Has Immigration lost their mind? Retirement Visa Extension requires a 1 year rental contract?

[NotReallyHere]

A year ago, I received my first retirement visa extension in Hua Hin based, in part, on a 3 month rental contract.  I extended my rental contract for an additional 3 months in Hua Hin once, then I moved to my current province.  I appropriately updated my address in my new province based on a 3 month rental contract.  I extended my three month rental contract once in the new province and here we are, it's time to renew my annual retirement visa extension.  My current landlord is unfamiliar with the visa renewal process, so I took the paperwork to Immigration to verify everything is correct before I went and gathered all the bank account documents.  I was happy when they told me that the house registration and ID card were correct (that was my primary concern), but then they told me they could not extend my retirement visa based on a 3 month rental contract (my third, 3 month contract in the new province).  They require that I have a 1 year rental contract.

 

I told them that it was my plan, in retirement, to travel around Thailand, changing locations every 3, 6 or 9 months based on how much or little I liked my current location.  My current location is becoming a bit boring, so I thought I'd extend my rental contract for 3 months one last time and then move on to some place new.

 

They told me my rental contract has to be for one year and that I could just cancel the rental contract if I wanted to leave early.  I pointed out that the rental contract is between me and the property owner.  Whether I can cancel my current rental contract was not up to immigration, but would be the landlord's option to approve or decline.  If they decline, I am on the hook for a year's worth of rent.  There is no early cancellation provision in my rental agreement.  I am told an early cancellation provision in rental contracts is not common in Thailand.

 

When I asked why I was able to extend my retirement visa in Hua Hin based on a 3 month rental contract, but not at my current province, I was smiled at and told that if I do not like their rules, I was free to pursue my retirement visa extension elsewhere.

 

I do not want to disclose which immigration office is holding me to this standard.  I am wondering if other people are experiencing this.  Do I have any recourse other than quickly changing provinces within the next two weeks?  Will I run into the same 1 year rental contract requirement wherever I end up?  Was my first and only other retirement extension process in Hua Hin just a fluke?

 

Though I don't think it would be to my advantage to make a big official stink about this, still I'm wondering if there is an official complaint or appeals process that would raise the issue to a higher than provincial level authority.

 

Any advice/insight anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.  My visa extension deadline is rapidly approaching...

[RAZZELL]

Get a retirement extension in Pattaya and use an agent.

 

Problem solved.

[patman30]

11 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

I do not want to disclose which immigration office is holding me to this standard.

you should.

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

I do not want to disclose which immigration office is holding me to this standard.

Then your thread has no credibility. 

[ukrules]

19 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

I was smiled at and told that if I do not like their rules, I was free to pursue my retirement visa extension elsewhere.

They're lying to you, name the place.

[NotReallyHere]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Then your thread has no credibility. 

Seriously?  The point of not disclosing is to avoid potential retaliation for the disclosure.  Saving face, etc.  Don't you think immigration officers read this forum?  It would not be difficult to determine who I am if they know the office.

[blackcab]

5 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Seriously?  The point of not disclosing is to avoid potential retaliation for the disclosure.  Saving face, etc.  Don't you think immigration officers read this forum?  It would not be difficult to determine who I am if they know the office.

 

It's OK to name the immigration office. It's not ok to name an individual officer.

 

Requirements do vary between offices. It's OK to let people know what your office requires.

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Don't you think immigration officers read this forum?

Now you are sounding very naive.

Immigration officers do not bother with ASEAN NOW.

 

Various immigration offices NOT officers are discussed every day.

 

Look at the replies so far are stating "name the office".

 

It's the only way to obtain informed replies.

Even better if from a poster using same office.

 

BTW: the immigration officer asking for one year lease is ridiculous.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by DrJack54

[worgeordie]

All my time doing extensions at Chiang Mai Immigration, I have never been asked for

a rental contract ...of any kind or duration. it would be nice if all offices had the same

rules and policies , we know they dont ,and in fact make do make their own up , for

whatever reason.......

 

regards worgeordie

[Plern]

I'm surprised the op thinks this is a thing. Most (all) of us produce one year leases. Why would op think that he should be given a one year extension based on a three month contract? The idea is to nail you down. What good would the 90 day report be? This seems common sensical to me. Just because I chanced it before means I should always be given this favor forever and at a place of my choosing. Not exactly reality based thinking. If for no other reason we all know how arbitrary all this is.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Plern

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Seriously?  The point of not disclosing is to avoid potential retaliation for the disclosure.  Saving face, etc.  Don't you think immigration officers read this forum?  It would not be difficult to determine who I am if they know the office.

Do you really think the people working at immigration spend their free time perusing English speaking chat-boards?

 

 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Seriously?  The point of not disclosing is to avoid potential retaliation for the disclosure.  Saving face, etc.  Don't you think immigration officers read this forum?  It would not be difficult to determine who I am if they know the office.

I'm sure some immigration people do read this forum. This was discussed here many years ago.  Likely policy maker types at a higher level to get a feel for what the great unwashed f-rangettis are thinking and doing. Yes, stuff they read here can be used against us.

As far as your personal concern at a provincial office, not likely a problem. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Jingthing

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Plern said:

I'm surprised the op thinks this is a thing. Most (all) of us produce one year leases. Why would op think that he should be given a one year extension based on a three month contract?

Because no immigration office that I'm aware of has a one year lease requirement.

 

The fact that you provide one and it's accepted by IO does not mean that it's a requirement. 

[foreverlomsak]

2 minutes ago, Plern said:

The idea is to nail you down. What good would the 90 day report be?

Why do you think Immigration have the TM30 and TM47 reports if not to allow you a modicum of freedom of movement

[NotReallyHere]

As is often the case with this forum, posts have gotten way off topic, very fast...

 

What I'm gathering is that if I move quickly, I'm unlikely to face the same 1 year rental contract requirement elsewhere.  Also, there is no appeals process, otherwise someone would have mentioned it by now.

[ukrules]

33 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Seriously?  The point of not disclosing is to avoid potential retaliation for the disclosure.  Saving face, etc.  Don't you think immigration officers read this forum?  It would not be difficult to determine who I am if they know the office.

You're not getting an extension there anyway. They've already decided that

[patman30]

1 minute ago, NotReallyHere said:

posts have gotten way off topic, very fast.

They haven't
but members want to know
which office is asking for a 1 year lease as you state
but you are refusing to help others who also may soon be faced with the same issue
as you refuse to name the office
the replies have told you what you need to know which you should already know
that rules change office to office
The rules of IMM' offices are frequently discussed so those in the area know the rules they face.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, NotReallyHere said:

As is often the case with this forum, posts have gotten way off topic, very fast.

Not off topic at all.

You posted an experience regarding one year lease requirement.

At same time not name office. 

 

Makes advice impossible. 

 

BTW: My last extension based on retirement (Nov last year at CW) I had lease in my in my docs.

The io passed it back.

 

One new thing they wanted was my TM47.

That is a very new request for my extension at CW. 

 

OP you don't get it. The reason I posted comments about CW is perhaps helps members to be updated with various changes. 

[NotReallyHere]

3 minutes ago, patman30 said:

They haven't
but members want to know
which office is asking for a 1 year lease as you state
but you are refusing to help others who also may soon be faced with the same issue
as you refuse to name the office
the replies have told you what you need to know which you should already know
that rules change office to office
The rules of IMM' offices are frequently discussed so those in the area know the rules they face.

I am not aware of the things you tell me I "should already know" because I do not, (unlike you, apparently) spend my free time reading visa forums.

 

As the OP, I set the topic.  The majority of the posts have been about retaliation from immigration officers, not direct answers to my questions.  So, yes, this thread has gotten off topic.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, patman30 said:

The rules of IMM' offices are frequently discussed so those in the area know the rules they face.

Which is one of the main reasons for the forum.

 

[Chicksaw]

The 1-year lease requirement is obviously nonsense. Imm has no say in if a retiree wants to hop rental properties in the one year.

 

My guess is either (a) they were hinting that you "help" them out in some manner or (b) for some reason you'd gotten on their nerves.

 

For some reason, I'm guessing the latter.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Chicksaw

[NotReallyHere]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not off topic at all.

You posted an experience regarding one year lease requirement.

At same time not name office. 

 

Makes advice impossible.

Advice is not impossible. 

 

Two easy questions:  1 year rental contract requirement "normal"?  Is there an appeals process?

 

Please don't take my comment the wrong way.  I appreciate the "indirect" advice I've been given and will act accordingly.

 

Thanks, sincerely...

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Two easy questions:  1 year rental contract requirement "normal"?  Is there an appeals process?

You have received many posts the the one year lease is certainly not normal.

Just now I have gone through few threads regarding extensions.

Here is one allbeit CW.

 

I posted this as the OP provided clear list of what he provided and 12 month lease was not one.

I also posted support in that thread 

I looked at several others threads.

As folk have posted above...it is not a requirement. 

 

Nothing more from me as without office is pointless. 

 

My guess is they want a bribe or you use agent

Edited June 8, 2023 by DrJack54

[kwonitoy]

35 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Because no immigration office that I'm aware of has a one year lease requirement.

 

The fact that you provide one and it's accepted by IO does not mean that it's a requirement. 

I had to show a copy of my yearly lease for the last 3 years I was in Udon Thani. (2018-2021)

And they wanted it updated every year and were very picky about the dates being correct

For a retirement extension FWIW

As always different offices, different requirements

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, kwonitoy said:

And they wanted it updated every year and were very picky about the dates being correct

Interesting.

How does that work when your lease expires in say June and you wish to apply for extension in May.

And your landlord has limit on how early new lease provided.

 

Udon Thani imm office in the past was corrupt.

Not aware of current procedures there. 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by DrJack54

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, NotReallyHere said:

I told them that it was my plan, in retirement, to travel around Thailand, changing locations every 3, 6 or 9 months based on how much or little I liked my current location.  My current location is becoming a bit boring, so I thought I'd extend my rental contract for 3 months one last time and then move on to some place new.

I wonder if immigration on your country will give an easy nomadic visa to Thais or make sure they have a permanent address?

[NotReallyHere]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I wonder if immigration on your country will give an easy nomadic visa to Thais or make sure they have a permanent address?

In my country, immigrants run amok.  Just cross the border, legally or illegally, and sign a document promising to appear in court some time in the future.  My country will even put immigrants on a bus or plane to their desired location of disappearance.

 

Define "permanent address".  As others have mentioned, a 90 day report serves as my declaration of location.  To my knowledge, there is no requirement that two consecutive 90 day reports be from the same location.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

In my country, immigrants run amok.  Just cross the border, legally or illegally, and sign a document promising to appear in court some time in the future.  My country will even put immigrants on a bus or plane to their desired location of disappearance.

 

Define "permanent address".  As others have mentioned, a 90 day report serves as my declaration of location.  To my knowledge, there is no requirement that two consecutive 90 day reports be from the same location.

Fair enough, I was just saying it's harder for a Thai to get a retirement visa in the US, for example. $500k invested, for a start. There really is nothing you can do, if you start demanding your rights, you'll be worse off. 

Maybe just photoshop/alter a contract?

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Define "permanent address".  As others have mentioned, a 90 day report serves as my declaration of location.  To my knowledge, there is no requirement that two consecutive 90 day reports be from the same location.

You are course correct in this regard. 

Many expats on non O extensions like to move and live in various provinces. 

 

Even moreso if not married and enjoy travel.

 

[biervoormij]

The OP said in one of the posts that release clauses are not common in Thailand. I have one in my current lease and believe my previous lease had one as well. I just lose my deposit if I move prior to the term of my lease. Is this not the norm?