Is it legal for a property own to take my money like this?

[nailbrains8]

I went to look at renting a home the other day, I was pressured into paying a 15K deposit on the spot which I did and then 3 hours later I contacted the real estate agent to tell them that I did not wish to go through with renting the home.

 

She contacted the property owner who initially refused to pay me back my 15K deposit and then later the next day transferred me back 12K, keeping 3K baht.

 

Is this legal for them to do this? We had no written agreement and I feel like they've basically just stole 3K baht from me.

[NoDisplayName]

Why would you hand over 15K baht with no written agreement?

[soi3eddie]

Never be pressured into anything. Take it as a lesson that you at least got back 80%. No, it's probably not legal but without a written contract, what are you going to do? I'd be much more careful next time. We all learn from lessons like this (and thanks for sharing).

 

[nailbrains8]

30 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Why would you hand over 15K baht with no written agreement?

I was being told that if I didn't pay immediately I would not be able to rent the property. Yes, stupid mistake but I was under pressure and in haste made a bad decision. It happens.

 

What I really want to know is if there is any recourse for this? 

 

It isn't a lot of money. However, based on principle I feel like it is theft and should be addressed in some way if at all possible.

[Bill97]

13 minutes ago, nailbrains8 said:

However, based on principle I feel like it is theft

Well your feeling is wrong.  Based on principle they should have given you nothing back.  

[tgw]

50 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Why would you hand over 15K baht with no written agreement?

yes, that would be my reaction too.

there are also plenty of people leaving their passports with motorcycle rentals.

[blackcab]

28 minutes ago, nailbrains8 said:

What I really want to know is if there is any recourse for this? 

 

None at all, and consider yourself lucky you got any money back at all. All the other party had to say was you gave a nonrefundable deposit and due to your own decision to cancel you forfeited your money.

[Regyai]

^^

THIS

[eisfeld]

35 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

None at all, and consider yourself lucky you got any money back at all. All the other party had to say was you gave a nonrefundable deposit and due to your own decision to cancel you forfeited your money.

The only recourse would be if OP had whitnesses that can testify that the deposit was refundable. Doesn't sound like it though.

[stoner]

1 hour ago, nailbrains8 said:

I was being told that if I didn't pay immediately I would not be able to rent the property. Yes, stupid mistake but I was under pressure and in haste made a bad decision. It happens.

last available apartment in bkk. smart move. 

[nailbrains8]

11 minutes ago, stoner said:

last available apartment in bkk. smart move. 

Who said it was an apartment in Bangkok? 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Why would you hand over 15K baht with no written agreement?

Further, the 'property' industry is not known for being highly ethical or moral, looks like you've learned a lesson.

[scorecard]

44 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

The only recourse would be if OP had whitnesses that can testify that the deposit was refundable. Doesn't sound like it though.

Lucky he/she only 3,000Baht, forget it, learn, move on. The reality is that in most areas of Thailand there's a deluge of property, all types, for rent. 

 

When you do rent insist on the owner/agent being there, before you actally move in and take hundreds of photos all with a date/time stamp. Anything that is damaged/stained etc., take multiple photos.

Edited March 22, 2023 by scorecard

[Elkski]

What would be the purpose of a refundable deposit may I ask? Sometimes here in USA there is an application fee.  But if taken then you must look at the application and have a reason to deny.  Usually you are supposed to have a set of preestablished reasonable rules.  Like % salary,  # people per bedroom, no dogs, no criminal records, no prior evictions etc.  

In a hot rental market you may need to give a deposit to reserve the place.   The landlord may cancel other showings  so he is taking a risk.   But I will add that I think 15bkbis crazy high considering that is like 1 month rent or salary for most Thai people.   I would only ask for 200-300$ deposit here. But usually not that many inquiries each day. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Elkski

[nailbrains8]

6 minutes ago, Elkski said:

What would be the purpose of a refundable deposit may I ask? Sometimes here in USA there is an application fee.  But if taken then you must look at the application and have a reason to deny.  Usually you are supposed to have a set of preestablished reasonable rules.  Like % salary,  # people per bedroom, no dogs, no criminal records, no prior evictions etc.  

In a hot rental market you may need to give a deposit to reserve the place.   The landlord may cancel other showings  so he is taking a risk.   But I will add that I think 15bkbis crazy high considering that is like 1 month rent or salary for most Thai people.   I would only ask for 200-300$ deposit here. But usually not that many inquiries each day. 

To reserve it but I cancelled after less than 3 hours. 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

I was being told that if I didn't pay immediately I would not be able to rent the property. Yes, stupid mistake but I was under pressure and in haste made a bad decision. It happens.

 

What I really want to know is if there is any recourse for this? 

 

It isn't a lot of money. However, based on principle I feel like it is theft and should be addressed in some way if at all possible.

If I understand correctly, you agreed to rent the apartment, and you put down a deposit.  I assume this was an annual rental, not a month-to-month deal.

 

Is there any recourse?   You think the landlord could sue you for breaking the *oral* contract, demand full payment of all rent due?

[Enoon]

46 minutes ago, nailbrains8 said:

To reserve it but I cancelled after less than 3 hours. 

Everybody ***** up sometime.

 

You have to live your life....... not some fiction where you, as the hero in your private movie, always ends up "even" or "ahead" despite steering into the ****.

 

Get over it, learn, move on.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Enoon

[DudleySquat]

3 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

I was being told that if I didn't pay immediately I would not be able to rent the property. Yes, stupid mistake but I was under pressure and in haste made a bad decision. It happens.

 

What I really want to know is if there is any recourse for this? 

 

It isn't a lot of money. However, based on principle I feel like it is theft and should be addressed in some way if at all possible.

Based on principle go to the police and charge him with theft by deception.  Even if you have to pay the police money, it will be worth it to make his life miserable.

[Elkski]

Deposit doesn't mean it is all returned.   In this case it was a deposit to give the possible Tennant time to decide.  If the entire deposit was returned then why even take a deposit.   I do admit 3 hours is a short time.     

Next time I would get a receipt that would specify a time  limit vs penalty amount and I would think 3-4x the daily  rent rate would cover the possible loss of rental income and provide you with 24 hours to decide.   

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, eisfeld said:

The only recourse would be if OP had whitnesses that can testify that the deposit was refundable. Doesn't sound like it though.

Witnesses are irrelevant to what might have been said if a legal contract was signed.

Typically with leases that provide some degree of refund (ie., full, partial), proper written notification for request of refund (ie., 30-days notice) and landlord response time is required, not feelings. 

In this case no reference is made to any terms of a written contract. In which the OP illegally breached the contract. A lease may require a penalty payment for breach, early termination, etc.

If no contract, without at least two independent and unrelated witnesses, 99% possession of the cash applies. Paying 3,000 THB for lessons learned is fair.

[alex8912]

6 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

To reserve it but I cancelled after less than 3 hours. 

Because AFTER you left a deposit because you wanted the apartment you then continued your search and found another one.  I've seen this practice many many times in my life and I simply just can't understand people like you. From most owners you would have gotten zip back!  

[OneMoreFarang]

7 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

To reserve it but I cancelled after less than 3 hours. 

When you paid the 15k, what did you agree?

It seems you agreed that you will rent the property. Even if it's not written, it's a contract.

What else was agreed?

 

Did the agent or owner assure you that you can change your mind (within time x) and then you will get all your money back? In your post you didn't write that you talked with them about this. And now it seems you think there should be a least a couple of hours time where you can change your mind. Why do you think that?

 

And imagine a situation where you were happy to have a rental agreement. All fine, you are ready to move it. And then, a day later, the agent contacts you and tells you he wants to give you your deposit back because now someone else will rent it. Would you accept that? Or would you insist you paid the deposit, and this is why only you are legally allowed to rent it?

 

I suggest for next time ask them what happens if you or they change their mind. And maybe there are some other conditions. At least talk about them and better, write them down. Just assuming something is the way you hope it should be doesn't make much sense. 

[Thingamabob]

9 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

I was being told that if I didn't pay immediately I would not be able to rent the property. Yes, stupid mistake but I was under pressure and in haste made a bad decision. It happens.

 

What I really want to know is if there is any recourse for this? 

 

It isn't a lot of money. However, based on principle I feel like it is theft and should be addressed in some way if at all possible.

Not a hope. You were unwise. Best to move on.

[J Branche]

I've been in the US Real Estate market for 12 years.  A security deposit is to secure an item from being sold.  A security deposit terms (Refundable, Partially Refundable, or Non-refundable) and the time frame you have to perform the defined obligations in a contract.  I am not knowledgeable in Thai Civil Law but there is still an intent and obligation to the person providing the security deposit.  If the Landlord finds another renter in a couple of days you can attempt to negotiate the potential loss in income between when you put the security deposit down and when the other renter will take possession.

 

Always read, understand and negotiate any contract terms, anywhere in the world.  Do Not Sign anything until you fully read and understand the contract, the landlord and the tenant obligations and penalties if either side fails to perform.  

 

I wish you the best.

 

I try to educate people to keep emotions out of Real Estate.  Look at it as a business transaction.

Luckily you only paid 3,000 for this lesson.  I've seen people lose a lot of money thinking they were smarter than the market and all the other experienced RE Investors.

[itsari]

I believe you were fortunate to get any money back . When you gave the deposit to the agent you made an agreement to rent the property . Breaking the agreement after three hour will have consequences .

[JimTripper]

Keeping 3k baht is reasonable.

The landlord may have cancelled with other prospective tenants during the 3 hours. Also, changing your mind wasted the landlords time.

 

If you ever feel pressured again or uncomfortable, just ask to use the restroom, then leave out the door when they are in the other room. If the door is locked you got bigger problems!

 

Another side note. Anytime anything is rushed it’s a big red flag. You need to ask yourself why they are desperate. Usually they are trying to hide something and want to close the deal before you see some kind of problem. Includes landlords who get irritated when you take the time to inspect a property. The typical excuse is you are wasting their time.

 

I used to buy used cars and certain sellers don’t want to allow mechanical inspections or let you “kick the tires” because they are “too busy”. Same principal, they are hiding something.

Edited March 23, 2023 by JimTripper

[Tarteso]

Think twice next time.. This is Thailand.

[Iron Tongue]

Consider yourself lucky.

You wasted people's time.

You also made a good faith deposit so the owner will rent the apartment to you and to nobody else.  This is an enforceable oral agreement.

When you changed your mind, you broke the oral contract.  The Owner could have kept all 15K as Liquidated Damages, which is the penalty you suffer in order to be released from your agreement.  Theoretically, the Owner could sue you for Specific Performance and force you to pay for an entire years worth of rent.

You are lucky you got away with only losing 3K.

I would have kept all of it because you wasted my time.

[Freddy42OZ]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

Anything that is damaged/stained etc., take multiple photos.

Better yet, don't move into somewhere that has damaged or stained anything.  

Have some standards!

[klauskunkel]

10 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

based on principle I feel like it is theft

the home owner probably felt it is the fee for a lesson he provided