them, is not worth the risk.

Covid vaccines have saved millions of lives throughout the world. 

11 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

The others are against most modern medicine; and that would include all vaccines. They have done their research, and believe that big pharma call the shots; and their main aim is making money, not keeping people healthy.

Their research is flawed. Take the US for example, why has polio been eradicated? The only cases that ever crop up are wild cases imported from an unvaccinated person.

 

How about small pox? Also eradicated though vaccines.

 

This is keeping people healthy contrary to your opinion. The above are also just 2 examples.

 

P.S. These vaccines are free to recipients

15 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

It is truly heartwarming and uplifting to encounter a loyal citizen who believes everything their government tells them.

 

I expect you are eligible for a Hero Citizen Award, Third Class.

No  I don't believe everything the govt or most anybody tells me.  I do believe I can do research and trust those who have tons of valid data that backs up various claims and sort the BS from the truth.

 

a loyal citizen that doesn't believe in a bunch of idiotic conspiracy theories and spread as if it were all true....a loyal citizen that has a darn good nose that can smell BS when i encounter it....

 

I do not believe the big lie of rigged election, i do not believe the moon landing was a big hoax, i do not believe that the dems are controlled by some cabal perverts, i do not believe that bill gates wants me to get vaxed to track me....i do not believe that covid vaxs were some big conspiracy theory that did nothing to lessen deaths....i could go on and no but i do believe i would be wasting my time with people who will and do believe all sorts of nonsense and defend their "beliefs" to the death.  Oh and i do not believe the earth is flat much to the dismay of many.

 

I  ain't buying a sack of BS no matter how many times it gets posted and reposted.

Off topic and a bizarre off topic conspiracy troll post and reply removed

3 hours ago, pomchop said:

No  I don't believe everything the govt or most anybody tells me.  I do believe I can do research and trust those who have tons of valid data that backs up various claims and sort the BS from the truth.

 

a loyal citizen that doesn't believe in a bunch of idiotic conspiracy theories and spread as if it were all true....a loyal citizen that has a darn good nose that can smell BS when i encounter it....

 

I do not believe the big lie of rigged election, i do not believe the moon landing was a big hoax, i do not believe that the dems are controlled by some cabal perverts, i do not believe that bill gates wants me to get vaxed to track me....i do not believe that covid vaxs were some big conspiracy theory that did nothing to lessen deaths....i could go on and no but i do believe i would be wasting my time with people who will and do believe all sorts of nonsense and defend their "beliefs" to the death.  Oh and i do not believe the earth is flat much to the dismay of many.

 

I  ain't buying a sack of BS no matter how many times it gets posted and reposted.

Great post....well done Pomchop, and for the record I am exactly the same!

4 hours ago, pomchop said:

No  I don't believe everything the govt or most anybody tells me.  I do believe I can do research and trust those who have tons of valid data that backs up various claims and sort the BS from the truth.

 

a loyal citizen that doesn't believe in a bunch of idiotic conspiracy theories and spread as if it were all true....a loyal citizen that has a darn good nose that can smell BS when i encounter it....

 

I do not believe the big lie of rigged election, i do not believe the moon landing was a big hoax, i do not believe that the dems are controlled by some cabal perverts, i do not believe that bill gates wants me to get vaxed to track me....i do not believe that covid vaxs were some big conspiracy theory that did nothing to lessen deaths....i could go on and no but i do believe i would be wasting my time with people who will and do believe all sorts of nonsense and defend their "beliefs" to the death.  Oh and i do not believe the earth is flat much to the dismay of many.

 

I  ain't buying a sack of BS no matter how many times it gets posted and reposted.

And do you believe that other people, of sound mind and in good faith, could do their own research and come to a different conclusion about things - not so much the silly ones above, but about, say, the usefulness and desirability of "vaccinating" everyone in the world against Covid, for example?

 

Or does anyone who disagree in any way with the official Covid narrative qualify as a crackpot and conspiracy theorist in your eyes?

 

And was it right to impose mandates on people to get vaccinated on pain of losing their jobs, and being fined, in your opinion?

3 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

And do you believe that other people, of sound mind and in good faith, could do their own research and come to a different conclusion about things - not so much the silly ones above, but about, say, the usefulness and desirability of "vaccinating" everyone in the world against Covid, for example?

 

Or does anyone who disagree in any way with the official Covid narrative qualify as a crackpot and conspiracy theorist in your eyes?

 

O

"usefulness and desirability of "vaccinating" everyone in the world against Covid, for example?"

 

Never heard anyone suggest that, you talk about silly ones, that seems a very silly question. The aim is for everyone that wants one to have access to one.

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

"usefulness and desirability of "vaccinating" everyone in the world against Covid, for example?"

 

Never heard anyone suggest that, you talk about silly ones, that seems a very silly question. The aim is for everyone that wants one to have access to one.

... and for those who don't want one to be forced to have one, two, and then three, or lose their jobs, face a monthly fine, or be barred from public spaces .....

Just now, Eleftheros said:

... and for those who don't want one to be forced to have one, two, and then three, or lose their jobs, face a monthly fine, or be barred from public spaces .....

Who's being forced? What country bars you from going in public spaces?

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Who's being forced?

You cannot be serious.

 

Canadians, Americans, Europeans, Australians all faced various forms of vaccine mandates (some still do) or face the official sanctions I mentioned.