Can someone help me understand?

[Batty]

I should warn you that I know naff-all about computers. I worry this might be a dumber than dumb question, as a result.

 

So I purchased a really nice Lenovo 520 Yoda laptop 3 years ago. One month after the warranty expired, the laptop suddenly froze. I tried rebooting, but every 5 or 10 minutes the same thing would happen and it woild suddenly freeze.

 

I took it to a local somchai style repair shop. The guy said it would take 4 hours to repair. Two weeks later, he called me and said "cannot". I inquired as to what, exactly, the problem might be, but all he could offer me was a goofy gormless smile with the accompanying "cannot".

 

I took the laptop home and when I turned it on, I see that Inow have a black screen of doom. Nothing happened when I tried to power the laptop on, no power light, just a black screen with no flashing cursor. So, when I took it to the shop, you could at least power the laptop on and see the operating system. When I got it home it seems to be infinitely worse. 

 

The laptop sat in my drawer for a year.

 

Now, my spare laptop is on its last legs and I would like to get the Lenovo repaired.

 

My wife has just been to Bangkok to visit her sister for a few days (we live in Ubon), and took the laptop to MBK. She found a shop owned by what she described as a "nice Indian guy he looks like he might be quite clever with computers". After a quick inspection, Gupta said the motherboard was probably fried, he said he could repair it in 3 to 4 hours. 

 

Four days later and after a barrage of unanswered text messages saying "hello can you please update me" he finally called and said "cannot".

 

My wife tried to find out what, exactly, the problem is with the laptop, but in a similar vein to Somchai in Ubon, he just kept repeating the words "cannot".

 

I am not making this up, by the way. Two separate incompetent idiots. Two separate "cannots". No further diagnosis, explanation, information was given. Just a simple "cannot".

 

You would think after having the laptop for 4 days stripping it apart and checking the component parts, they would be able to arrive at a conclusion as to what the problem is? Is that a reasonable assumption? Knowing very little about computers, I cannot say with complete confidence, but I was under the impression that "cannot" is not a technical diagnosis that you would reasonably expect? I would have expected something like "the motherboard is broken and we cannot find a new replacement" or something along those lines. That's a fair expectation, isn't it?

 

I am determined to get this sodding laptop repaired. Could somebody please explain to me like I am a 5-year-old, what exactly there is that can go wrong with a computer? Surely there are only a few things that can actually go wrong in a devastating way? I would think it is either the motherboard, the memory, or the drive? Maybe the power supply? My point is, is it reasonable to expect a computer engineer to look at a broken laptop and report back with specific list of things that is wrong with it? 

 

I really loved that laptop. It was the nicest laptop I ever owned. I can't remember exactly how much I paid for it but I think it was about 28,000 THB, so you would expect more than 2 years use out of it but more to the point, I just really like the laptop, and I would just really love to use it again. Business hasn't been great for a year or two and I would prefer to get this laptop fixed for let's say under 8000, than spend 25 to 30,000 on a similar quality replacement.

 

My gut tells me that my inability to get this repaired owes to incompetence on the engineers part, and not the fact that it is broken beyond all repair?

 

Or is the hole "cannot" thing something that just happens occasionally with computer repair?

 

I am perplexed. I cannot imagine any other scenario where it plays out like this. Imagine, for example, going to the doctors for a full checkup and the doctor saying to you "I'm sorry mate but you are really really sick and you're going to die in 2 months", upon asking the doctor what exactly is wrong with me, he just stares at me blankly and says "cannot". 

 

"What is it doctor my heart? My liver? Do I have cancer? Why am I about to shuffle off this mortal coil?" 

 

"No idea..... Just, you know, cannot."

 

Or having a mechanic look at your two-year-old car that is immobile, who tells you with a goofy expression that your car will never work again. On asking him what exactly is wrong with the car he just looks at you and says "cannot".

 

Again, am I being unreasonable in those comparisons? 

 

Surely a computer engineer would be able to look at a laptop and say to you with confidence that it is either this this or this?

[NanLaew]

28 minutes ago, Batty said:

Could somebody please explain to me like I am a 5-year-old, what exactly there is that can go wrong with a computer?

Cannot.

[marin]

Quite a book you wrote. 

[save the frogs]

I would try replacing the battery. If it's an old model, it may be difficult to find? Not sure. Check online. 

 

It could be just the power cord. I had issues with a power cord once. Try a new power cord.

 

Other than that, no clue. 

 

[NextG]

Neither of you came up with the idea of taking/sending it to an OFFICIAL Lenovo service centre…

Do you imagine they don’t fix things when they are out of warranty?

[OneMoreFarang]

42 minutes ago, Batty said:

 

I took it to a local somchai style repair shop

Why would you do that with a nice Lenovo when you can ask Lenovo what the problem is?

It is unlikely that Somchai was trained by Lenovo. Somchai was also not trained by Mercedes or Miele. This is why it's a good idea to avoid Somchai. 

[NextG]

What’s wrong with the ‘spare’ laptop? Exact model?

[NanLaew]

There's a component called a mosfet (Metal Oxide Silicon Field Effect Transistor) on the power input side of laptop motherboard that is designed to auto-detect power surges and block the supply voltage being input thus saving the 'guts' of the machine. They are like an automatically resetting fuse. Remove power and it resets ready for the next power-on cycle. They are on the input from the charger AND the inputs from the built-in battery. Mosfets by their nature are susceptible to failure when their own minimal protections fail.

 

These devices are not immune to failure and when they do, the result can be the 'brick' like the OP got back from the first 'technician'. I would hazard that this component(s) was possibly 'on the way out' when the OP tells us that the first symptom was random but recoverable 'freezing'.

 

These components, there can be up to a half a dozen or more, are tiny and are SMD or 'surface mounted devices' with up to eight sub-miniature solder connections. This means their removal and/or replacement can't be done easily with conventional tools. Furthermore, removal/replacement may not easily guaranteed due to the varying designs and layout of motherboards. Also know that there's probably a charging IC (Integrated Circuit) that has logic to determine battery versus external power. These too can fail and are even harder to replace due to having many more sub-miniature solder connections.

 

I am assuming that both 'technicians' were aware of the fifty-fifty success rate but went ahead and told the customer what he wants to hear by taking on the job first. After several hours faffing about, they find that either these components are not easily replaced OR, as may be the case of the first 'technician', he's probably gone and buggerd up something else.

 

The only 100% solution I see is for the motherboard to be completely replaced. This motherboard is probably out of production but one can search on eBay for the same model laptop. Look for one that may be being sold for spares, hopefully with an "screen smashed, motherboard good" notice. I have done that in the past when repairing legacy laptops.

 

Good luck.

[soi3eddie]

5 minutes ago, NextG said:

Neither of you came up with the idea of taking/sending it to an OFFICIAL Lenovo service centre…

Do you imagine they don’t fix things when they are out of warranty?

My thoughts exactly. First call would have been to Lenovo Customer service (I also have a similar, fault free model since 2017). Very good laptop. 

 

When my daily workhorse Dell needed a new battery last month, I contacted Dell Thailand. They were great with quote for on-site service. The only thing they couldn't do was give me a date more specific than "1-2 weeks". As I was travelling, I couldn't be sure of being at home so decided to do it myself. Researched online, bought a battery from a reputable dealer on Lazada and the tools needed. At a cost half of the Dell price and I had it replaced in 3 days.

 

[Yellowtail]

To me, a three-year-old laptop that's sketchy should be replaced, unless it's just for play. When I was working, they got replaced every two years by the company. 

 

Why did you (apparently) not get a quote from Lenovo? 

[Lacessit]

The fault may not necessarily be hardware. I had a laptop with some version of Windows that got thoroughly skunked by a virus. The technician ( in Australia ) told me I was better off buying a new laptop, than attempting to replace the hard drive and motherboard.

[NextG]

Also you might take note that there were class action lawsuits with regard to the Lenovo Yoga 520 gimmicky nonsense, wherein folding it into Tablet Mode causes the cable connecting the screen to fray and break, rendering symptoms such as flickering, freezing, blackout etc

Edited April 2, 2023 by NextG

[NextG]

If the clowns to whom you gave it didn’t break it completely, it should still work with an external monitor. 

[NanLaew]

49 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why would you do that with a nice Lenovo when you can ask Lenovo what the problem is?

It is unlikely that Somchai was trained by Lenovo. Somchai was also not trained by Mercedes or Miele. This is why it's a good idea to avoid Somchai. 

Laptop schmaptop, they're all variations on a theme. In the same way as a Honda-trained mechanic will have no problems working on a Toyota when he quits for more money or better conditions... and vice versa. If your car goes tits-up and is out of warranty, do you take it to the dealership?

 

BTW, my name isn't Somchai.

[NanLaew]

30 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

To me, a three-year-old laptop that's sketchy should be replaced, unless it's just for play. When I was working, they got replaced every two years by the company. 

 

Why did you (apparently) not get a quote from Lenovo? 

When I was working for Aramco, they reimbursed us for a new laptop every year. When I subsequently worked with the Norwegian Petroleum Directorate, they replaced our corporate issue Dell's every two years.

 

Later, when I set up an independent consultant, I made sure MY laptop had an extended global warranty and get as much out of that 5-years (and beyond) as possible.

[Batty]

1 hour ago, NextG said:

Neither of you came up with the idea of taking/sending it to an OFFICIAL Lenovo service centre…

Do you imagine they don’t fix things when they are out of warranty?

You obviously have never contacted Lenovo for a problem like that. I did, and they said 3 months average wait time. I assumed Somchai would be 2 months and 29 days quicker. 

[Batty]

39 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

To me, a three-year-old laptop that's sketchy should be replaced, unless it's just for play. When I was working, they got replaced every two years by the company. 

 

Why did you (apparently) not get a quote from Lenovo? 

I did. They said 3 months. You make a fair point - but I didn't use it too much during those two years. I used my desktop at home and the laptop when out and about, maybe twice a week. Holidays. That kind of thing. 

[Batty]

56 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

There's a component called a mosfet (Metal Oxide Silicon Field Effect Transistor) on the power input side of laptop motherboard that is designed to auto-detect power surges and block the supply voltage being input thus saving the 'guts' of the machine. They are like an automatically resetting fuse. Remove power and it resets ready for the next power-on cycle. They are on the input from the charger AND the inputs from the built-in battery. Mosfets by their nature are susceptible to failure when their own minimal protections fail.

 

These devices are not immune to failure and when they do, the result can be the 'brick' like the OP got back from the first 'technician'. I would hazard that this component(s) was possibly 'on the way out' when the OP tells us that the first symptom was random but recoverable 'freezing'.

 

These components, there can be up to a half a dozen or more, are tiny and are SMD or 'surface mounted devices' with up to eight sub-miniature solder connections. This means their removal and/or replacement can't be done easily with conventional tools. Furthermore, removal/replacement may not easily guaranteed due to the varying designs and layout of motherboards. Also know that there's probably a charging IC (Integrated Circuit) that has logic to determine battery versus external power. These too can fail and are even harder to replace due to having many more sub-miniature solder connections.

 

I am assuming that both 'technicians' were aware of the fifty-fifty success rate but went ahead and told the customer what he wants to hear by taking on the job first. After several hours faffing about, they find that either these components are not easily replaced OR, as may be the case of the first 'technician', he's probably gone and buggerd up something else.

 

The only 100% solution I see is for the motherboard to be completely replaced. This motherboard is probably out of production but one can search on eBay for the same model laptop. Look for one that may be being sold for spares, hopefully with an "screen smashed, motherboard good" notice. I have done that in the past when repairing legacy laptops.

 

Good luck.

Amazing reply - appreciate it, thanks. 

[Batty]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Laptop schmaptop, they're all variations on a theme. In the same way as a Honda-trained mechanic will have no problems working on a Toyota when he quits for more money or better conditions... and vice versa. If your car goes tits-up and is out of warranty, do you take it to the dealership?

 

BTW, my name isn't Somchai.

If my vehicle dealership was located 400 miles away and quoted 3 months, I would take my car to local Somchai ????

[Batty]

1 hour ago, NextG said:

What’s wrong with the ‘spare’ laptop? Exact model?

Its a Dell something or other. Its old - maybe 6 years - I'm not even going to bother getting it repaired. The Lenovo though, I really like it. 

[Batty]

1 hour ago, marin said:

Quite a book you wrote. 

Not really. Unless you are reading books that take 90 seconds to read. 

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, Batty said:

Amazing reply - appreciate it, thanks. 

No worries. My then 8 year-old ASUS laptop that had growing USB and keyboard issues got a new lease of life when I replaced the original i5 powered mobo with a used i7 one off eBay. Cost $180 incl. shipping and, because I was being a bit kihk-yet, I got 'Somchai' here to install it for 800 baht . When I subsequently upgraded it to W10, it was like a total new lease of life. Now it's 12 years old and has developed a thin vertical cyan strip on the LCD (but of course that doesn't show on external monitor) thus it has been officially retired as the traveling workhorse.

Edited April 2, 2023 by NanLaew

[NextG]

34 minutes ago, Batty said:

You obviously have never contacted Lenovo for a problem like that. I did, and they said 3 months average wait time. I assumed Somchai would be 2 months and 29 days quicker. 

So tell us how long it has been since you took it to ‘Somchai’…

 

So far I just see you making bad decisions. 
 

Firstly buying a gimmicky laptop. 
Secondly not being patient and getting Lenovo to fix it. 
Thirdly, giving it to Somchai. 
Fourthly, the Bangkok episode and now fifthly, dismissing any discussion about the current DELL without even discussing what can be done to bring it up to scratch whilst you are waiting for LENOVO to fix the laptop. 

It seems that you are a victim of your own behaviour. 

 

[BangkokReady]

Chances are they are simply not interested in fixing it. 

 

Not worth the time or not worth the money so just lie. ????‍♂️

 

Not uncommon in Thailand, unfortunately.

[brianthainess]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Cannot.

I now have to clean my keyboard, from the coffee i just spat out. 

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

The fault may not necessarily be hardware. I had a laptop with some version of Windows that got thoroughly skunked by a virus. The technician ( in Australia ) told me I was better off buying a new laptop, than attempting to replace the hard drive and motherboard.

Why did that Aussie Techie not say 'Do a complete re-install of Windows after wiping the disk clean'? The hard drive is so easy to replace, with an SSD hopefully, and the mobo does not 'store' any so-called viruses but a re-install of the Bios would be worth it.. The RAM 'forgets' as soon as power is removed.

[Furioso]

I had the same thing happen to my brand new laptop, tried to get it fixed at 3 different repair shops. Basically, what Nanlaew wrote is 100% correct. If one of the Mosfet's on your motherboard fails, then high voltage will probably destroy the CPU(or the Platform Controller Hub), the "heart" of any computer. 

 

In short, it's very possible one of the mosfet's on your laptop failed and fried your motherboard. You have to find a replacement motherboard, which can be very difficult or too expensive. Honestly I think laptop manufacturer's do this on purpose to keep people spending more and more on laptops.

 

Unless you travel a lot I would suggest buying a mini-pc for under 20,000 baht instead of a laptop. That's the setup I have now, a mini-pc with a wireless keyboard and mouse, connected to an HDTV via HDMI cable. 

[connda]

Let me make it really simple for you.  Buy a new computer.  Problem solved.

[djayz]

I have found out, the hard way, to keep a backup of all important documents on either an external hard drive or in a Cloud. That way, when these devices fail, which they inevitably do with time, you don't lose your documents, photos, etc. Simply replace the old laptop with a new one and you're good to go. 

 

Sometimes it is less expensive, less time consuming and less frustrating to simply accept that gadgets break and when they do, just get a new one. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Batty said:

If my vehicle dealership was located 400 miles away and quoted 3 months, I would take my car to local Somchai ????

Your right but Somchai does not seem able to fix is so lenevo would be a better bet. Just my opinion. You tried 2 times and it failed. Id go for Lenovo.