Berlin welcomes topless female swimmers in victory for activists

[ozimoron]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2023/mar/25/berlin-welcomes-topless-female-swimmers-in-victory-for-activists

[Pique Dard]

"my body is my choice"

i wonder, so you chose to be born and to be born woman? just a question ????

[StayinThailand2much]

I welcome those topless activists. However, pics would help in understanding the importance of such news...

[nglodnig]

Turn Around! TURN AROUND!

[sidneybear]

First World problems 

[BangkokReady]

Very interesting, but the slogan "my body, my choice" doesn't always apply.

 

There are plenty of situations where, even though your body does belong to you, you cannot choose what you do with it and have to follow rules and laws.

 

Also, your "choice" of what you do with your body doesn't protect you from any consequences.

[KhunBENQ]

So in Berlin you will then see topless women (and don't assume it's the young aesthetic figures first) side by side with burkini swimmers (no joke!).

 

[KhunBENQ]

7 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I welcome those topless activists. However, pics would help in understanding the importance of such news...

Have ever been to a nudist camp?

After that you won't be too eager for more pics.

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, Pique Dard said:

"my body is my choice"

i wonder, so you chose to be born and to be born woman? just a question

If you bothered to read the slogan, you wouldn't need to ask that question...it is "My body [,] my choice", not "My body is my choice". 

Those in the photo are expressing their right to do what they want with their own bodies, none of them are claiming that they chose the body they have.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

If you bothered to read the slogan, you wouldn't need to ask that question...it is "My body [,] my choice", not "My body is my choice". 

Those in the photo are expressing their right to do what they want with their own bodies, none of them are claiming that they chose the body they have.

Their body, their choice ......... apart from COVID vaccination, which is the government and big pharmas choice.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Their body, their choice ......... apart from COVID vaccination, which is the government and big pharmas choice.

I don't believe that any governments, or drug companies, forced people to have vaccinations against their will.

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I don't believe that any governments, or drug companies, forced people to have vaccinations against their will.

They did actually. "Vaccinate your children or we will deny them their education." being only one of their tactics.

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Very interesting, but the slogan "my body, my choice" doesn't always apply.

 

There are plenty of situations where, even though your body does belong to you, you cannot choose what you do with it and have to follow rules and laws.

 

Also, your "choice" of what you do with your body doesn't protect you from any consequences.

Very few countries allow euthanasia, one example.

[BangkokReady]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Very few countries allow euthanasia, one example.

True.  And in most countries, if you try to harm yourself, people will lock you up for your own protection.

 

I really dislike the "my body my choice" concept.  Especially when it's twinned with "you have to do what I say because I'm in X protected group".  It's kind of like "My body my choice; but also your body my choice".

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

True.  And in most countries, if you try to harm yourself, people will lock you up for your own protection.

 

I really dislike the "my body my choice" concept.  Especially when it's twinned with "you have to do what I say because I'm in X protected group".  It's kind of like "My body my choice; but also your body my choice".

It's just a take off from the abortion slogan.

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It's just a take off from the abortion slogan.

But the problem with this kind of "moral absolutism", or perhaps it's "complete agency", is that you can't pick and choose.  Because if it applies in one area it must apply in all.

 

If you can answer "my body, my choice" with "well actually no, you don't always have a choice about what you can do with your body" then it becomes kind of meaningless.

 

We have to share a society, so people cannot simply do whatever they want with their bodies.  Otherwise some mental patient should be able to go to the beach, take a <deleted> and start masturbating in front of everyone.  Then when people complain he can say "my body, my choice".

 

It's all about the level of body parts and bodily functions that we are happy with being exposed to.  We decide as a society and then people have to follow the laws, they cannot simply do whatever they want because it's their body.

[GroveHillWanderer]

42 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

They did actually. "Vaccinate your children or we will deny them their education." being only one of their tactics.

I'm not aware of any countries that made Covid vaccinations mandatory for children to access schooling.

 

Can you name any that did?

Edited March 26, 2023 by GroveHillWanderer

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

But the problem with this kind of "moral absolutism", or perhaps it's "complete agency", is that you can't pick and choose.  Because if it applies in one area it must apply in all.

 

If you can answer "my body, my choice" with "well actually no, you don't always have a choice about what you can do with your body" then it becomes kind of meaningless.

 

We have to share a society, so people cannot simply do whatever they want with their bodies.  Otherwise some mental patient should be able to go to the beach, take a <deleted> and start masturbating in front of everyone.  Then when people complain he can say "my body, my choice".

 

It's all about the level of body parts and bodily functions that we are happy with being exposed to.  We decide as a society and then people have to follow the laws, they cannot simply do whatever they want because it's their body.

That's the old slippery slope canard. Those slogans were about women's right to go topless since men do and nothing else. Everything else is whataboutism, off topic and ghosts in the house.

[Jai Dee]

An off-topic troll post has been removed.

[BangkokReady]

31 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That's the old slippery slope canard. Those slogans were about women's right to go topless since men do and nothing else. Everything else is whataboutism, off topic and ghosts in the house.

It's not slippery slope, as I was suggesting that it would progress from one thing being allowed to another thing being allowed.

 

It's not whataboutism, as I wasn't suggesting that something else being bad removed the badness of what is being discussed.

 

You really need to learn your concepts a little better.

 

Your simply labelling what I have said as something that it is not in order to avoid having put together a proper rebuttal, because you cannot.

 

They aren't off topic either, as the topic is what parts of the body people can show in public.

 

It's perfectly valid to suggest that what one person thinks is OK another might find indecent. Also women have breasts and men don't, so it isn't the same.

 

It doesn't matter what the slogans were originally user for. You cannot control them in such a way to say that "my body my choice" only counts for abortion and women wanting to go topless. To suggest otherwise is absurd. A principle is a principle.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

It's not slippery slope, as I was suggesting that it would progress from one thing being allowed to another thing being allowed.

 

It's not whataboutism, as I wasn't suggesting that something else being bad removed the badness of what is being discussed.

 

You really need to learn your concepts a little better.

 

Your simply labelling what I have said as something that it is not in order to avoid having put together a proper rebuttal, because you cannot.

 

They aren't off topic either, as the topic is what parts of the body people can show in public.

 

It's perfectly valid to suggest that what one person thinks is OK another might find indecent. Also women have breasts and men don't, so it isn't the same.

 

It doesn't matter what the slogans were originally user for. You cannot control them in such a way to say that "my body my choice" only counts for abortion and women wanting to go topless. To suggest otherwise is absurd. A principle is a principle.

You have no indication or evidence whatsoever that the intentions of those women writing those slogans on their bodies were anything other than a protest abpout not being allowed to go topless at Berlin swimming pools. Suggesting that anything else is implicated is whataboutery and off topic as I suggested.

[Sunmaster]

51 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm not aware of any countries that made Covid vaccinations mandatory for children to access schooling.

 

Can you name any that did?

Italy. Unvaccinated children were not allowed to attend classes. That effectively forced parents to vaccinate them. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

Italy. Unvaccinated children were not allowed to attend classes. That effectively forced parents to vaccinate them. 

Did they not have online classes? Italy was a horror story in the early days of covid.

[BangkokReady]

46 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You have no indication or evidence whatsoever that the intentions of those women writing those slogans on their bodies were anything other than a protest abpout not being allowed to go topless at Berlin swimming pools.

It doesn't matter. They don't have a monopoly on the phrase "my body my choice". Anyone saying "my body my choice" is suggesting that as people own their bodies they should be free to choose what to do with them.

 

46 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Suggesting that anything else is implicated is whataboutery and off topic as I suggested.

Again, you have no idea what "whataboutery" is. I recommend you ensure that you have a better understanding of any terms that you use before trying to use them.

 

An analogy is not whataboutery.

[onthedarkside]

Off topic post attempting to hijack the thread with covid mandates. Replies also removed

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I don't believe that any governments, or drug companies, forced people to have vaccinations against their will.

They did make life unpleasant for those that refused. Many lost their jobs for their choice. I couldn't even go to the movies without being injected. I did get injected once an old technology version was available, but it was against my will.

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm all for women going topless, but only for those that don't have to wear a bra to keep them in place.

[toofarnorth]

On 3/26/2023 at 3:45 AM, StayinThailand2much said:

I welcome those topless activists. However, pics would help in understanding the importance of such news...

Yes , must keep abreast of this situation.

[Will B Good]

I guess if any of them drown they go tits up.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/26/2023 at 1:25 PM, Sunmaster said:

Italy. Unvaccinated children were not allowed to attend classes. That effectively forced parents to vaccinate them. 

Are you sure? I can only find articles saying that at one point, school staff in Italy had to be vaccinated. I searched and couldn't find a link with a story about vaccinations for school children being required.

 

Do you have a source I could look at?