New Thailand Elite Visa packages from September 15th ?

[Pib]

13 hours ago, ukrules said:

That's what I'm thinking of - I plan on upgrading my current 5 year membership to a 20 year membership at some point.

 

Perhaps I should move quickly.

Below PE sales agent Youtube video made on 28 July/Friday and uploaded 29 July/Saturday says the option to do the upgrade is going away after 15 Aug 2023....see video link and snapshots below.   

 

Supposedly the sales agent got the info from meetings with Thailand Privilege Card Company Limited (TPC) which is the government owned company that manages/sells/issues PE memberships.

 

And keep in mind this video by a PE sales agent (i.e., visa agent) is full of PE visa "sales talk" so take it will a big grain of sand.  It also talks the potential for price increases of 2 to 3 fold (which I wouldn't believe...that's just way too high), how to potentially make a profit on a "transferable" PE visa, etc.  Yea...take the video with a big grain of salt since PE sales agents make their money via 10-15% commission of each PE visa they are able to sale/arrange.  But the 9 minute video does have some potentially good info in it but just to repeat take it with a big grain of salt, the understanding it's a video made by a PE sales agent, etc.    

 

Link to the Youtube video:  Link

 

Snapshots from above Youtube video link talking the 5 to 20 year upgrade.

 

[Jacques Clouseau]

12 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

you're only making stuff up now - how do you know about their goals?

You said it yourself: it's a business. The goal of a business is to make profit. Why do you want me to make things up? Let me remind you that you are the one who posted a graph pretending their business was booming when really it is stalling at 5000/year since 2019. Or maybe you didn't notice it was cumulative data? In that case, it's an honest mistake. Frankly I don't really care. If their business is doing well, good for them. It's better than the alternative. The only thing is so far you didn't provide data to back that up. Doesn't mean you're wrong btw. But it justifies my skepticism.

 

12 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

You argued it wasn't profitable

No I didn't. I said I suspected it wasn't making enough money. A business like that not being profitable is almost impossible as they don't have to invest a lot of money up front to make it work. I read a little bit about it yesterday after our chat and it seems to me we're talking about a service that requires very little investment. That being said it's not because you're not losing money that you are reaching your objectives. That elite service is part of a larger strategy to attract big money in the country as its population is ageing quickly. I don't know if you've noticed by the social stability of the LoS is falling apart and the gov hasn't come up with any good strategy to tackle the problem. I suspect Pita was in the game to try and push serious reforms in this specific context. I'm not idealizing him (he is probably corrupted to a degree) but at least he is realistic about the future of his country and the urgent need for reforms.

 

12 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

You're telling me now that "it's no success" - according to who/what, your opinion?

Of course it's my opinion. What else it is supposed to be if not an opinion? I can only try to form an opinion based on the information that I have - part of that information being what you provided yourself.

All have seen so far is a lame marketing strategy trying to make people believe that being an elite member is such a great premium deluxe once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you shouldn't miss because your life depends on it. My butt! Sooner or later reality is gonna kick in and Thai authorities will start to belly dance to have you come spend time in their country. Social and demographic trends don't lie. On the one hand Thai people are fed up of being cheap slaves to foreigners and on the other the ongoing population collapse of the country won't stop.

 

You know what your problem is ? You don't know how to contextualize. You gotta understand the big picture of what is going on in the wolrd right now. You understand it and you understand that cities (because it's really a city thing) will compete globally more and more to attract fine people. How well do you think Thailand is gonna fare in this context? Especially now that they've decided to take the illiberal way against the will of their population and against the "recommendations" of the West...

 

11 hours ago, wordchild said:

I always chat about how things are going etc etc. In recent months the reaction has always been along the lines of "OMG! so busy now, we have so many new members" (Chinese mostly). From what i hear they are recruiting new staff and existing staff are being worked harder.

Could be true, could be marking bs. Hard to know.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Seamaster]

14 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

20 year elite superiority extension I bought for 1m last month, not gonna sell for less than 2.5m this autumn.

Wager 2.5M?

 

Odds please, I'll take this bet

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, Pib said:

About 38% of existing cardholders are Chinese nationals,

Now there's an interesting statistic.... though presumably the Russians will be giving the Chinese a run for their money, in TE terms.

 

I wonder how many of the cards still end up being given out under the table as freebies to VIPs, as occurred at the outset of the program?

 

[Pib]

Here are some 2014-2022 PE stats by "fiscal" year (i.e., 1 Oct XX - 30 Sep XX)....so the stats shown run thru 30 Sep 2022.  For the last three fiscal years growth has been approx 5,000/year new PE visas issued but pre-2020 the growth level was much lower. 

 

2020, 2021, and 2022 were the three big growth years probably driven by certain nationalities (i.e., mainland and Hong Kong Chinese, Russian, etc), COVID impacts, etc.  Can the Elite visa program growth continue at approx 5K new members per year or fall back to pre-2020 levels of just a couple thousand per year? Time will tell.

 

https://www.imidaily.com/datacenter/thai-elite-visa-statistics/

 

 

[aldriglikvid]

1 hour ago, Jacques Clouseau said:

You said it yourself: it's a business. The goal of a business is to make profit. Why do you want me to make things up? Let me remind you that you are the one who posted a graph pretending their business was booming when really it is stalling at 5000/year since 2019. Or maybe you didn't notice it was cumulative data? In that case, it's an honest mistake. Frankly I don't really care. If their business is doing well, good for them. It's better than the alternative. The only thing is so far you didn't provide data to back that up. Doesn't mean you're wrong btw. But it justifies my skepticism.

 

High level revisionism here: you said program wasn't going well, when in fact it's delivering record profits and record memberships (yes, new and accumulative active members). Again, you keep going back to the "only 5k new memberships per year" as something bad or low - what do you base that on? All indications (interviews in Thai financial media etc.) is that they can't keep up with all the new members i.e. 5k is a high number; in other words, it's a good number. 

 

Let's not forget you started all this claiming that TE was a failing programme, and it certainly isn't. Secondly, Bangkok is hardly failing in a global context where it's pretty much civil war in Europe, a post war exodus from Russia, a post C19 & Xi Jingping crackdown exodus from China. And so on. 

Let's put it another way, why do you think this failing country had 3-4x uptake in applications the last 3 years? You're clueless, son. 

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

And keep in mind this video by a PE sales agent (i.e., visa agent) is full of PE visa "sales talk" so take it will a big grain of sand.

Exactly, I wouldn't believe a word of what any agent says. They're competing for big profit shares so it's in their interest to hype it up.

[Pib]

Below weblink/partial quote is from a Thailand Elite "look-alike" website and is "not" from the official Thailand Privilege Card (TPC) govt website (https://www.thailandelite.com/)    Notice the official govt website ends with a .com and below look-alike website ends with a .net.    Lots of Thailand Elite Sales Agent websites with website names very similar to the official website. 

 

But also note the look-alike website is an official Thailand Elite sales agent based in Japan (i.e., Daimaru Trading based in Sendai, Miyagi prefecture in Japan as an authorized General Sales and Services Agent (GSSA) for Thailand Elite).

 

So, with above in mind here's what below website expects price structure-wise for the new & improve PE visas.....but keep in mind the website does state the new pricing structure has "not" been officially confirmed or announced yet. 

 

 

https://www.thailandelite.net/2023/06/14/thailand-elite-new-programs/

[wordchild]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Below weblink/partial quote is from a Thailand Elite "look-alike" website and is "not" from the official Thailand Privilege Card (TPC) govt website (https://www.thailandelite.com/)    Notice the official govt website ends with a .com and below look-alike website ends with a .net.    Lots of Thailand Elite Sales Agent websites with website names very similar to the official website. 

 

But also note the look-alike website is an official Thailand Elite sales agent based in Japan (i.e., Daimaru Trading based in Sendai, Miyagi prefecture in Japan as an authorized General Sales and Services Agent (GSSA) for Thailand Elite).

 

So, with above in mind here's what below website expects price structure-wise for the new & improve PE visas.....but keep in mind the website does state the new pricing structure has "not" been officially confirmed or announced yet. 

 

 

https://www.thailandelite.net/2023/06/14/thailand-elite-new-programs/

the price for the 20 year just looks wrong; why would anyone pay 5m for a 20yr when the 15 year costs half that price?

 

 

[Pib]

46 minutes ago, wordchild said:

the price for the 20 year just looks wrong; why would anyone pay 5m for a 20yr when the 15 year costs half that price?

 

 

Maybe due to whatever new benefits will come with the new 20 year visa.  Maybe it will include X-amount of  free bar fines per year.  ????

Edited July 30, 2023 by Pib

[Caldera]

If they raise prices too aggressively, it might well end in tears. It would not be the first time that their projections are way off and based on nonsensical assumptions. 

 

I think they'll have a hard time sustaining demand at the current level anyway, as it's mostly due to special circumstances like Covid and Russian warmongering. Marketing-wise they've done what they could, so the target group is long aware it exists amd either bought one already or wasn't interested. 

 

Also, a good number of 5-year packages came up for renewal in the last few years, which created demand and generated revenue without leading to any net gain in members.

 

Then there's new visa schemes like Smart and LTR. While flawed in their own way, for those who qualify they are usually more attractive than the Elite visa.

[metisdead]

A trolling meme post and a reply has been removed.

[Pib]

 

What's a durn shame is no announcement/details has appeared on the official govt Thailand Elite website as of today/30 July 2023.   Now apparently Thailand Elite has leaked (cross fed) certain info to news agencies and Thailand Elite Sales Agents, but apparently those leaks/that cross-feed is skimpy on key details. 

 

In that Thailand Elite Youtube video post I made above (about 10 hours ago) the Sales Agent for that video states in the video comments section that Thailand Elite Sales Agents were only notified 27 July/Thursday by the govt just before the 6 day holiday period we are now in....and maybe the official govt Thailand Elite website will post something official on their website after the holidays end on 2 Aug.   

 

It seems the official govt Thailand Elite company is letting news media and sales agents initially release the news....maybe to take the initial blowback...test the waters...see what reaction current and potential Thal Elite members provide.  If the reaction is overwhelming negative blowback then the govt could backtrack before making an official announcement to implement the new visas and  just say the earlier cross-feed provided was premature/not finalized.

 

Snapshot from the youtube video comment section....note the Sales Agent comment

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Pib

[Klonko]

55 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Then there's new visa schemes like Smart and LTR. While flawed in their own way, for those who qualify they are usually more attractive than the Elite visa.

In which respect  is LTR flawed for retirees which, if they can pay for an Elite membership, probably qualify as wealthy pensioners?

[Gknrd]

Looks like they are trying to catch Malaysia prices.  

[Mike Teavee]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:28 AM, Tuvoc said:

I had planned to buy the 20 yr one at 1 million baht about 2 years from now. If that will go up by 20-30% then I have some thinking to do, it may make sense to buy now.

I'm in exactly the same position and would be interested in hearing what your considerations are. 

 

The way I look it, the obvious downside is the 1Million outlay but as I keep 800K in the bank all year round, this would "Only" be 200K which would soon recouped by:-

1. I pay an agent 8K per year to do my extension, this includes the 1,900B immigration fee so 6,100K x 20 years = 122,000 - This assumes I don't leave the country in any one calendar year which, Covid type scenarios aside, is not going to happen
2. At the same time as doing my extension I pay my Agent 4K to get me a multi-reentry permit, 4,000 x 20 = 80,000 - So that's my 200K recouped 
3. I either travel business class (80K extra for a UK Trip) OR purchase Fast Track access (1,200b each way) when transiting BKK so assume paying for fast track, 3 trips a year = 6 x 1,200 x 20 = 144,000
4. Since I've lost my Prestige Credit card I now need to pay to use the lounges, assume 3 x 1,000 x 20 - 60,000

Obviously the 800K is real money that I've spent so when the 20 years is up I won't have it to support future extensions BUT I'll be 77 then & will have been receiving my private pensions for 17 years, State Pension for 10 so have no doubt that I can put away more than enough money to meet any future "Retirement" extension financial requirements..

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[Tropposurfer]

I'm alright Jack! lol ????

Mine will last past my used by date ... Happy days ????

[JBChiangRai]

32 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

The way I look it, the obvious downside is the 1Million outlay but as I keep 800K in the bank all year round

 

The retirement extension is long overdue price increase, were it not for Covid, I think that would have increased already.

 

The befit of buying an Elite Visa is if you buy the right one it may outlast you.  I bought the 20 year (Superiority) 4 years ago, the piece of mind it gives me is priceless.

 

 

[stratocaster]

Three years ago I used Elite for my 90 day report. There were 9 people that week using their 90 day report. Due to change of address, immigration would not accept my online 90 day report last week. I got Elite to do it for me and there were 172 people using it that week.

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, stratocaster said:

Three years ago I used Elite for my 90 day report. There were 9 people that week using their 90 day report. Due to change of address, immigration would not accept my online 90 day report last week. I got Elite to do it for me and there were 172 people using it that week.

Are you implying your example shows approx a 20 fold increase in the number of people having Elite membership over 3 years.... or just an approx 20 fold increase in the number of Elite members having problems with the online reporting or simply just not wanting to use the online reporting & instead let Elite workers do the reporting?     

[aldriglikvid]

31 minutes ago, stratocaster said:

Three years ago I used Elite for my 90 day report. There were 9 people that week using their 90 day report. Due to change of address, immigration would not accept my online 90 day report last week. I got Elite to do it for me and there were 172 people using it that week.

On Reddit, Facebook and www-forums there are tons of anecdotes similar to this one: the programme is simply exploding in popularity. 

 

My friend arrived at Suvarnabhumi this friday and even though July is peak-low season there were EPAs (and their shuttle trucks) literal everywhere. 

 

Again, my bet is on a +50% across the board.

[RedCardinal]

On 7/29/2023 at 11:39 PM, aldriglikvid said:

The 20 year elite superiority extension I bought for 1m last month, not gonna sell for less than 2.5m this autumn. Just wait, son

Might want to check the small print:

[aldriglikvid]

6 minutes ago, RedCardinal said:

Might want to check the small print:

I didn't mean for me to sell it, I mean TPC probably won't sell the 20-year visas for anything below 2.5m going forwards (a forecast of mine, nothing official is said about this yet). 

[Mike Teavee]

21 hours ago, Klonko said:

In which respect  is LTR flawed for retirees which, if they can pay for an Elite membership, probably qualify as wealthy pensioners?

"Retiree" is not the same as "Pensioner" & clearly the "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR is geared more towards guys with a steady income coming from something like a Pension than those of us Retirees who are too young to receive our pensions so live on income from Rent, Dividends etc... & make up any short fall from savings.

 

That aside, I'm pretty sure that there are vastly (>10x) more Retirees/Pensioners (especially guys who already have 80% of it sat in the bank already) who could pay 1Million for an Elite membership but don't have the >$80,000 pa income & if they do have an income of $40,000, are not able/willing to invest $250,000

 

 

So no, most guys who could pay for a 1Million Elite Visa would not qualify for a "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR.... I include myself in this camp & my monthly budget is > 250K pm which would seem to be more than enough to meet the $80K pa requirement if it was based on cash you have available to spend... So YES in my view, the LTR Visa for Retirees is flawed. 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

"Retiree" is not the same as "Pensioner" & clearly the "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR is geared more towards guys with a steady income coming from something like a Pension than those of us Retirees who are too young to receive our pensions so live on income from Rent, Dividends etc... & make up any short fall from savings.

 

That aside, I'm pretty sure that there are vastly (>10x) more Retirees/Pensioners (especially guys who already have 80% of it sat in the bank already) who could pay 1Million for an Elite membership but don't have the >$80,000 pa income & if they do have an income of $40,000, are not able/willing to invest $250,000

 

 

So no, most guys who could pay for a 1Million Elite Visa would not qualify for a "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR.... I include myself in this camp & my monthly budget is > 250K pm which would seem to be more than enough to meet the $80K pa requirement if it was based on cash you have available to spend... So YES in my view, the LTR Visa for Retirees is flawed. 

 

 

 

Like your post.

LTR perhaps suits some folk however similar to yourself I have just placed the 800k in Thai bank and leave it there.

Don't give it a second thought. 

 

Annual extensions are simple and use appointment option.

 

In future when mobility becomes an issue, I will switch to agent.

 

Everyone has options that suit their situation. 

Credit to Thailand for providing those options. 

 

I'm sure some folk will continue to view PE visa as a good option especially for those some years under 50.

Basically a flop out the cash ...deal done. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by DrJack54

[Pib]

I wouldn't say the LTR program is "flawed for retirees" just because it does not include an option to substitute a large bank deposit in place of monthly passive income like for a Non-O retirement visa where  a person can use Bt800K large deposit to substitute for a Bt65K/month flow.    

 

Yes, it can be easily understood that the LTR Pensioner passive income requirement of US$80K/year without any investment required....or passive income US$40K-80K/year with US$250K investment can be considered significantly more than what many average retirees receive and/or willing to investment in Thailand. 

 

But I'm sure the Thai govt made the conscious decision to "not" include a large bank deposit option to substitute for passive income/investment.  None of the various LTR visas offer a "large bank deposit method" to completely bypass annual income requirements.  But the Pensioner visa does allow a retiree with US$40K but less than US$80K/year passive income to add-in a US$250K  "investment" in Thai govt bonds, property purchase like a condo, or foreign direct investment to meet Pensioner visa income requirement. 

 

Plus, the govt knew they already offered other retirement visa options like a Non O/OA retirement visa that offer the large bank deposit method...and of course the 10 year Non OX visa that offers a Bt3M large deposit method.  And to the best of my knowledge the 10 year Non-OX visa scheme went over like a lead balloon due to the BIG Bt3M bank deposit requirement.

 

So, actually the Thai govt offers several retirement type visas.....Non O, Non OA, Non OX, and LTR Pensioner although meeting the some of requirements for some folks can be challenging like the OA medical insurance requirement or not being at least 50 years old.  

 

And then we have the Elite Visa program where a retiree (over or under 50) with low monthly income "but" who has enough to pay the Elite visa fee from savings, by borrowing the money from a bank/family/friends/loan shark/etc., selling some owned real estate, selling their car/family jewels, etc.  As others have already said getting an Elite visa just boils down to passing an immigration police check and paying the Elite visa fee...basically, if you got the fee money then you'll get a Elite visa.

 

Yeap, various retiree visa choices with some of the visas being a good fit for some while not-so-good for others....but thank goodness there are various choices.   And yea, lowering the requirements/fees on all of the various retirement type visas (to include the Elite visas) would get more foreigners retiring to Thailand, but I'm a firm believer Thailand does not want too many foreigners and/or just any foreigner settling in Thailand.

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by BritTim
Poster erroneously used THB in place of US$ in talking about the LTR-WP visa. I corrected it for him

[Caldera]

31 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yes, it can be easily understood that the LTR Pensioner passive income requirement of Bt80K/year without any investment required....or passive income Bt40K-80K/year with Bt250K investment can be considered significantly more than what many average retirees receive and/or willing to investment in Thailand. 

 

But I'm sure the Thai govt made the conscious decision to "not" include a large bank deposit option to substitute for passive income/investment.  None of the various LTR visas offer a "large bank deposit method" to completely bypass annual income requirements.  But the Pensioner visa does allow a retiree with Bt40K but less than 80K/year passive income to add-in a Bt250K  "investment" in Thai govt bonds, property purchase like a condo, or foreign direct investment to meet Pensioner visa income requirement. 

As you're talking about the LTR visa, all those amounts are USD, not THB.

[Mike Teavee]

47 minutes ago, Pib said:

I wouldn't say the LTR program is "flawed for retirees" just because it does not include an option to substitute a large bank deposit in place of monthly passive income like for a Non-O retirement visa where  a person can use Bt800K large deposit to substitute for a Bt65K/month flow.    

 

Yes, it can be easily understood that the LTR Pensioner passive income requirement of Bt80K/year without any investment required....or passive income Bt40K-80K/year with Bt250K investment can be considered significantly more than what many average retirees receive and/or willing to investment in Thailand.

Sorry, but again... "Retiree" is not the same as "Pensioner"... 

 

Simple Question... when you were 1-2 years below your "Pension" age & retired (if you weren't retired then why not!) would you have met the Income requirements of the LTR (i.e. without your pension?).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

42 minutes ago, Pib said:

And then we have the Elite Visa program where a retiree (over or under 50) with low monthly income "but" who has enough to pay the Elite visa fee from savings, by borrowing the money from a bank/family/friends/loan shark/etc., selling some owned real estate, selling their car/family jewels, etc.  

Just wow...  ...

 

So we have Elite... Then we have PIB's I'm more elite than you... 

 

Words fail me (even the bad ones)... 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

...

Edited July 31, 2023 by Mike Teavee