Condo prices in Bangkok

[Schnicnac]

Hi guys,

 

currently considering buying a condo in BKK and try to figure out what "fair market" prices actually are, aside from looking at "sold" stats at property platforms.

 

Is there any "accepted" index for new builds (off-plan) and existing condo prices for different areas in BKK? Especially interested in Sathorn/ Lumpini area.

 

Thank you

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

This will give you a good overview:

Thailand Property - 40,512 Condos & Houses For Sale | FazWaz

 

Obviously it would be perfect to see up to date and accurate prices. I don't know if you can find them on that website or anywhere else. But what you can find already:

- any condominiums in a certain area, shown on a map

- basic info like when it was built, number of floors, etc.

- rough idea about prices, especially compare if building A or B or C is in general more expensive.

- size of units. In many buildings are only a few kind of units. I.e. maybe you look for 120sqm and they just don't exist in some buildings.

 

Last year I bought a condo in one high-rise condominium in Sukhumvit. They had/have maybe 15 floors with similar corner units. Many of those units were available to vastly different prices. In the building which I checked most needed renovation - that's what I expected. I couldn't find any logic with the prices within that building. Theoretically I would have thought units in higher floors and needing less renovation should be more expensive. No. The most expensive unit which I looked at was in a horrible condition. At the end I bought a unit in one of the highest floors for the best available price in that building. If there was any logic, I didn't see it.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

And in general: Most people here agree that it only make sense to buy something if you want to use it yourself. 

Don't hope to sell and make money anytime soon. And don't think it will be easy to rent it out and get regular income. Maybe all that is possible, but you can't rely on it.

[ezzra]

As an owner of several condos past and present in Bkk i can tell you that there is not an established market price indicator to what you're looking for, it is all up to location, size, age and amenities of the building that will form the value of the premises, sometimes even in the same street or the same building you'll find different prices. so it is the leg work and time to find the one that suits your needs.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, ezzra said:

As an owner of several condos past and present in Bkk i can tell you that there is not an established market price indicator to what you're looking for, it is all up to location, size, age and amenities of the building that will form the value of the premises, sometimes even in the same street or the same building you'll find different prices. so it is the leg work and time to find the one that suits your needs.

And it seems many sellers have the same problem. They don't know what they can/should ask for. And that brings big price differences for no apparent reason - at least for "old" units and buildings. 

[RAZZELL]

In the condo where I used to rent, similar properties for sale had price differences of maybe 30-40%!

 

Personally, I would look at similar condos in the same building/on the same floor, work out an average price - then offer 30% less.

 

Some condos I looked at are still for sale 3 years later...some people have very unrealistic expectations!

 

RAZZ

[Schnicnac]

Thanks guys for the feedback, much appreciated.

 

@OneMoreFarang will dig through the stats there thank you.

 

I see prices of 220K THB/sqm for new/ offplan in that area I'm looking at (Sathorn, close to BTS) meanwhile a few 100ms afar it's already 50K THB less (existing building) which makes it confusing to get to "fair" value....probably less of a concern if for pure self use only...

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, Schnicnac said:

Thanks guys for the feedback, much appreciated.

 

@OneMoreFarang will dig through the stats there thank you.

 

I see prices of 220K THB/sqm for new/ offplan in that area I'm looking at (Sathorn, close to BTS) meanwhile a few 100ms afar it's already 50K THB less (existing building) which makes it confusing to get to "fair" value....probably less of a concern if for pure self use only...

Sometimes, maybe even often, the price difference is worse than that. A newer building in "my" soi, not even 500m away, charges about 3 times as much per sqm. Ok, that's new. But when I compare what I paid and what I spent on an expensive 100% renovation then the new building is still more than double expensive compared to the 100% renovated condo. Obviously there are the facilities inside the building. But personally I think the difference is just too high for new units. 

[LogicThai]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And in general: Most people here agree that it only make sense to buy something if you want to use it yourself. 

Don't hope to sell and make money anytime soon. And don't think it will be easy to rent it out and get regular income. Maybe all that is possible, but you can't rely on it.

I came to the same conclusion, and even for own use, it looks like a massive commitment of capital in a very illiquid real estate market. Moreover, owning a condo necessarily means being tied up to a large number of co-owners of the property, who might struggle to pay for the upkeep, thus driving the value down. And of course, they keep adding hundreds of new units to the market every year, thus increasing competition for rental and for resale.

All in all, condos in BKK is a renter's market.

I am currently looking for a large (3-4 bedrooms) condo or townhouse, and the disconnect between asked rent and sale price is staggering....

[GinBoy2]

Real Estate in Thailand is confusing, honestly it makes no sense.

 

We owned three units in Noble Remix, and in all honestly the only reason we bought them was because the Japanese expat community liked them, and they were easy rentals.

 

In terms of equity appreciation it was zero, With the amount of new build I was happy to get out without losing money.

 

It's a weird market so buckle up

 

 

[Schnicnac]

38 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sometimes, maybe even often, the price difference is worse than that. A newer building in "my" soi, not even 500m away, charges about 3 times as much per sqm. Ok, that's new. But when I compare what I paid and what I spent on an expensive 100% renovation then the new building is still more than double expensive compared to the 100% renovated condo. Obviously there are the facilities inside the building. But personally I think the difference is just too high for new units. 

Seems that it is a fair "better bet" to buy an existing (2nd/ 3rd whatever hand) unit, refurbish it to own taste, primarily for own use, and then take the "potential resale in future/ capital appreciation/ renting it out" as a lucky extra but not granted.

I'd be quite curious what the purchase decision thinking is like among locals when buying into (expensive) off-plan units. For capital appreciation? For resale (locals don't seem to like non-new units)? For rental? Lifestyle? There must be some general perception and expectations among them when it comes to such investments but I haven't figured it out...


 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Schnicnac said:

Seems that it is a fair "better bet" to buy an existing (2nd/ 3rd whatever hand) unit, refurbish it to own taste, primarily for own use, and then take the "potential resale in future/ capital appreciation/ renting it out" as a lucky extra but not granted.

I'd be quite curious what the purchase decision thinking is like among locals when buying into (expensive) off-plan units. For capital appreciation? For resale (locals don't seem to like non-new units)? For rental? Lifestyle? There must be some general perception and expectations among them when it comes to such investments but I haven't figured it out...

Slowly I understand why people buy new. Because it is difficult and expensive to renovate. I had an experienced project manager and a good contractor. But some workers are just not good. And the contractors seem to have problems finding good workers. My renovation is almost over and I am happy that it is done. And we had some problems but not real big issues. But after all the headache for over 1/2 year I understand better that many people want to buy something new and finished.

And then there are the extra costs. After I bought my condominium, I still lived/live in a rented condo until the renovation is finished. That cost money.

And I think new projects have sometimes (often?) good financing options. I am pretty sure it is a lot more difficult to get a loan for the purchase of an "old" unit.

[Faltu]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And in general: Most people here agree that it only make sense to buy something if you want to use it yourself. 

Don't hope to sell and make money anytime soon. And don't think it will be easy to rent it out and get regular income. Maybe all that is possible, but you can't rely on it.

Can't you rent it on AirBnb. I have one house in Orlando and one In Last Vegas. I rent them on AirBnb in between long-term rental contract. It pays my mortgage and maintenance and agent fees and I make a few hundred dollars profit from each now. The profit will be in appreciation in the future. Housing is depressed now in the US. It will pick up in the future. I will be scouting for a third house for AirBnb next year. Living in Thailand is great for saving money. 

I can't invest in Thailand because I don't know the language and don't have access to investor's money for loan in Thailand. 

[blackcab]

5 hours ago, Schnicnac said:

(locals don't seem to like non-new units)

 

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Slowly I understand why people buy new. Because it is difficult and expensive to renovate.

 

You also have to consider that many condos are purchased with a mortgage, no different than many other countries. With a new condo the developer has a relationship with the bank who is financing the entire condominium project (and often other banks as well), so minor issues between the customer and the bank can often be smoothed over.

 

Someone buying a used condo unit will have to deal with the bank entirely on their own, and that is just not as easy. For example you will need the unit surveyed to assess its value, whereas with buying a new unit the bank has already assessed every unit in the building, saving cost, time and allowing the bank to offer a "package" type mortgage.

 

It's often not that people don't like used units, it's simply a case of finance. I guarantee that if I was selling 10 used units on Sukhumvit or Sathorn at an 80 per cent discount there would be a queue around the block.

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

 

You also have to consider that many condos are purchased with a mortgage, no different than many other countries. With a new condo the developer has a relationship with the bank who is financing the entire condominium project (and often other banks as well), so minor issues between the customer and the bank can often be smoothed over.

 

Someone buying a used condo unit will have to deal with the bank entirely on their own, and that is just not as easy. For example you will need the unit surveyed to assess its value, whereas with buying a new unit the bank has already assessed every unit in the building, saving cost, time and allowing the bank to offer a "package" type mortgage.

 

It's often not that people don't like used units, it's simply a case of finance. I guarantee that if I was selling 10 units on Sukhumvit or Sathorn at an 80 per cent discount there would be a queue around the block.

A few years ago, just before covid I read that most BKK condos were sold for cash.

[soi3eddie]

40 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

 

You also have to consider that many condos are purchased with a mortgage, no different than many other countries. With a new condo the developer has a relationship with the bank who is financing the entire condominium project (and often other banks as well), so minor issues between the customer and the bank can often be smoothed over.

 

Someone buying a used condo unit will have to deal with the bank entirely on their own, and that is just not as easy. For example you will need the unit surveyed to assess its value, whereas with buying a new unit the bank has already assessed every unit in the building, saving cost, time and allowing the bank to offer a "package" type mortgage.

 

It's often not that people don't like used units, it's simply a case of finance. I guarantee that if I was selling 10 units on Sukhumvit or Sathorn at an 80 per cent discount there would be a queue around the block.

See the buying of a new condo with a loan as "vendor finance" and only available to qualifying Thais and foreigners with work permits etc. Or else full payment in cash. The banks are heavily subscribed to the developer's project so they want to get it sold and liability spread ASAP.

 

Re-sale of used condos is very difficult as banks are super strict regarding finance for secondary sales and interest rates often higher. I experienced this when going through a charade of my condo sale on divorce in 2017. We had several interested Thai buyers but none of them could get the required finance. A lower offer was finally received at which point I invoked the divorce settlement clause to match that highest offer and got to keep my condo (as always intended, at exactly what I originally offered the ex as settlement).

 

[blackcab]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A few years ago, just before covid I read that most BKK condos were sold for cash.

 

I would agree when it comes to used units, but not so much new units. Since the BOT's tightening of lending criteria for mortgages it has been harder for many individuals to get a mortgage, which is where developers can assist is some small ways with new condos.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A few years ago, just before covid I read that most BKK condos were sold for cash.

I think this might have been fueled by Chinese money coming into the kingdom, perhaps before the Chinese government put limits on the amount of money that could be taken out of China. 

[blackcab]

10 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I think this might have been fueled by Chinese money coming into the kingdom, perhaps before the Chinese government put limits on the amount of money that could be taken out of China. 

 

Perhaps in some areas such as Pattaya, but not so much in Bangkok. From experience there are very very few condo projects in Bangkok that get anywhere close to maxing out the foreigner quota, to the extent that discussion of the project's ratio isn't really a thing in Bangkok.

[soi3eddie]

2 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

Perhaps in some areas such as Pattaya, but not so much in Bangkok. From experience there are very very few condo projects in Bangkok that get anywhere close to maxing out the foreigner quota, to the extent that discussion of the project's ratio isn't really a thing in Bangkok.

My 99 unit condo building here in Bangkok (not far from Phaya Thai) has just 3 foreign owners. No worry about foreign quota. 

 

 

[Capitalist]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:56 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Sometimes, maybe even often, the price difference is worse than that. A newer building in "my" soi, not even 500m away, charges about 3 times as much per sqm. Ok, that's new. But when I compare what I paid and what I spent on an expensive 100% renovation then the new building is still more than double expensive compared to the 100% renovated condo. Obviously there are the facilities inside the building. But personally I think the difference is just too high for new units. 

Thai really like their things new. This is true for clothing, iPhones and also for condos. I’ve asked many local Thai friends over the year “Hey, what app or website can I use to buy second hand goods? Is there like a Thai eBay?”

 

They answered

- “I never buy second hand”

- “We don’t have a website. Thai’s buy new.”

“ “Second hand is bad and unreliable.”

 

One Thai even told me that she was afraid to buy a second hand iPhone because it could contain a ghost of the previous owner ????.

 

Now to the good part: how can we utilize this to our benefit? A very experienced Thai real estate broker told me that it’s best to buy condos that are 20 years old. Because new condos can decline in price radidly, as they’re no longer “new” a few years after. Older condos have already declined and are now priced much closer to their long term steady value.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, Capitalist said:

Older condos have already declined and are now priced much closer to their long term steady value.

The question is only if you find someone who wants to buy it, for a reasonable price, when you want to sell...