Has Immigration lost their mind? Retirement Visa Extension requires a 1 year rental contract?

[glegolo18]

10 hours ago, Plern said:

I'm surprised the op thinks this is a thing. Most (all) of us produce one year leases. Why would op think that he should be given a one year extension based on a three month contract? The idea is to nail you down. What good would the 90 day report be? This seems common sensical to me. Just because I chanced it before means I should always be given this favor forever and at a place of my choosing. Not exactly reality based thinking. If for no other reason we all know how arbitrary all this is.

Correction... Most of us are having a tabien baan (yellow house book) and do not need any lease-contract....

[scottiejohn]

Why not get the owner to a sign a single copy of a one year lease which you can destroy after you get your extension!

[Dan O]

11 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

Seriously?  The point of not disclosing is to avoid potential retaliation for the disclosure.  Saving face, etc.  Don't you think immigration officers read this forum?  It would not be difficult to determine who I am if they know the office.

There's really no problem disclosing the office, many do it all the time and it helps others avoid potential problems and also may give you first hand info that is useful at that office for you.

 

One thing that seems to get overlooked in these situations is that the Imm officer has the discretion to ask for additional information or documents not listed. It's in the regs that they can and there is no list so what's fair or not, what's right or not can go right out of the window. They can use their own judgements (often flawed) based on what they see or think they see. I'm not saying they are right or agreeing with them doing it but they have that option if they choose to exercise it. 

[zyphodb]

10 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

I had to show a copy of my yearly lease for the last 3 years I was in Udon Thani. (2018-2021)

And they wanted it updated every year and were very picky about the dates being correct

For a retirement extension FWIW

As always different offices, different requirements

They were just being "difficult" to push you towards an agent I'd say... 

[h90]

Easy...make a rental contract for 1 year, or 10 or 1000 if they want so and put in a paragraph that says both sides can cancel it after 3 month without notice.

Case repaired. Or if they don't like it.

Or make a 1000 year rental contract and contract that both sides agree to cancel it without costs to any sides on the xx.xx.xxxx date 3 month in future. and don't show that second contract.

[David Whitemore]

This is typical of the thai immigration system they always want to make things difficult, I would like them to apply for a visa to travel elsewhere and get refuse

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

In my country, immigrants run amok.  Just cross the border, legally or illegally, and sign a document promising to appear in court some time in the future.  My country will even put immigrants on a bus or plane to their desired location of disappearance.

 

Define "permanent address".  As others have mentioned, a 90 day report serves as my declaration of location.  To my knowledge, there is no requirement that two consecutive 90 day reports be from the same location.

That's why it's so refreshing (albeit sometimes frustrating) that immigration here is actually trying to control it. 

[marin]

14 minutes ago, David Whitemore said:

This is typical of the thai immigration system they always want to make things difficult, I would like them to apply for a visa to travel elsewhere and get refuse

Sorry but can you post that again, it makes no sense to me. 

[brianthainess]

Does this Mysterious Immigration not have a list of what is required ?? I thought they all did. another point is: what would happen if say you were halfway through a rent agreement as some are, when making their application ??

When someone in my IO TRAT doesn't understand what is needed they are shown the list that is free to keep. this is from TRAT no specified time for rent contract.

 

[kingstonkid]

12 hours ago, Plern said:

I'm surprised the op thinks this is a thing. Most (all) of us produce one year leases. Why would op think that he should be given a one year extension based on a three month contract? The idea is to nail you down. What good would the 90 day report be? This seems common sensical to me. Just because I chanced it before means I should always be given this favor forever and at a place of my choosing. Not exactly reality based thinking. If for no other reason we all know how arbitrary all this is.

I don't have a rental contract to include but take gf with me as I am living with her.  Usually because I have been here so long they don't ask.  PT imm

[brianthainess]

26 minutes ago, David Whitemore said:

This is typical of the thai immigration system they always want to make things difficult, I would like them to apply for a visa to travel elsewhere and get refuse

Agreed I pointed out to Immigration about the 90day report and bank details,  They looked at me in disbelief when i told them in most countries once a Thai gets a visa none of that is required . 

[Dante99]

8 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Agreed I pointed out to Immigration about the 90day report and bank details,  They looked at me in disbelief when i told them in most countries once a Thai gets a visa none of that is required . 

Why do you talk to them about something that has absolutely nothing to do with their job or what you are doing with them there?  They do not make rules or policy. 

[brianthainess]

Just now, Dante99 said:

Why do you talk to them about something that has absolutely nothing to do with their job or what you are doing with them there?  They do not make rules or policy. 

All Immigration Offices make up their own rules.

unlike some I am on good terms with the officers, and their is no harm talking to them while waiting in an empty office it is just banter, not said in anger, they like a bit of interaction, I like to leave their office with them smiling with me, and the missus, well i have to drag her out, THEY give her gifts. Last time some dried banana chips, me an iced coffee. Kapp 

[Yellowtail]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the guys chatting up the officers are always the ones that have difficulty?

 

Dude askes me something I try to answer, I don't ask why they want to know. 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Yellowtail
clarity

[Freddy42OZ]

13 hours ago, Plern said:

I'm surprised the op thinks this is a thing. Most (all) of us produce one year leases. Why would op think that he should be given a one year extension based on a three month contract? The idea is to nail you down. What good would the 90 day report be? This seems common sensical to me. Just because I chanced it before means I should always be given this favor forever and at a place of my choosing. Not exactly reality based thinking. If for no other reason we all know how arbitrary all this is.

How are you supposed to sync your one year lease with your one year extension?  

How much of the one year lease do you need for it to qualify? 

Would a one year lease with three months left on it be ok?  or would it need to have a minimum of six months validity remaining? 

How do they know you are going to renew the lease? 

This is utterly daft.

 

[h90]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

That's why it's so refreshing (albeit sometimes frustrating) that immigration here is actually trying to control it. 

yes at least they try....They make the life harder for the people who are already the good guys.....but with all their faults it is better than in my home country. I would guess without it half the planets criminals would be here already.

[brianthainess]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is it just me, or does it seem like the guys chatting up the officers are always the ones that have difficulty?

 

Dude askes me something I try to answer, I don't ask why they want to know. 

 

 

Yep it is just you.

[brianthainess]

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is it just me, or does it seem like the guys chatting up the officers are always the ones that have difficulty?

 

Dude askes me something I try to answer, I don't ask why they want to know. 

 

 

My interaction is after my application I don't ask "why" I don't need to, I have Their list and follow it. Incidentally many years ago their list was in Thai only, so I asked how many Thais need to make a visa/extension, next time I walked in the door the IO assistant literally ran up to me smiling proudly waving a properly translated list in English, which IMO would have never happened without my comment so it does help to point things out sometimes.  

[Grusa]

13 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

As is often the case with this forum, posts have gotten way off topic, very fast...

 

What I'm gathering is that if I move quickly, I'm unlikely to face the same 1 year rental contract requirement elsewhere.  Also, there is no appeals process, otherwise someone would have mentioned it by now.

There IS an appeals process. It's called a brown envelope. It requires a modicum of discretion and common sense to process, otherwise you lose the appeal.

[foreverlomsak]

12 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

To my knowledge, there is no requirement that two consecutive 90 day reports be from the same location.

Correct, however you will not succeed in the second 90 day report unless it is the same or that you have changed address through, I think it's TM28 or 29 (never had to do one) or via a new TM30.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Not boasting but we have few rentals. 

It's so so simple to provide a lease.

Have one joint SA guy and another USA guy ...

Could provide them with fictional 12 month  lease in a blink. 

 

I know an acquaintance here whose landlord each cycle provides him with two different leases.... one the real one, and the other at a much reduced rental rate that is only used to show an income source to the local tax/revenue authorities.

 

This is Thailand. The landlord and the tenant can do pretty much whatever terms they want upon mutual agreement.

 

[BritTim]

30 minutes ago, h90 said:

yes at least they try....They make the life harder for the people who are already the good guys.....but with all their faults it is better than in my home country. I would guess without it half the planets criminals would be here already.

I am genuinely curious. Which customary rules or local variations do you think have been most important in keeping criminal elements from coming to Thailand? Do you regard requiring a one-year rental agreement as a useful tool in keeping out transnational crime?

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I am genuinely curious. Which customary rules or local variations do you think have been most important in keeping criminal elements from coming to Thailand? Do you regard requiring a one-year rental agreement as a useful tool in keeping out transnational crime?

I thought the general consensus was that the one-year rental agreement was not a requirement, I know I don't have one. 

 

In any event, I imagine they what to know where people are staying to make sure they can locate them and or make sure they are not living on the street of "camping" somewhere. 

 

Oh, and I doubt very much you are genuinely curious. 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Yellowtail
text

[brianthainess]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Which customary rules or local variations do you think have been most important in keeping criminal elements from coming to Thailand?

Well certainly not agents bribing them. 

[h90]

15 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I am genuinely curious. Which customary rules or local variations do you think have been most important in keeping criminal elements from coming to Thailand? Do you regard requiring a one-year rental agreement as a useful tool in keeping out transnational crime?

The one-year rental agreement is of course not useful and many other things are pure nonsense. But local variation helps to react faster than if everything needs to go up the chain. They are trying and they produce lot of nonsense. In Europe they don't even try.

[zzzzz]

for real:
never heard of this but so what??
just ask your landlord to draw you up a 1 year contract and tell him thats what Immigration wants YET he understands ur only staying 3 months>
not exactly rocket science.

[eggzthaioz]

Simple. Go to a newsagent and buy a pad of basic rental contract forms in Thai and get your landlord to fill it out as a 1 year contract.

Contracts are generally not worth the paper they're written on in Thailand.

 

[BritTim]

16 minutes ago, h90 said:

The one-year rental agreement is of course not useful and many other things are pure nonsense. But local variation helps to react faster than if everything needs to go up the chain. They are trying and they produce lot of nonsense. In Europe they don't even try.

I think if every official in Europe was allowed to make up their own rules there would be massive protests, and not just from refugees. Once officials are no longer subject to the rule of law, they will justify almost anything in the name of "fighting crime". Personally, I do not think the answer to complex issues is to abolish due process.

[BritTim]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I thought the general consensus was that the one-year rental agreement was not a requirement, I know I don't have one. 

 

In any event, I imagine they what to know where people are staying to make sure they can locate them and or make sure they are not living on the street of "camping" somewhere. 

 

Oh, and I doubt very much you are genuinely curious. 

I am curious. That is the only way you can remain willing to change your mind about things.

 

Some are saying that allowing local officials to make up their own rules (such as one-year retirement rentals) is conducive to preventing criminal elements from entering Thailand. I fail to see how it helps, but maybe I am missing something.

[Stevemercer]

The least hassle option might be to pay an agent to complete your extension.