My landlord will not complete TM30!! What do I do?

[LukKrueng]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:53 PM, eisfeld said:

She will be fined and on top might get tax issues which is most likely the reason why she does not want to file the TM30. She is avoiding to report rental income.

I keep seeing that tax issue tied up with tm30 and I never understand why anyone thinks there's a connection between the 2. Immigration and tax department are 2 different bodies that have nothing to do with each other. In order for the tax department to get the information from immigration, IO has to go out of their way to inform them. Why would the do that?

As for the landlord not willing to do it - I can think of many reasons. Extra work, disclosing personal documents to a tenant just to name 2

[RocketDog]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:35 PM, Ralf001 said:

As the housemaster you can do it yourself, but you will need chanote and ID from her.

No, you need nothing from her.

[lordblackader]

Send her this link - it's Chiang Mai Immigration arresting and fining 16 Thais for not filing TM30s last week. If she still doesn't get the hint, report her to Immigration or move. 

https://www.facebook.com/immchiangmai/posts/pfbid0cH8eCi6545bTzdA2SZGeMNdyLZZgfFCsFUqXTi8HH9Ypt3BXbgLtFgPXnQxTJrfol

[eisfeld]

14 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

I keep seeing that tax issue tied up with tm30 and I never understand why anyone thinks there's a connection between the 2. Immigration and tax department are 2 different bodies that have nothing to do with each other. In order for the tax department to get the information from immigration, IO has to go out of their way to inform them. Why would the do that?

As for the landlord not willing to do it - I can think of many reasons. Extra work, disclosing personal documents to a tenant just to name 2

Extra work? You register with the online system once and then it takes maybe 2 minutes to fill the form. It's trivial, I've done it myself. She does also not have to disclose anything to the tenant - she files the tenant info into the system and that's it.

 

As to immigration having to go out of their way to report it to the tax authorities... sure. But why risk it? The Thai government has been connecting different departments digitally over the past couple years. It's just a matter of time before the immigration and tax departments will be linked together.

[mokwit]

On 7/21/2023 at 4:01 PM, DrJoy said:

You can DIY on the Section 38 application, pretty easy.

 

Screen shot of the app is accepted as proof by the Immi Officer

He needs the docs he can't get to set that up.

Edited July 23, 2023 by mokwit

[mokwit]

This is the problem with TM30 - it requires landlord cooperation and adds a layer of complexity. If you change apartments you need to tell the new Landlord that he must have the required TM30 docs for handover at lease signing or there will be no lease signing. Meanwhile you have given notice on your old apartment and despite reassurances the prospective Landlord tells you at the signing meet that he hasn't got the docs you asked for as the are "not necessary/private" etc.

 

Hypothetical case: Your landlord dies the day before you were planning to to do your extension and the transfer to whoever on his death is not done before your expiry date [a legally questionable workaround would be to have the internet capability set up in advance with you filing the TM30 online].

 

They really thought this one through, both at origination and on recent enforcement - maybe thought it was like on an army base in 1979 - just use some of your free time to stroll over to the Admin office on the base and get any paperwork done.

[JimTripper]

You could stop paying rent. When asked say you need a TM30 ????.

 

Not sure how great an idea that is.

[stubuzz]

I had a similar situation. I just used a friend's house details and ID and registered myself there. Although, it could cause a problem if you are on a marriage visa and get an immigration visit.

[ifmu]

Do it yourself .. you do not need a lot 

 

Address GPS?  Name of landlady. Repct if possible.   Then go to imm and explain. ..   

[problemfarang]

There might be a reason why shes not doing it. 

once this happened to me: my house owner was refusing to give me her and house info need for my internet installation. she told me she doesnt want me to use internet at her house because they need to drill the house wall. Then after 2 months i found a police note on my door saying the house is on sale because the owner was not paying the house for 1 year already. I talked with the house owner and she said its not important. Then people started to come and asked me if they can see the house, they told me they saw the house on bank's website.

i moved.

 

another way you can do is tell her you will get internet and need her Id and house book and contract. but i dont think she will buy it because she already knows your intentions.

 

i would move.

[Caldera]

With immigration's ongoing obsession with TM30 notifications, tenants really need to make it a habit to make this a part of the process when moving in.

 

Relying on an agent's assurance that this will be taken care of later on isn't a good idea; as soon as you've handed over the money you're at their mercy.

 

Any landlord who's willing and able to do the TM30 notification will most likely have the paperwork ready unprompted, so having to remind them is already a red flag.

[Captain Monday]

3 hours ago, JimTripper said:

You could stop paying rent. When asked say you need a TM30 ????.

 

Not sure how great an idea that is.

Doubt there is anything in the lease that says the owner bears such a responsibility

justifying non-payment of required rents

 

The OP should move

[mokwit]

TM30 non filing by a Landlord should not be a reason to refuse an extension. It should be nothing to do with us. They pushed the responsibility for getting it done onto us, rather then it being Imm's responsibility to see that Landlords complied with the law and filed TM30.

[FritsSikkink]

21 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Immigration will NOT provide you with any service when they do not have proof of your address,

Not true. While living on 2 different addresses in Bangkok over the years, I never showed proof of my address. Got my non Imm B for working and following extensions without any problem at the BOI OneStop center. Never done a TM30. 

[LivingNThailand]

23 hours ago, edwardflory said:

I have heard of only 2 times a IO held a landlord responsible and did not fine the renter.

In Phuket immigration has gotten tougher with Thai landlady/landlords not doing the TM30.  Especially if their tenant gets in trouble with the law.  Let's say you are a Thai landlady and your tenant gets tasered because he busts up 10 cars in a 7-11 parking lot and gets thrown in jail, immigration is going to come knocking on your door to find out why you haven't registered (TM30)  your rental as his place of residence.  It's happened a few times in the past 3-4 months and the Thai landlady has gotten fined.  Good guys in, bad guys out.  ????

Edited July 23, 2023 by LivingNThailand
typo

[mokwit]

23 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Not true. While living on 2 different addresses in Bangkok over the years, I never showed proof of my address. Got my non Imm B for working and following extensions without any problem at the BOI OneStop center. Never done a TM30. 

BOI/Chamsiri Sq don't refuse extensions if no TM30 filed because the extension is for the benefit of Thailand/Thai company. Retirees on the other hand are fair game.

[Peabody]

I was handed this at Jomtien immi 3 weeks ago,  applying for non-O. I needed everything from BOTH the top and bottom lists. This is in addition to all of the documents that are listed on a form they gave me 4 weeks ago. Had all of them and then she pulled this out.

[delgarcon]

Depending on how badly you want to stay there, maybe a couple of thousand baht would encourage her to complete the TM30.

[Liverpool Lou]

23 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Farang is ALWAYS wrong under Thai law.

Cobbler's.

[spidermike007]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:53 PM, eisfeld said:

This is actually the way to force it. She will be fined and on top might get tax issues which is most likely the reason why she does not want to file the TM30. She is avoiding to report rental income.

 

If the TM30 is important to the OP because for example you want to get a certificate of residence then I would suggest the OP openly tells the landlady and if she still refuses then do as ChipButty described and just go to immigration and start the process.

Sweet. I would have loved to have seen the look on the landlords face when she received the fine for malfeasance and failure to fulfill her responsibility as a landlord. 

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Not true. While living on 2 different addresses in Bangkok over the years, I never showed proof of my address. Got my non Imm B for working and following extensions without any problem at the BOI OneStop center. Never done a TM30. 

Are you not doing any 90-day reports? 

The purpose of the 90-day report is to notify the local Imm Office of the province where you are residing, that you are STILL staying at the same address for which the Imm Office has a record on file.  Without such record of your official address for immigration purposes, you would not  be able to do your 90-day report. 

[JimTripper]

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Doubt there is anything in the lease that says the owner bears such a responsibility

justifying non-payment of required rents

 

The OP should move

I don’t think the lease matters much. It’s just a piece of paper. It never goes to court.

[JensenZ]

On 7/21/2023 at 5:06 PM, n00dle said:

Personally i would rather not pay rent in a hostile situation. Id simply move, though I might threaten action if my deposit is denied me.

Moving is simple. Getting a deposit back, usually 2 months rent, can be impossible. If you leave before your contract is up, they can keep your deposit. If a landlord keeps your deposit, there's nothing you can do. This is why I'm very careful who I rent from and avoid Thai landlords. It's also why I prefer renting from established real estate companies that handle the deposits and all the paperwork.

 

If it was my problem, I would go to immigration, fill out the form, and when submitting it, tell the immigration officer that my landlord won't give me her ID and that you've asked her many times. That makes you the good guy as you're trying to follow the rules.

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Are you not doing any 90-day reports? 

The purpose of the 90-day report is to notify the local Imm Office of the province where you are residing, that you are STILL staying at the same address for which the Imm Office has a record on file.  Without such record of your official address for immigration purposes, you would not  be able to do your 90-day report. 

Company lawyer takes care of 90 day report, she has the address but no proof. Rental contract on first address was in my name, current one is in my wife's name.

[Ralf001]

On 7/22/2023 at 5:21 PM, RocketDog said:

No, you need nothing from her.

I needed them.

[Ralf001]

8 hours ago, ifmu said:

Do it yourself .. you do not need a lot 

 

Address GPS?  Name of landlady. Repct if possible.   Then go to imm and explain. ..   

Have you done it yourself ?

[mokwit]

11 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Company lawyer takes care of 90 day report, she has the address but no proof. Rental contract on first address was in my name, current one is in my wife's name.

unusual circumstances to the point where saying you have never done an address report is pointless.

[Ralf001]

4 hours ago, Peabody said:

I was handed this at Jomtien immi 3 weeks ago,  applying for non-O. I needed everything from BOTH the top and bottom lists. This is in addition to all of the documents that are listed on a form they gave me 4 weeks ago. Had all of them and then she pulled this out.

Yep.

The rent part is the docs I need to upload when I did my (as the housemaster) TM-30 online.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

unusual circumstances to the point where saying you have never done an address report is pointless.

You moaning about my clarification is pointless.

[LukKrueng]

23 hours ago, eisfeld said:

It's just a matter of time before the immigration and tax departments will be linked together

What benefit will the government have by doing this? What is the % of foreign renters in Thailand?