Behavior On Golf Courses

[mighty]

On the golf course this week I had the misfortune to be there at the same time as a so called group of golfers. These were the Hua-Hin golf society, although hooligans would have been more suitable. The shouting across the course from one tee to another (on different 9's) and the general ignorance, ie standing around the tee box checking their start list while you are trying to hit off etc, loud laughter from their tee box while we were on an adjacent green.

Mind you, what would you expect from a society that had the temerity to ban a member who had asked to see the accounts, probably because he wondered why the committee had to be so pompous to take a seperate mini-bus on a recent golf trip, although there were ample seats available on the big bus.

[chuckd]

This sounds like a personal problem to me. Do we really want it here in our golf thread?

[mighty]

Your pathetic response leads me to believe you are a member of said society & upset about it??? "our" golf section???? do you think nobody else is capable of submitting topic's or god forbid something that might upset people.

It is not personal as I have never played with that society, and I dont live in Hua-Hin. It was an observation of bad behavior that should not occur on the golf course by a group of golfers who should know better. IF, as it sounds , you are prepared to accept that as normal then carry on, but I'm not prepared to accept that as normal, and this forum is one place I can vent my anger about it.

Keep your snobbish responses to yourself next time

[chuckd]

When you post in an open forum, then you should expect answers. If the answers are not to your liking, I would strongly suggest you take your childish whimpering to another venue where you might expect some pity.

You won't get it from me.

I am not part of this venue that so wronged you. I have never been to Hua Hin. However, to me, you sound like the "banned" member that couldn't get on the bus.

The only thing "mighty" about you is your mouth. If you don't want my "snobbish" answers, quit making immature posts.

[Dr. Burrito]

Also, and this is not meant personal, but from what you said in your original post about 'banning a member' you display a huge amount of knowledge of them, which was led Chuckd to post what he did I am sure.

In any event, if you are being straight, then refer to my Japanese rant thread for solutions :-)

Dr. B

[mighty]

Looking for pity??? don't know why you would say that, I have merely stated some facts about what I saw at the golf course, nothing more. You seem to have a hard time understanding the facts, I am not a member, and I never said nobody could get on a bus?

If you see it as childish that is because I brought it down to your level for you to understand, obviously it didn't work. Stay out of the sun, it's beginning to affect your brain.

I have a friend who was once a member, but he joined an alternative society. However that is not the point of the thread.

[chuckd]

I see no further point in this. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.

[Huw]

I see no further point in this. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.

Hmmm. The behaviour described by the OP seems pretty bad basic etiquette to me, personal problem or not. Not sure why the flames.

H

[curber]

I find it amazing that some golfers find anyone making any noise on a golf course is poor behavior.I find boorish behavior in bad taste where ever it happens, but golfers go a little overboard.Lord forbid someone laugh or actually have fun playing this game and I stress GAME,which to me means it isn`t all that important ...it is supposed to be a way for us to relax and get away from the stress in our lives..I do take my golf game fairly seriosly...I play 3 times a week and play to around a 10 cap but I don`t get mad on the course because some yahoos are making noise on the next fairway nor do I blame them for the shank I just hit.I find the worse the golfer the more they blame anything but they`re own shortcomings for poor play..I`ve played with people that get mad when a bird makes noise ....get over it ...most of us don`t make a living in this sport and will never be as good as we are in our own mind ...jai yen yen...this is supposed to be relaxation.

[richard_smith237]

Playing 2 ball on a week day at Muang Kaew Golf

Walking from 9th Green to 10th Tee off.

A 4 ball with golf carts and 2 caddies each drives past us in carts and approaches the 10th tee. (they have just jumped two holes and nipped in, in front of us).

It was one of those afternoons where we had tee'd off late and had limited time to complete the round before darkness fell. We’d been held up in typical fashion by a couple of 4 balls in front of us, who at the 9th Tee had completed their round playing the back nine first. We needed to make haste to complete our round.

A 4 ball in carts jumping in front of us without asking or even acknowledging our presence was rather irritating. Walking straight up to the tee and teeing up my ball ready for my drive, astonished looks were past amongst the group attempting to jump in.

The marshal was very quick to arrive and I pointed out that I am not accepting a 4 ball to drive up and jump in front of us, particularly as we are mid-round.

Very quickly the group were moved on and they just drove off to another Tee.

Good Marshals are good, but all too often they let things like this slide and my round is often delayed heavily as a result.

Is it me, or do other people get the impression that approximately half the people on the golf courses over here assume that because they can afford golf, think they are big-shots who can do whatever they want on a golf course ?

There is also a flip side to this and there are many pleasant people out there on the courses and all we see of them are a polite nod while passing, or a brief how's your day chat at a drinks stop.

Edited July 9, 2007 by richard_smith237

[Huw]

I find it amazing that some golfers find anyone making any noise on a golf course is poor behavior.I find boorish behavior in bad taste where ever it happens, but golfers go a little overboard.Lord forbid someone laugh or actually have fun playing this game and I stress GAME,which to me means it isn`t all that important ...it is supposed to be a way for us to relax and get away from the stress in our lives..I do take my golf game fairly seriosly...I play 3 times a week and play to around a 10 cap but I don`t get mad on the course because some yahoos are making noise on the next fairway nor do I blame them for the shank I just hit.I find the worse the golfer the more they blame anything but they`re own shortcomings for poor play..I`ve played with people that get mad when a bird makes noise ....get over it ...most of us don`t make a living in this sport and will never be as good as we are in our own mind ...jai yen yen...this is supposed to be relaxation.

Fully agree. Doesn't mean we have to condone the behaviour though, or that a modest grumble in here is out of place.

[jumnien]

Grumbling Old Lads Forever!

[Huw]

Playing 2 ball on a week day at Muang Kaew Golf

Walking from 9th Green to 10th Tee off.

A 4 ball with golf carts and 2 caddies each drives past us in carts and approaches the 10th tee. (they have just jumped two holes and nipped in, in front of us).

It was one of those afternoons where we had tee'd off late and had limited time to complete the round before darkness fell. We’d been held up in typical fashion by a couple of 4 balls in front of us, who at the 9th Tee had completed their round playing the back nine first. We needed to make haste to complete our round.

A 4 ball in carts jumping in front of us without asking or even acknowledging our presence was rather irritating. Walking straight up to the tee and teeing up my ball ready for my drive, astonished looks were past amongst the group attempting to jump in.

The marshal was very quick to arrive and I pointed out that I am not accepting a 4 ball to drive up and jump in front of us, particularly as we are mid-round.

Very quickly the group were moved on and they just drove off to another Tee.

Sounds a bit vexing...

Good Marshals are good, but all too often they let things like this slide and my round is often delayed heavily as a result.

Is it me, or do other people get the impression that approximately half the people on the golf courses over here assume that because they can afford golf, think they are big-shots who can do whatever they want on a golf course ?

I dont think its that so much as many Thais (perhaps the majority) just dont have any perception of the needs of other people. This explains their behaviour while driving and when in company. It used to be called having a low emotional IQ but I believe it is more an educational and cultural issue. Most Thais are obsessed with self and nobody else actually gets air time. Also bear in mind that the average IQ of kids here is less than 88 (compared with 100 commonly accepted as a 'normal' level). There is no reason to suppose the average IQ of adults is any higher so they probably just don't have the reasoning power to work out the consequences of what they are doing. Most Thais appear to focus only on the emotion or the purpose of the moment and cannot see outside of that particular tunnel. harsh words I know, and not politically correct, but I maintain it explains quite a lot.

Proof of this concept is in the reactions when you tee'd up. The interlopers were probably horrified, and may even have been genuinely bewildered as to what could have caused such an outrage. But they will not have attributed responsibility to themselves in any way. The Thai is known to be highly ego orientated and admitting a balls-up or a faux-pas is anathema.

Check the behaviour on roads and you will see what I mean. Crass stupidity and incompetence by the drivers and the police explains what I would estimate as 60% of the traffic problems in BKK.

There is also a flip side to this and there are many pleasant people out there on the courses and all we see of them are a polite nod while passing, or a brief how's your day chat at a drinks stop.

yep. Sadly, according to my experience, these will be in a minority.

H

Edited July 9, 2007 by Huw

[GezT]

This sounds like a personal problem to me. Do we really want it here in our golf thread?

Up yours and your "Golf Thread". These forums are for airing views, opinions, incidents and basically anything you want. So get your head out of your arse and lighten up Nobby!

[chuckd]

This sounds like a personal problem to me. Do we really want it here in our golf thread?

Up yours and your "Golf Thread". These forums are for airing views, opinions, incidents and basically anything you want. So get your head out of your arse and lighten up Nobby!

Airing my view was exactly what I was doing....Nobby!

[madjbs]

Huw

Not politically correct and actually verging on racist. All that your comments explain are the type of person you are.

[Luckydog]

This sounds like a personal problem to me. Do we really want it here in our golf thread?

Up yours and your "Golf Thread". These forums are for airing views, opinions, incidents and basically anything you want. So get your head out of your arse and lighten up Nobby!

GOLF? Spoils a good walk!

[Huw]

Huw

Not politically correct and actually verging on racist. All that your comments explain are the type of person you are.

Hmm. So what I said is wrong then? Like many PC fetishists, you avoid the substance and attack the delivery.

Political correctness is a nonsense concept designed solely to misrepresent things so that poor sweet precious egos aren't offended by truth. Which in Thailand is a major part of the problem and not a part of the solution.

Perhaps your PC attitude tells us a bit about you.

H

Edited July 10, 2007 by Huw

[kiakaha]

On the golf course this week I had the misfortune to be there at the same time as a so called group of golfers. These were the Hua-Hin golf society, although hooligans would have been more suitable. The shouting across the course from one tee to another (on different 9's) and the general ignorance, ie standing around the tee box checking their start list while you are trying to hit off etc, loud laughter from their tee box while we were on an adjacent green.

Mind you, what would you expect from a society that had the temerity to ban a member who had asked to see the accounts, probably because he wondered why the committee had to be so pompous to take a seperate mini-bus on a recent golf trip, although there were ample seats available on the big bus.

what course ? public or private , exclusive or open to all riff raff ? you get what you pay for, this is generally true for all golf courses around the world.

[Dr. Burrito]

Very few courses in this country not open to someone that can pay the green fee, so can't say the same applies here as other places.

Dr. B

[madjbs]

Perhaps what you say is correct for some Thai people you know, however I doubt you know the whole population so saying everyone is stupid, has a low IQ, selfish in my opinion is RACIST, you’re just using your stupid little PC argument as an EXCUSE.

As it happens I'm not PC either but that certainly doesn’t mean I'm racist like you. Don’t get the two things muddled up.

I haven’t attacked your "substance" as quite frankly I cant be bothered using my time to write a lengthy argument to somebody I don’t believe is going to change.

I don’t have anything more to say, you have shown everyone what your like (I'm fairly sure you would have many more replies like this if this wasnt in the golf forum).

Goodbye

Edited July 11, 2007 by madjbs

[Huw]

Perhaps what you say is correct for some Thai people you know, however I doubt you know the whole population so saying everyone is stupid, has a low IQ, selfish in my opinion is RACIST,

And since you dont know the whole population either you cannot say I am wrong.

you’re just using your stupid little PC argument as an EXCUSE.

As I recall. you were the one who introduced political correctness. Frankly the whole idea is so devalued I would have more dignity that to do so though I don't mind shooting the odd poser down in flames...

As it happens I'm not PC either

You just like to tell people *they* aren't eh? Hypocritical much?

but that certainly doesn’t mean I'm racist like you. Don’t get the two things muddled up.

I am sorry, but muddled seems to be something you can do on your own so perhaps I should strive for clarity.

I haven’t attacked your "substance" as quite frankly I cant be bothered using my time to write a lengthy argument to somebody I don’t believe is going to change.

Or because you can't. One of the two for sure eh? Try not to confuse an absence of facts with a choice not to quote any.

I don’t have anything more to say

Well, that's progress at least.

you have shown everyone what your like

Really? How's that? I thought I only expressed a qualified opinion, backed up as I recall by government statistics. Or did you miss that bit in your headlong rush to prove your Thai-o-phile credentials? Still, look on the bright side, at least one of our opinions is supported by facts.

(I'm fairly sure you would have many more replies like this if this wasnt in the golf forum).

So everyone agrees with you but is too polite to say so? Which makes you impolite? And this somehow means you win the hole? Interesting logic you have there Sparky.

I thought you didn't have anything else to say... underestimated your own capacity for bullshit it seems.

Goodbye

A goodbye and not an au revoir with any luck.

[madjbs]

:D:burp: Edited July 11, 2007 by madjbs

[kiakaha]

Very few courses in this country not open to someone that can pay the green fee, so can't say the same applies here as other places.

Dr. B

Elite/exclusive course in Thailand you have to be a member or guest of a member. Not open to walk on public.Amata Springs comes to mind.

Most top end courses that are open to walk on public, Blue Canyon comes to mind, are usually priced prohibitively to deter your stamp on arrival, beer guzzling louts. The more serious golfer who has a sound understanding of etiquette is more likely to be par for the course here.No pun intended.

[slapout]

The IQ number used by HUW was a published figure by the education ministry??? in the local newspaper a few weeks back. This was later said to have been increased to 100 as per more recent tests. I tend to believe the former and if this is correct what HUW is saying does have a ring of truth, although I would expect the people on a golf course to be better educated than the norm. That said, I am not a expert on human behavior or what causes it.

[Huw]

The IQ number used by HUW was a published figure by the education ministry??? in the local newspaper a few weeks back. This was later said to have been increased to 100 as per more recent tests. I tend to believe the former and if this is correct what HUW is saying does have a ring of truth, although I would expect the people on a golf course to be better educated than the norm. That said, I am not a expert on human behavior or what causes it.

Cheers slapout. Another voice of reason.

The fugures were indeed quoted by the education ministry, firstly last year, when the poor results were blamed on bad nutrition during pregnancy, then this year when they were blamed on faulty sampling.

The Thais will never admit they get things wrong of course, but the real culprit is to be found in the education system and underlying that, the whole Thai culture which actually discourages reasoning and therefore intellectual development. After all, the major difference between humans and other species is the frontal cortex of the brain, which is the location of reasoning processes. We are meant to think rationally and abstractly, and when culture opposes this ability, it must be seen as an aberration to be corrected.

Of course this much has no bearing on golf other than one guy appeared to confuse facts with prejudice and attacked me for actually quoting some. What it does mean however, is that Thais are still very backward in their development of cognition skills; a colleague of mine suggested they are not yet at the Piaget scale point of Formal Operations (characterised by the ability to think in abstract form). If he is right (and I can see support for his point), then the average Thai is about as mature emotionally and intellectually as a 12-year old in the West. Of course this is a generalisation and will not include those with a western education or those gifted Thais who are in the top quartile of intelligence (however it is measured). Consider however their obsession with 'face' and you will see parallels with pubescent children in the West who are also similarly ego-oriented but who grow out of it as they develop. If you look at Thai entertainment, you will see a very clear similarity to entertainment in the west about 40-50 years ago, a similarity which also extends to their 'high class' dress fashions. The last time I saw a twin-set (for example) was in the 1960's, though you can see them almost every day on Thai soaps. Also, the Thai fascination with men dressing up as women and with 'zany' behaviour recalls the 1960's and 70's in the west, when social norms and conventions were being challenged.

The norm on the Thai population bell curve of intelligence appears to be shifted towards the lower end by a large amount. This ought to be a worry for the whole country but it wont be. They will just keep taking the survey until they get the answer they want. Nature of the beast.

So what doe this have to do with golf? Nothing with golf, but everything to do with behaviour on the golf course to the extents that I already suggested. The average Thai-educated Thai has no idea of the impact of his actions on other people, indeed, the needs and expectations of others have very little impact in the Richter scale of the Thai educated Thai's life, especially if there are 'class ' issues (another similarity to the west about 50 years ago, when class divisions still assumed a great importance).

Conclusion: it is not reasonable to expect Thais to conform to western standards of golf etiquette. If they can and do, great but in general, the mores simply don't register and are overwhelmed by the inclinations and ego-centred needs of the moment. There are exceptions of course and many who can afford to play golf have exposure to and have adopted western standards of etiquette. Perhaps this is why the OP noticed the poor etiquette and remarked upon it as an exception.

All I have to say on this subject I think because it has gone a bit off-topic, I have seen poor behaviour on golf course in UK too but not so often and not indulged in such an obvious and shameless way as by Thais, not on non-municipal courses anyway. I was however interested in the attacks made on the OP for stating his opinion, and those on me for stating demonstrable (though apparently unpalatable) facts. But then I expect there are people who feel perfectly at home in a somewhat backward society.

H

Edited July 12, 2007 by Huw

[Jai Dee]

If there are any more flames against other members or racist comment, offenders will suspended from the forum.

Be warned.

[Neeranam]

Your pathetic response leads me to believe you are a member of said society & upset about it??? "our" golf section???? do you think nobody else is capable of submitting topic's or god forbid something that might upset people.

It is not personal as I have never played with that society, and I dont live in Hua-Hin. It was an observation of bad behavior that should not occur on the golf course by a group of golfers who should know better. IF, as it sounds , you are prepared to accept that as normal then carry on, but I'm not prepared to accept that as normal, and this forum is one place I can vent my anger about it.

Keep your snobbish responses to yourself next time

you tell him mate.

[Pundi64]

Boys - boys - boys, come on guys, this is supposed to be a gentlemans game, LOL!

[Payboy]

...are usually priced prohibitively to deter your stamp on arrival, beer guzzling louts....

i am not sure that green fees are related in any way to course etiquette...

unless i misunderstood something, are u suggesting that the poor are not well mannered?