Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[FritsSikkink]

On 8/8/2023 at 12:02 PM, Neeranam said:

Yet, you try to ridicule those who vote differently to yourself and how you are better educated. 

As an unbiased observer in this polarity, it is rather disturbing the supremacy views by the Biden cult. While there may be a some rednecks and truck drivers and even people who can't read, there are supporters who have very good jobs and went to better universities than you did. 

Just take a look at the posts you wrote today and think about how an impartial would see them.

My last word on the matter, cult members can't debate rationally. 

 

 

 

 

You are not unbiased. You are right that not all Trump supporters are losers, there are quite a lot of racists too.

[FritsSikkink]

22 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So that's a no, you don't know the allegations. Thanks. 

Everybody who read the indictments knows the allegations, problem is Trump supporters either don't understand or ignore them. 

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Obstruction of what?

Read the indictment, so you don't have to ask these silly questions.

[Walker88]

6 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You are not unbiased. You are right that not all Trump supporters are losers, there are quite a lot of racists too.

Yes, the poster to whom you responded is far from unbiased.

 

I, too, am biased. I am arrogant enough to think I am morally superior to racists, misogynists, antisemitics, and especially those tikitorch marchers who chant "Jews will not replace us". They are not one side of 'good people', as trump said (almost losing his economic advisor Gary Cohn that day).

 

Though perhaps unfair, I believe myself intellectually superior to those who, inter alia, believe in the QAnon drivel, use terms such as 'globalist cabal' or "Deep State", or who believe both sides of a story where 'trump declassified in his mind' and 'the FBI planted them'.  Also, I consider myself a good enough judge of character and intent that a guy who calls his supporters to DC for 6 January and says 'it'll be wild', and who later tells them to 'march to the Capitol', and 'fight like hell' and 'you'll never get back your country with weakness' wasn't suggesting his goobers go to the Capitol gift shop to buy souvenirs.

 

Along the same vein, and having observed trump's style for far too long, I know his intent when---in a speech in New Hampshire this week---he talks of opponent Chris Christie, saying "he's probably eating right now", and follows with "Don't call him a fat pig. You can't do it. You can't do that. So now, because you're not allowed to do that, and, therefore, we're not going to do it, OK? We want to be very civil, right?" Trump said as he chuckled. (From Fox News https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-mockery-christies-weight-takes-230558345.html).

 

Pretty clear what trump's intent is, which is funny in itself, as it doesn not look as if trump has ever missed a meal nor seen the inside of a gym.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

Yes, you did. You equated the inadvertent possession of classified docs by Pence and Biden with the willful theft of documents by trump.

 

I use 'theft' because 1) he said he took the docs, and 2) he had no right to take the docs. Lacking a right to take something is defined as 'theft'.

 

He added to the crime by lying, saying he returned everything. Fortunately, the DoJ and FBI did not believe him (one suspects a cooperating witness), so they obtained a warrant, searched his country club, and found he still had more than a hundred highly classified documents.

You're making things up again. This is what I responded to: 

Even if what you say were true, it has nothing to do with my post. 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

It's just another term for lying.

 

trump claimed he returned everything. He lied. That is obstructing the legal and legitimate work of the DoJ and FBI.

Lying is not illegal. 

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So, he was only illegally in possession of a "handful" of classified documents, thanks.  How many can one have before it becomes a crime? 

 

When were they discovered? He sent a team of lawyers to get them. 

 

 

 

 

You have no memory. The chronology of the Biden classified documents has now been posted here several times. 

 

More to the point, Trump *hid* classified documents, but not a peep from you about that. 

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Lying is not illegal. 

Lying to the FBI/federal agent is in fact a crime.

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Lying is not illegal. 

Trump did plenty of stuff that is illegal, so what's your point? Are you just randomly spouting comments in the hope that people forget that Trump has been indicted three times?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

You have no memory. The chronology of the Biden classified documents has now been posted here several times. 

Which does not change the fact that he was only illegally in possession of classified documents, thanks. Is that correct or not.

Just now, Danderman123 said:

 

More to the point, Trump *hid* classified documents, but not a peep from you about that. 

I do not disagree that Trump hid documents. And if he had state secrets that he was using or planning to use for nefarious reasons I would like him tried for treason and if found guilty, executed. 

 

He has a dispute with the archives over what he wants to keep and what they want back. 

 

 

[earlinclaifornia]

42 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Yes, the poster to whom you responded is far from unbiased.

 

I, too, am biased. I am arrogant enough to think I am morally superior to racists, misogynists, antisemitics, and especially those tikitorch marchers who chant "Jews will not replace us". They are not one side of 'good people', as trump said (almost losing his economic advisor Gary Cohn that day).

 

Though perhaps unfair, I believe myself intellectually superior to those who, inter alia, believe in the QAnon drivel, use terms such as 'globalist cabal' or "Deep State", or who believe both sides of a story where 'trump declassified in his mind' and 'the FBI planted them'.  Also, I consider myself a good enough judge of character and intent that a guy who calls his supporters to DC for 6 January and says 'it'll be wild', and who later tells them to 'march to the Capitol', and 'fight like hell' and 'you'll never get back your country with weakness' wasn't suggesting his goobers go to the Capitol gift shop to buy souvenirs.

 

Along the same vein, and having observed trump's style for far too long, I know his intent when---in a speech in New Hampshire this week---he talks of opponent Chris Christie, saying "he's probably eating right now", and follows with "Don't call him a fat pig. You can't do it. You can't do that. So now, because you're not allowed to do that, and, therefore, we're not going to do it, OK? We want to be very civil, right?" Trump said as he chuckled. (From Fox News https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-mockery-christies-weight-takes-230558345.html).

 

Pretty clear what trump's intent is, which is funny in itself, as it doesn not look as if trump has ever missed a meal nor seen the inside of a gym.

 

Honestly the reality of a Trump supporter is entertaining at best.

[FritsSikkink]

48 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Yes, the poster to whom you responded is far from unbiased.

 

I, too, am biased. I am arrogant enough to think I am morally superior to racists, misogynists, antisemitics, and especially those tikitorch marchers who chant "Jews will not replace us". They are not one side of 'good people', as trump said (almost losing his economic advisor Gary Cohn that day).

 

Though perhaps unfair, I believe myself intellectually superior to those who, inter alia, believe in the QAnon drivel, use terms such as 'globalist cabal' or "Deep State", or who believe both sides of a story where 'trump declassified in his mind' and 'the FBI planted them'.  Also, I consider myself a good enough judge of character and intent that a guy who calls his supporters to DC for 6 January and says 'it'll be wild', and who later tells them to 'march to the Capitol', and 'fight like hell' and 'you'll never get back your country with weakness' wasn't suggesting his goobers go to the Capitol gift shop to buy souvenirs.

 

Along the same vein, and having observed trump's style for far too long, I know his intent when---in a speech in New Hampshire this week---he talks of opponent Chris Christie, saying "he's probably eating right now", and follows with "Don't call him a fat pig. You can't do it. You can't do that. So now, because you're not allowed to do that, and, therefore, we're not going to do it, OK? We want to be very civil, right?" Trump said as he chuckled. (From Fox News https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-mockery-christies-weight-takes-230558345.html).

 

Pretty clear what trump's intent is, which is funny in itself, as it doesn not look as if trump has ever missed a meal nor seen the inside of a gym.

 

The mockery is childish but not too worrying. The real big problem is that people are getting death threats by his moronic supporters: Trump's threatening post flagged by U.S. prosecutors to judge | Reuters      Trump shares sinister new video issuing apocalyptic threat to anyone who ‘f***s around with us’ | The Independent

[HappyExpat57]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Lying is not illegal. 

NO no no no no no! It depends on to whom you are lying. Turns out 45 recently lied about many aspects of the 2020 election in a commercial designed to raise money, and that's flat out illegal. It appears that Jack Smith is looking very seriously at that. The traffic cone of treason's house of cards is tumbling right before our very eyes.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

You have no memory. The chronology of the Biden classified documents has now been posted here several times. 

 

More to the point, Trump *hid* classified documents, but not a peep from you about that. 

I guess he has a good memory. He's just asking questions, to which he already knows the answer, to make other posters waste their time.

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Lying is not illegal. 

What a silly thing to say. Lying is illegal whenever it is used to commit or hide a crime. So this includes lying to get welfare, to get a loan, to commit fraud or many material things including your taxes. You can't lie under oath, you can't lie to the police or lie about a crime you witnessed and last but not least, you can't lie when you are involved in a federal investigation. 

[jerrymahoney]

2 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Spoken like a true 45 supporter, using those doggoned alternative facts.

The allegations in the indictment are not violations of the charges until a jury says that they are.

 

As I have said too often before I voted agains Trump twice. I am just a realist as to how the law works in complex trials.

Edited August 9, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Yellowtail]

45 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

What a silly thing to say. Lying is illegal whenever it is used to commit or hide a crime. So this includes lying to get welfare, to get a loan, to commit fraud or many material things including your taxes. You can't lie under oath, you can't lie to the police or lie about a crime you witnessed and last but not least, you can't lie when you are involved in a federal investigation. 

What about lying to buy a handgun? 

[johnnybangkok]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What about lying to buy a handgun? 

Deflection at it's finest. At least you're consistent.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Which does not change the fact that he was only illegally in possession of classified documents, thanks. Is that correct or not.

 

No, not correct he is caught on tape sharing that classified material with other people who should never get access to it AND admitting that they weren't declassified. Sharing classified documents with people who can't have access makes you a traitor, end of.

Edited August 9, 2023 by FritsSikkink

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Lying is not illegal. 

Actually, lying to the DoJ and FBI are crimes.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Which does not change the fact that he was only illegally in possession of classified documents, thanks. Is that correct or not.

I do not disagree that Trump hid documents. And if he had state secrets that he was using or planning to use for nefarious reasons I would like him tried for treason and if found guilty, executed. 

 

He has a dispute with the archives over what he wants to keep and what they want back. 

 

 

The Presidential Records Act is quite clear as to what Trump can keep. Probably Trump will get back his personal stuff at some point after the trial.

 

What he can't keep are the national security documents.

 

As for Biden and Pence, since they did not willfully possess classified documents, its not illegal. 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

What about lying to buy a handgun? 

Geez man, your entire defense of Trump is that lying is ok?  Is that how you live your life, lying whenever it suits you?  If not, why would you support a known liar?  I honestly don't get you guys.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I do not disagree that Trump hid documents. And if he had state secrets that he was using or planning to use for nefarious reasons I would like him tried for treason and if found guilty, executed. 

 

 

Yeah, but you are going to forget this overnight, and tomorrow you are going to ask again "why is only Trump being charged for having classified documents?".

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

]

 

He has a dispute with the archives over what he wants to keep and what they want back. 

 

 

No. There is no dispute with the archives over TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD. trump had no right to them. He has no security clearance for one, and two, such docs are required to be held in a SCIF.

 

Nobody has an explanation for why a country club owner should need such documents. No security clearance means he cannot even see them anymore. RD is Restricted Data, related to nuclear issues, and requires a nuke clearance (known, ironically, as a Q Clearance), and not even a POTUS can declassify RD docs. Only the DoE can, as it is assumed they are much more well versed on nuclear issues than any POTUS.

 

HCS docs are Human Clandestine Sources, as in spies. Even as a sitting POTUS, no need to know identities of clandestine assets. For trump to have those suggests he was given them by one of his appointees. No way DCI Haspel would have done that, so more likely he got them from one of his DNI appointees Grenell or Ratcliffe. That is really bad, because clandestine assets, or potential assets, would see how cavalier a POTUS was with their identities. That puts such assets and their families in danger. That could mean loss of access by US intel, which could mean missing a planned terrorist attack or actions by an adversarial state.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Actually, lying to the DoJ and FBI are crimes.

Only under specific instances, but as an ex-CIA operative you likely already knew that.  

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

No, not correct he is caught on tape sharing that classified material with other people who should never get access to it AND admitting that they weren't declassified. Sharing classified documents with people who can't have access makes you a traitor, end of.

So is was legal for Biden to have classified documents for years, but not for Trump? 

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So is was legal for Biden to have classified documents for years, but not for Trump? 

How many times do you have to be told this? it is only illegal if the person is willfully in possession of the documents. You don't seem to understand the difference between rules and laws. The rules do say you have to go through a procedure to keep documents in your possession. But you have to willfully violate those rules for possession to be a crime. So, Biden's possession of those documents may have violated the rules, but there is no evidence that he willfully violated them. Whereas in Trump's case, there is a superabundance of evidence.

Edited August 9, 2023 by placeholder

[tilaceer]

30 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So is was legal for Biden to have classified documents for years, but not for Trump? 

Funny how Trumpers never mention that Pence also had classified documents.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So is was legal for Biden to have classified documents for years, but not for Trump? 

Not tired of trolling?

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Only under specific instances, but as an ex-CIA operative you likely already knew that.  

Cute.

 

Under all incidences lying to the FBI when under investigation is a crime. trump was under investigation for stealing classified docs.

 

trump committed a crime.

 

As for agency and bureau, we operate at arms length. The bureau takes charge when it involves a US Person. The agency can take charge when it involves a foreign national. For example, I could identify you through your post here, even if you are using a VPN or TOR. Within seconds, I could access your tax records, bank records, credit card purchases. club or magazine or newspaper memberships, your browsing history, etc. I could get your phone records, all calls, all messages, and even geolocate your movement 24/7, pull up next to you in a restaurant or knock on your door, and say, "Hi, yellowtail".. The capabilities are astonishing. Terrorists know all that and use throwaway SIM cards and vary their online locations.

 

If you are a US Person, however, the agency would not be allowed to do that. The bureau, OTOH, could obtain a warrant (if, for example, you visited some kiddie porn sites), get a full profile of you as noted above, and monitor all of your activity. Doesn't matter if you have iPhone or Android or a laptop.