Toyota CEO: "This new engine will destroy the entire EV industry !

[kwak250]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How far do you get on 20–30-minute charge? 

To the next ev station down the road?

 

[phetpeter]

Surely, by putting 4 alternators on each moving wheel, this put help recharge the power cells giving the car more distance, or is that too easy and revenue would be reduced from the charging stations that undoubtly are paying the comapnies a reward from the electric supply companies.

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How far do you get on 20–30-minute charge? 

Between 200-320km

[kwak250]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Between 200-320km

20 minute charge can get 2-300 km now that is good i must admit 
Is this standard now?

Always thought you had to wait and edit photos/chat on fb  for nearly an hour to get 300km range?

[KhunLA]

40 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How far do you get on 20–30-minute charge? 

Car dependent, but for us (MG ZS), that's good for ~3 ish hrs/~250 kms of driving, with 100 kms reserve.

 

Our BEV battery is probably considered small now @ 46.3kWh usable of 50.3kWh of storage.

 

Newer cars coming out with 60-70-80kWh batteries.

 

ZS will accept 74kWh at CS, MG 4 will accept 117kWh.  So very car dependent.

 

Really depends where we're going.  If wanting, I can go to daughters house in Krung Thep (Victory Monument area) from PKK (A. Muang), without charging on the way.  285 kms and still have 75 ish kms reserve when arriving.  Shy of a 4 hour drive.

 

We always stop on the way though, as usually hungry & need a P break, along with the dog, needing.   Also avoids the need to top up at Krung Thep, not that we couldn't at the mall we'll probably visit.

 

Surprisingly, it's actually easier to find a CS than E85, when we had the ICE version.  Though since E85 & 91 are priced about the same now, I wouldn't bother with E85 if still having the ICE ZS.

 

Our recent O&A, we topped up when near a CS when out for the day, simply playing tourist or eating.  Didn't take any extra time or special trip to do so.

 

While going from province to province, about the same.  Stopping for food or P break was the priority, not topping up.  We simply picked the larger PTTs with a CS, which are the better PTTs anyway, as more food options.

 

We don't do long haul driving, rare, but easy enough as more than enough CS along the way.  Pick and choose at your leisure, minimal to no planning really needed.  I personally wouldn't go more than 300 kms, JIC, CS is inop.  But that's easily 3-4 hrs of driving, and I alone, definitely need a break.  Wife & dog will want to stop sooner.  

 

If you are constantly time restricted when on the road, or don't enjoy the journey as much as the destination, then an EV probably isn't for you.  Need to be where ever ASAP, with no/minimal stops, then EV probably isn't for you.

 

For us, the journey is as enjoyable as the destination.

[Lacessit]

51 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Great, another step, why not convert the electricity to pink ouffle dust first? more steps to avoid putting that electricity straight into your car.

IMO you are missing the point entirely.

Where do you think the electricity going straight into the car comes from?

Worldwide, fossil fuels still account for about two-thirds of all electricity generation.

 

https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&client=ubuntu&q=Worldwide+fossil+fuel+percentage+electricity+generation

 

North-west Thailand gets its electricity from Mae Moh power station, fuelled by lignite,  the dirtiest fossil fuel on the planet in terms of carbon dioxide emissions.

 

If you are decanting electrons into an EV, you have simply transferred the pollution from the vehicle to the power station. There's no real difference between an ICE and an EV in terms of environmental impact, when one takes into account the toxicity of what the storage battery is made of.

OTOH, use hydrogen as a fuel, the only bulk emission is water.

Virtue signalling by EV owners they are environmentally responsible is utter BS.

[BE88]

48 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Life is really going to suck for you, as the world goes cashless transactions.

Not only for him but for everyone who doesn't want to know how many times you have to go pee a day

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO you are missing the point entirely.

Where do you think the electricity going straight into the car comes from?

Worldwide, fossil fuels still account for about two-thirds of all electricity generation.

That's changing rapidly, where possible.  Big oil/fossil fuel conglomerates are losing their grip on those that make the decisions.

 

Harder to get re-elected when choosing to support ever increasing priced energy sources vs supporting cheaper renewable energy sources & development.

 

It's a work (very slow) in progress ????

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Between 200-320km

That's pretty good. We'll say (200+320)/2 for a 260 average. 

 

My last 10 fills: 

 

Most of my driving is in and around Bangkok, so don't eat at pumps and almost never use the bathroom at a pump. It takes 5-10 minutes to fuel, and I generally do not get out of the vehicle. 

 

 

So, you have to make almost three times as often as I do and spend almost seventy minutes to do what it takes me less than ten minutes to do. This does not include the time into and out of the pump. 

 

It does get better for you driving around town, as you get to plug in at home, but still the savings is minimal. I'm glad you like your EV, I think they're great, but I think the economic and environmental benefit are greatly exaggerated. 

 

 

 

[nahkit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

On the road, it comes down to 'time management', and yes, it takes 30-45 minutes to top up.   But as mentioned a hundred times by many, that break after driving 3+ hrs is very welcome.

 

I save anything needed to be done while on the fly / O&A for those charging times.   Check for hotel & restaurants that we're headed to.  Fine tune the research, as now know if staying in the area, or moving on. 

 

If all done, then could always troll AN, since haven't peeked for 3+ hours, or catch up on family & friends on FB.   Maybe edit those photos I stopped and took at that viewpoint.  Was that a bird ?

 

Car is usually done topped up or 80% before we are.  Just stopping to smell the coffee, and maybe some cheesecake, or that double pork burger, or some Kha Moo, if hungry ... works for us.  Along with being, so much cheaper than petrol.

YMMV

Guess what, I can do all of those above things without having to own an EV.

 

The difference being that I can choose whether I want to do them or not because I'm not stuck waiting for a battery to recharge.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, nahkit said:

Guess what, I can do all of those above things without having to own an EV.

 

The difference being that I can choose whether I want to do them or not because I'm not stuck waiting for a battery to recharge.

I think that because most driving is done around town, EVs make pretty good sense for people that have dedicated parking and a charge facility at home. 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

46 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO you are missing the point entirely.

Where do you think the electricity going straight into the car comes from?

Worldwide, fossil fuels still account for about two-thirds of all electricity generation.

 

https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&client=ubuntu&q=Worldwide+fossil+fuel+percentage+electricity+generation

 

North-west Thailand gets its electricity from Mae Moh power station, fuelled by lignite,  the dirtiest fossil fuel on the planet in terms of carbon dioxide emissions.

 

If you are decanting electrons into an EV, you have simply transferred the pollution from the vehicle to the power station. There's no real difference between an ICE and an EV in terms of environmental impact, when one takes into account the toxicity of what the storage battery is made of.

OTOH, use hydrogen as a fuel, the only bulk emission is water.

Virtue signalling by EV owners they are environmentally responsible is utter BS.

And let's ponder Hydrogen, you make it with electricity, exactly the same electricity EV owners put in their car.  There is no difference with Hydrogen.

 

The real issue is transitioning away from fossil fuels, I have done that in my home and with my car.

[kwak250]

Have you seen how quickly the EV cars can ignite .

That is the biggest problem for me.

 

Well that and waiting for it to charge..

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If all done, then could always troll AN, since haven't peeked for 3+ hours, or catch up on family & friends on FB. 

That convinced me - or maybe not...

 

It always possible to arrange things here and there. But it's much nicer to have the convenience to just fill up the tank in minutes almost anywhere almost anytime whenever needed. 

For all the decades which I had cars and motorcycles I never planned breaks in any trips. I filled up the tank when it was low. And I had something to eat and drink when I wanted to. I hate making advanced plans when spontaneous actions are just fine. 

 

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That convinced me - or maybe not...

 

It always possible to arrange things here and there. But it's much nicer to have the convenience to just fill up the tank in minutes almost anywhere almost anytime whenever needed. 

For all the decades which I had cars and motorcycles I never planned breaks in any trips. I filled up the tank when it was low. And I had something to eat and drink when I wanted to. I hate making advanced plans when spontaneous actions are just fine. 

 

If I was to drive to BKK, I wouldn't plan anything, I would just stop at a large service station when battery about 20% and top up.

 

You couldn't do that 2 years ago.

 

 

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, kennw said:

Little difference between a Hydrogen tank or CNG tanks that large number of truck are using in Thailand now and for years already. And since only 16% of electricity in Thailand is produced by renewable sources what is your motivation.? 

CNG/LPG is kinda a middleground of issues between hydrogen and gasoline/diesel. You get the storage and safety issues combined with harmful emissions upon combustion. Great. I've seen a few places in Bangkok that ban these in their parking houses. Thailand was close to banning them nationwide due to their poor safety track record. Yes, Thailand is behind when it comes to generating electricity from renewables but taking that as an argument against EVs? That's giving up before you even attempt to solve the problem. Again with the old fuels you have no way to solve the problems. With EVs we have a clear path forward.

[BenStark]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think what you say is a common misconception.

 

You arrive at the service station, plug your car in, go for a pee, order a coffee or sandwich and by the time you have consumed them, you are on your way again. Maybe 20-30 minutes later.

 

I live not far from a large gas station, they have about 20 pumps to provide for those dirty gas guzzling vehicles.

 

Most of the time when I visit to fill up, all those pumps are occupied, and sometimes I have to wait in the queue.

 

They also have ONE charging station, but so far I have never seen a car charging there, so at this time you are correct that you just arrive and plug in the car.

 

But what, if your claims come through that EV is a success story, and everyone is buying EV's now.

 

What are the chances that you are third of fourth in the queue at that single charging station?

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, eisfeld said:

CNG/LPG is kinda a middleground of issues between hydrogen and gasoline/diesel. You get the storage and safety issues combined with harmful emissions upon combustion. Great. I've seen a few places in Bangkok that ban these in their parking houses. 

Most of the shopping malls with indoor parking ban any LPG/CNG parking, I can't see them allowing Hydrogen cars.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, BenStark said:

They also have ONE charging station, but so far I have never seen a car charging there, so at this time you are correct that you just arrive and plug in the car.

 

But what, if your claims come through that EV is a success story, and everyone is buying EV's now.

 

What are the chances that you are third of fourth in the queue at that single charging station?

 

 

Yes you are right, that time is coming.  We can only hope that deployed CS's keep up with EV adoption.

 

I see the opposite problem coming later, increasingly difficult to find fuel for an ICE car.

[Mickeymaus]

Let's assume that all vehicles in Bangkok would use hydrogen and only emit water vapour. What would this mean the for humidity in Bangkok? Much worse than now already? I think so. 

[BenStark]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

it makes absolute sense to introduce all these intermediate steps instead of putting the electricity directly into your silent EV car with 20 moving parts and low servicing costs

https://www.hdfcergo.com/blogs/car-insurance/electric-vehicle-insurance-why-is-it-more-expensive

 

Electric Vehicle Insurance: Why is it More Expensive?

 

Why are electric vehicles more expensive to insure?

1. Electric vehicles cost more:

Electric cars are more expensive when compared to conventional or fuel-powered ones. Hence, their Insured Declared Value (IDV) is also high. The higher the IDV, the higher will be the car insurance premiums. Although electric cars cost more initially, owning one will prove to be economical in the long run as you can save on fuel costs over the years.

2. Repair costs are higher:

Electric vehicles have high-capacity batteries and expensive parts. Hence, their repair costs are also on the higher side. For instance, the cost of an EV’s lithium-ion batteryis more than half of the total cost of the car. Hence, repairing the battery or replacing it with a new one is an expensive affair. Similarly, the repair or replacement of any other part of an electric car can also cost huge bucks. Therefore, insurance companies charge higher premiums for electric car insurance.

3. Fewer number of qualified technicians:

Electric vehicles have some complex car parts that require special care and servicing. While conventional car mechanics are easily available in different towns and cities, the highly skilled ones for electric vehicles can be difficult to locate. And the available mechanics charge extra money for repairing EVs and replacing their parts. Since insurance companies cover the cost of vehicle repair and parts replacement in case of accidents, fire, natural calamity or any other event covered under the policy, they charge higher car insurance renewalpremiums for EVs.

[eisfeld]

28 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That convinced me - or maybe not...

 

It always possible to arrange things here and there. But it's much nicer to have the convenience to just fill up the tank in minutes almost anywhere almost anytime whenever needed. 

For all the decades which I had cars and motorcycles I never planned breaks in any trips. I filled up the tank when it was low. And I had something to eat and drink when I wanted to. I hate making advanced plans when spontaneous actions are just fine. 

 

People probably thought the same when switching from horses to cars when no petrol stations networks existed.

[eisfeld]

12 minutes ago, BenStark said:

But what, if your claims come through that EV is a success story, and everyone is buying EV's now.

 

What are the chances that you are third of fourth in the queue at that single charging station?

I dunno, maybe they'll just put a few more charging stations in place? Just an idea...

[OneMoreFarang]

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

If I was to drive to BKK, I wouldn't plan anything, I would just stop at a large service station when battery about 20% and top up.

 

You couldn't do that 2 years ago.

I have no car and I need no car for Bangkok. A car might be useful for visiting the gf family up country. And I am sure they don't have a big charger at home. Likely their home power supply would fail if I would try to charge anything more than my phone...

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Most of my driving is in and around Bangkok, so don't eat at pumps and almost never use the bathroom at a pump. It takes 5-10 minutes to fuel, and I generally do not get out of the vehicle. 

Most of my driving is in & around PKK, and also don't eat at PTTs, or waste time topping up there,  

 

At home, 99% of charging, I get out of car, plug in .... unplug, get in car & go.  Less time than you waiting for the attendant to come over and ask what kind & how much at the petrol station.   And then having paying for that privilege ????

1 hour ago, nahkit said:

Guess what, I can do all of those above things without having to own an EV.

 

The difference being that I can choose whether I want to do them or not because I'm not stuck waiting for a battery to recharge.

I did the exact same things, when I owned the ICE version, so absolutely nothing has changed when I'm O&A.

 

Always have a game plan before leaving the house, and it always seems to change in route.

 

And stopping for a P or a munch, that's mandatory.   You're not one of the 700 kms / 10 hr drive guys that makes the family P in jar with no stops ... ????

 

If the little sh!ts keep asking 'are we there yet?'  

 

Tell them to get out & walk, if they think it will be faster ????

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

People probably thought the same when switching from horses to cars when no petrol stations networks existed.

In the village of my gf is no 7/11. There is also no gasoline station. And there is certainly no fast or slow electric charging point. With an ordinary car that is no problem. Just stop at the gasoline station anywhere on the way to or from the village for a few minutes.

What would be the way to handle that with an electric vehicle? Charge that vehicle somewhere 30km away from the village over night and travel with a bike between the village and the car charger? Or what? 

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, BenStark said:

https://www.hdfcergo.com/blogs/car-insurance/electric-vehicle-insurance-why-is-it-more-expensive

 

Electric Vehicle Insurance: Why is it More Expensive?

 

Why are electric vehicles more expensive to insure?

1. Electric vehicles cost more:

Electric cars are more expensive when compared to conventional or fuel-powered ones. Hence, their Insured Declared Value (IDV) is also high. The higher the IDV, the higher will be the car insurance premiums. Although electric cars cost more initially, owning one will prove to be economical in the long run as you can save on fuel costs over the years.

2. Repair costs are higher:

Electric vehicles have high-capacity batteries and expensive parts. Hence, their repair costs are also on the higher side. For instance, the cost of an EV’s lithium-ion batteryis more than half of the total cost of the car. Hence, repairing the battery or replacing it with a new one is an expensive affair. Similarly, the repair or replacement of any other part of an electric car can also cost huge bucks. Therefore, insurance companies charge higher premiums for electric car insurance.

3. Fewer number of qualified technicians:

Electric vehicles have some complex car parts that require special care and servicing. While conventional car mechanics are easily available in different towns and cities, the highly skilled ones for electric vehicles can be difficult to locate. And the available mechanics charge extra money for repairing EVs and replacing their parts. Since insurance companies cover the cost of vehicle repair and parts replacement in case of accidents, fire, natural calamity or any other event covered under the policy, they charge higher car insurance renewalpremiums for EVs.

they aren't 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In the village of my gf is no 7/11. There is also no gasoline station. And there is certainly no fast or slow electric charging point. With an ordinary car that is no problem. Just stop at the gasoline station anywhere on the way to or from the village for a few minutes.

What would be the way to handle that with an electric vehicle? Charge that vehicle somewhere 30km away from the village over night and travel with a bike between the village and the car charger? Or what? 

Is there electric at the house ? ????

 

You'd do the same as I do, doing now actually, simply plug in the car.... at home.  As most EV owners do.

 

Only need a CS when further than 150 kms from the house.  Of course if you can't charge at home, then maybe an EV isn't for you.

 

How often do working families take 150+ kms trips away from the house per week, month or year.  Some never, some once or twice a year if lucky.

 

Me, retired and take about 20+, and in no hurry to go anywhere.  Enjoy my leisurely lifestyle. 

 

Back in USA, when a 'working class hero' I would have loved to have an EV.  Never ventured more than 150 kms from home.  Simply hopped a plane if going out of Philly / tri-state area.

 

Now the silly cost of maintaining an ICE in the USA, OH YEA, EV is the way to go.

[eisfeld]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In the village of my gf is no 7/11. There is also no gasoline station. And there is certainly no fast or slow electric charging point. With an ordinary car that is no problem. Just stop at the gasoline station anywhere on the way to or from the village for a few minutes.

What would be the way to handle that with an electric vehicle? Charge that vehicle somewhere 30km away from the village over night and travel with a bike between the village and the car charger? Or what? 

Even in remote Isan you'll be able to pull 5kW from the wall of the house of your GF. But you missed my point. Yes, charging an EV *right now* is not as optimal as refuelling a gasoline powered car. No doubt about it. The infrastracture is still being developed but it's making good progress. It's clearly the future.

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I have no car and I need no car for Bangkok. A car might be useful for visiting the gf family up country. And I am sure they don't have a big charger at home. Likely their home power supply would fail if I would try to charge anything more than my phone...

Shouldn't make statements like that, your ignorance is showing.  Granny/emergency charger draws no more than powerful kitchen appliance, or a krappy shower water heater, 2300w.

Our water heaters are 3500w.  The one in Udon Thani was 8000w.