Executor of expat will duties

[amexpat]

Quote

How does an executor of an expat's will proceed? Is legal help needed to dispose of assets? 

Obviously this is not Chiang Mai specific but more appropriate forum are grayed out in the selection dropdown. 
Mods please move as needed. 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

"How does an executor of an expat's will proceed? Is legal help needed to dispose of assets?" 

 

Yes.

https://www.siam-legal.com/legal_services/thailand-last-will-and-testament-faqs.php

 

Do I need to nominate an executor in my Thai will?
An executor is a critical figure in the distribution of an estate in Thailand. They should ideally reside in Thailand since they will be required to attend the Thai court. Their identity and role should be made fully explicit in the will and it is best to ensure they understand and are willing and able to meet their obligations in advance. The naming of a substitute executor in the will is also a prudent measure.

 

I am the executor/beneficiary of a Thai will. How long does it usually take for an executor to be appointed?
The appointment of an executor can only be made by an order of the Thai court. Following an initial application to the court, there will usually be a hearing approximately 60 - 120 days later to appoint the executor. It should be noted that the executor needs to be physically present at this hearing to provide evidence to the court. Usually within 30 – 60 days of this hearing, and on the basis there has been no appeals by any other interested party, the court will grant a final order.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[CharlieKo]

You have to get probate over the will. This document gives you the legal right to execute the will according to the deceased's wishes. If this includes assets in another country. You will need to apply for probate in that country also. Here in Thailand, you would probably find it easier to get a lawyer to help. 

[PeachCH]

You can deposit your last will against a fee at your embassy 

[Dante99]

54 minutes ago, PeachCH said:

You can deposit your last will against a fee at your embassy 

Which embassies?  Certainly not all.

[crazykopite]

The whole thing is a pain in the backside  a good friend who passed 18 months ago gave me his Will several years before his death he never mentioned to me that I was his executor so it came as a shock when I opened up his will and read the contents 18 months on and I’m in the process of going to the court it was a simple enough Will everything he owned going to a certain Thai family . In the U.K. if I’m executor of a Will there is no need for me to go to court I just take care of everything myself I was never aware that here in Thailand it’s completely opposite . The one thing I have learnt is that I now leave as little as possible in my Thai bank account because trying to get my deceased money from his bank account is like getting blood out of a stone and this has been going on for months and I’m no nearer to having it released one of the conditions is that they want copies of his late parents death certificates he was 72 when he passed it’s like looking for a needle in a hay stack . At least I was able to give away all his household items TV , scooter, computers , beds , which was a considerable amount in money terms I was unaware that I had to go to court I just gave it to them they to had a copy of the will but as I say when it comes to closing his bank account / financials that’s another matter if I am honest it has been months of misery and I’m no nearer to getting it finalised and all this costs time and money ☹️☹️☹️☹️

[newnative]

49 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

The whole thing is a pain in the backside  a good friend who passed 18 months ago gave me his Will several years before his death he never mentioned to me that I was his executor so it came as a shock when I opened up his will and read the contents 18 months on and I’m in the process of going to the court it was a simple enough Will everything he owned going to a certain Thai family . In the U.K. if I’m executor of a Will there is no need for me to go to court I just take care of everything myself I was never aware that here in Thailand it’s completely opposite . The one thing I have learnt is that I now leave as little as possible in my Thai bank account because trying to get my deceased money from his bank account is like getting blood out of a stone and this has been going on for months and I’m no nearer to having it released one of the conditions is that they want copies of his late parents death certificates he was 72 when he passed it’s like looking for a needle in a hay stack . At least I was able to give away all his household items TV , scooter, computers , beds , which was a considerable amount in money terms I was unaware that I had to go to court I just gave it to them they to had a copy of the will but as I say when it comes to closing his bank account / financials that’s another matter if I am honest it has been months of misery and I’m no nearer to getting it finalised and all this costs time and money ☹️☹️☹️☹️

     This is a good example of why I always say know what you are getting into before you agree to be an Executor (and, your friend should have gotten your agreement).  There is often much more work involved than you might think.

[MrMuddle]

1 hour ago, crazykopite said:

The whole thing is a pain in the backside  a good friend who passed 18 months ago gave me his Will several years before his death he never mentioned to me that I was his executor so it came as a shock when I opened up his will and read the contents 18 months on and I’m in the process of going to the court it was a simple enough Will everything he owned going to a certain Thai family . In the U.K. if I’m executor of a Will there is no need for me to go to court I just take care of everything myself I was never aware that here in Thailand it’s completely opposite . The one thing I have learnt is that I now leave as little as possible in my Thai bank account because trying to get my deceased money from his bank account is like getting blood out of a stone and this has been going on for months and I’m no nearer to having it released one of the conditions is that they want copies of his late parents death certificates he was 72 when he passed it’s like looking for a needle in a hay stack . At least I was able to give away all his household items TV , scooter, computers , beds , which was a considerable amount in money terms I was unaware that I had to go to court I just gave it to them they to had a copy of the will but as I say when it comes to closing his bank account / financials that’s another matter if I am honest it has been months of misery and I’m no nearer to getting it finalised and all this costs time and money ☹️☹️☹️☹️

Would it be the same problem with the Banks, for a Thai wife inheriting everything from her foreign husband? Would she need the death certificates of the husband's parents? Asking so I can get these, before I pop my clogs!

[Captor]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

The whole thing is a pain in the backside  a good friend who passed 18 months ago gave me his Will several years before his death he never mentioned to me that I was his executor so it came as a shock when I opened up his will and read the contents 18 months on and I’m in the process of going to the court it was a simple enough Will everything he owned going to a certain Thai family . In the U.K. if I’m executor of a Will there is no need for me to go to court I just take care of everything myself I was never aware that here in Thailand it’s completely opposite . The one thing I have learnt is that I now leave as little as possible in my Thai bank account because trying to get my deceased money from his bank account is like getting blood out of a stone and this has been going on for months and I’m no nearer to having it released one of the conditions is that they want copies of his late parents death certificates he was 72 when he passed it’s like looking for a needle in a hay stack . At least I was able to give away all his household items TV , scooter, computers , beds , which was a considerable amount in money terms I was unaware that I had to go to court I just gave it to them they to had a copy of the will but as I say when it comes to closing his bank account / financials that’s another matter if I am honest it has been months of misery and I’m no nearer to getting it finalised and all this costs time and money ☹️☹️☹️☹️

Very difficult to read your post as you don't seems to like dots or commas? I gave up after 20% reading.

[HarrySeaman]

I went through the process of becoming the executor of a friend who died intestate (i.e. without a will).  It was a long arduous task even though I used an attorney to help.  It involved papers being emailed and sent by mail back and forth to the family in the USA to give me the power of attorney.

To become the executor I had to deal with a Thai court (thank goodness for the attorney).  It took weeks for the court to finally appoint me the executor and the US Embassy to agree that the body should be released from the hospital where my friend passed away.  I had to retrieve the body and oversee the cremation and disposal of most of the ashes - a small portion were sent to the family, which was another difficult task (ask me for details if you want to do this).  I had a Thai couple of friends who gave me incredible help otherwise I wouldn't have know what to do.  Fortunately the deceased left enough money to cover these expenses.

NOTE:  If a US citizen dies outside a hospital the body must be transported to the Police Hospital in Bangkok for an autopsy then the body is stored until the US Embassy releases it, etc.  Naturally all these things must be paid for by the executor or the family.  Don't even ask what happens if the executor or family can't/won't cover the expenses.

My advice is simple:

If there is a will appointing you the executor then get an attorney to help, or at a minimum get some Thai you are close to to help with the funeral.

If there isn't a will appointing you then get the family to appoint an attorney as the executor and let them deal with the details.

Another friend of mine died in a hospital two years ago and left a Thai as his executor - and beneficiary.  Everything was done in about four days.  I also knew the Thai but they didn't even bother to give me a notice about the cremation or disposal of the ashes.  The Thai and her family sold everything they didn't want and disappeared with the money two weeks later.  I'm sure it is gone into booze and gambling by now, with the family to living in a ramshackle hut.

 

[crazykopite]

1 hour ago, MrMuddle said:

Would it be the same problem with the Banks, for a Thai wife inheriting everything from her foreign husband? Would she need the death certificates of the husband's parents? Asking so I can get these, before I pop my clogs!

I would think the answer would be yes you could always give your wife your debit card details and get her to clean out your account asap after you pass it appears from what I was told that this is okay to do 

[kingstonkid]

OK silly question time.

 

How do you handle things if you get a pension form another country or have investments in the country.  Do you need both a thai and Canadian will can the same executor action it?

   

[CMBob]

23 minutes ago, HarrySeaman said:

.......If a US citizen dies outside a hospital the body must be transported to the Police Hospital in Bangkok for an autopsy then the body is stored until the US Embassy releases it, etc.  Naturally all these things must be paid for by the executor or the family.  Don't even ask what happens if the executor or family can't/won't cover the expenses.....

A few comments/corrections regarding death of a US citizen here in Thailand:

(1) Have had a few expat friends die here in Chiangmai and in each case the body remained in the hospital morgue until released (by approval of the applicable embassy/consulate and payment of the hospital charges);

(2) Whether a not an autopsy is required depends on the circumstances (it's not automatic) and, even if the death occurs outside a hospital, that doesn't mean an autopsy is done (again, circumstances).

(3)  If you have a Will in English (or Will in Thai translated into English) and (1) the Will names "X" as the executor, (2) contains language that "X" has full power to handle funeral arrangements, and (3) "X" presents the English version of the Will to the US Consulate (or Embassy as the case may be), they will promptly cease their "next of kin" search and issue their letter okaying the release of the body to "X."

Having a proper Will (in both Thai and English) facilitates both release of the body and handling of the probate procedure. 

 

 

[PeachCH]

6 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Which embassies?  Certainly not all.

Swiss embassy 

[Hugh Jarse]

10 hours ago, PeachCH said:

You can deposit your last will against a fee at your embassy 

Does the British Embassy offer this service?

[MrMuddle]

4 hours ago, CMBob said:

A few comments/corrections regarding death of a US citizen here in Thailand:

(1) Have had a few expat friends die here in Chiangmai and in each case the body remained in the hospital morgue until released (by approval of the applicable embassy/consulate and payment of the hospital charges);

(2) Whether a not an autopsy is required depends on the circumstances (it's not automatic) and, even if the death occurs outside a hospital, that doesn't mean an autopsy is done (again, circumstances).

(3)  If you have a Will in English (or Will in Thai translated into English) and (1) the Will names "X" as the executor, (2) contains language that "X" has full power to handle funeral arrangements, and (3) "X" presents the English version of the Will to the US Consulate (or Embassy as the case may be), they will promptly cease their "next of kin" search and issue their letter okaying the release of the body to "X."

Having a proper Will (in both Thai and English) facilitates both release of the body and handling of the probate procedure. 

 

 

Can you ask for an autopsy not to be done, on religious grounds? I would include it, witnessed in writing, and as part of the will . 

[In Full Agreement]

12 hours ago, PeachCH said:

You can deposit your last will against a fee at your embassy 

 

4 hours ago, PeachCH said:

Swiss embassy 

 

 

Why didn't you say that in the first place instead of implying it's a common practice?

 

[amexpat]

Thank you all for the helpful replies. 

 

I am surprised and very pleased for such response from this group.

[HarrySeaman]

Short update:

 

I have another friend from the USA with failing health, which is common at our ages.  I finally convinced him to get a will and we met with the attorney yesterday.  They gave us the advice that it was best if I was appointed executor.  They also told me to send a copy of the will appointing me as executor to the US Embassy so that they know I am the contact person, not his relatives in the USA.

 

Being executor will allow me to obtain the death certificate (with the attorney's help) as quickly as possible.  Once this is sent to the US Embassy they can send back an approval for the body to be released, for cremation in this case.  We have some common Thai friends that will also help with the process after I get the body release approval.

[jonwilly]

I did my Will 10-11 years ago, with Star Visa.

I had to provide full names and Thai ID for my Executor (Thai citizen) and all the Thais in my will.

Two lawyers rom Star Visa accompanied me to the Ampure Office where will was registered and the Thai national my Executor received the Document which allows him to receive the money from my Thai bank accounts and full authorise him.

John

[JimGant]

On 5/30/2023 at 1:43 PM, jonwilly said:

the Thai national my Executor received the Document which allows him to receive the money from my Thai bank accounts and full authorise him.

Amphur Wills used to allow avoidance of probate -- your executor would just take this Amphur official document to the bank, land office, whatever -- and the designated beneficiary (ies) would collect whatever the Will has designated for his benefit. This 'poor man's Will and probate' was understood by bank managers, land office bosses, etc. The rice farmer had a nice, legal, cheap avenue to handle his estate.

 

Enter the lawyer mafia. The probate fees well-exceeded Will preparation fees. But if Amphur Wills avoided probate, how would the lawyers be able to get money for their Mercede's payments? Ah, put out the word that probate is required by law (nothing in the Civil Code says this) and scare bank managers and such to no longer honor Amphur Wills. This worked, to some degree, although small town bank managers, who knew the parties involved, often still honored Amphur Wills.

 

Anyway, if Amphur Wills won't avoid probate, there's really no need to have one. Yes, it does "register" your Will -- but to what effect? If you still must go through probate, what difference does a registered Will have compared to a non registered Will?

 

Anyway, as discussed on many of these Will threads, just have your beneficiary, likely your wife, who's also your executor, just clean out your bank account(s). If she's co-signatory to these accounts, so much the better (but not a requirement). And if the bank doesn't know of your death (and why would they, if not told), they have no legal obligation to freeze your accounts, so no legal liability. And if it's your beneficiary cleaning out these accounts, who's the aggrieved party (other than the lawyer with no probate fee for his car payment)? No one is going to press charges. So, brief your beneficiary/executor accordingly.

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 5/26/2023 at 7:48 AM, HarrySeaman said:

They also told me to send a copy of the will appointing me as executor to the US Embassy so that they know I am the contact person, not his relatives in the USA.

I've never heard of the US Embassy in Thailand having the practice of in advance accepting and recording Americans' wills and executor designations.

 

That was the advice you got from a (Thai?) attorney. Have you actually tried to accomplish that as yet with the US Embassy?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 5/30/2023 at 1:43 PM, jonwilly said:

Two lawyers rom Star Visa accompanied me to the Ampure Office where will was registered and the Thai national my Executor received the Document which allows him to receive the money from my Thai bank accounts and full authorise him.

 

The problem is, as JimGant alluded to above, this being Thailand, you can never quite know how a bank / bank manager at any given branch is going to respond when you walk in the door with your amphur will.

 

Will they accept it as the basis for releasing the funds. Or, will they tell you they won't release the funds unless you have the will run thru the Thai courts' probate process.

 

I've heard of both responses being provided by Thai banks at different places at different times.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Anyway, as discussed on many of these Will threads, just have your beneficiary, likely your wife, who's also your executor, just clean out your bank account(s). If she's co-signatory to these accounts, so much the better (but not a requirement).

 

There's two ways of approaching that, depending on the person's situation.

 

One is to have the spouse listed as a formal co-accountholder on the account. The one situation where you clearly don't want to do that is if the person is using the account to satisfy Thai Immigration's 400K or 800K deposit requirement, where they basically want solo account holders.

 

The other is to have the spouse listed on the Thai bank book as a kind of silent co-accountholder. The titling of the account on the main page of the bank book remains the same and unchanged. But they add the wife's name elsewhere in the bank book in a way that the bank staff can see, if the need arises. That won't cause any problems with Thai Immigration.

 

But of course, either way, I think Jim's advice above is good advise, about alerting the Thai spouse to the lay of the land legally, and that if you should pass at some point, they should immediately take your bank debit card and withdraw the funds from the account, or even transfer the funds via online banking, if the spouse can know the details for that.

 

And not sit around waiting weeks or months, and having to go to the expense of hiring a Thai attorney to go to court, just to access funds in your bank account.

 

 

[scottiejohn]

50 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The other is to have the spouse listed on the Thai bank book as a kind of silent co-accountholder. The titling of the account on the main page of the bank book remains the same and unchanged. But they add the wife's name elsewhere in the bank book in a way that the bank staff can see, if the need arises. That won't cause any problems with Thai Immigration.

Do you know if that only works with "legal" spouses or can it be extended to people who are just your partner/living with long term?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Do you know if that only works with "legal" spouses or can it be extended to people who are just your partner/living with long term?

 

That's a good question.  I know from personal experience it works with a legal spouse. But I've never tried it with a non spouse.

 

[CMBob]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I've never heard of the US Embassy in Thailand having the practice of in advance accepting and recording Americans' wills and executor designations.

Very good reason you haven't heard of it....it's because they don't do that.

Edit.  After the death, they will accept a valid Will in English that does the things mentioned (naming local executor and preferably explicitly stating that the named executor has full power to handle all funeral arrangements) and then the US Consulate/Embassy will cease the "next-of-kin" search and issue the needed letter to release the body.

Edited June 28, 2023 by CMBob

[scorecard]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:41 AM, PeachCH said:

You can deposit your last will against a fee at your embassy 

Depends on which embassy. Some keep well away from this subject.

[TimeMachine]

My research into this topic has led me to adopt a plan of getting all of my assets out of Thailand the closer I come to death.  Government and non government  offices I visited were not helpful at all and didn't seem interested to help. I can envisage many having headaches over this. What I've done anyway is have a Will written in English as a minimum and left with my partner with video evidence of my wishes even though not admissible just in a case some evil scavengers try anything. I can only imagine a registered lawyer will be able to help my partner present to the court for the all important probate docs to transfer real-estate or cash. I guess I'll be not able to stress about it after I'm dead.  So that's one good thing. Shame on society for not making this easier.  Death is hard enough for society. 

 

Have a nice day all. 

[CMBob]

12 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

..... What I've done anyway is have a Will written in English as a minimum and left with my partner with video evidence of my wishes even though not admissible just in a case some evil scavengers try anything. I can only imagine a registered lawyer will be able to help my partner present to the court for the all important probate docs to transfer real-estate or cash.....

You'd do your partner a favor by also having a second original Will in Thai as either that or an English Will with certified Thai translation will be needed for Thai probate.  The video you refer to may be comforting to your partner but it won't have any effect with a Thai court.

Typically, the Thai probate process takes about 6 months and, presuming you desire to have your partner have adequate funds during that time period, you'll have to figure out some method (separate bank account for the partner, cash in a safe, whatever) to provide for that.  Absent your partner getting lucky that presentation of your Will (in Thai or English with Thai translation) to your bank manager will cause some release of funds up front, your partner will have to wait at least a couple+ months before probate will help to dislodge your bank funds.