Retirement visa overhaul in the wind, gangs run out of town : Tim Newton Today - August 2

[webfact]

 

Changes in the wind for at least the Thailand Elite visas and, it appears, O or OA visas (retirement visas) in the future, motorcycle gangs being kicked out of Thailand, the BMA blames the Ashton Asoke developers for the problems with access to the property, Srettha Thavisin - Pheu Thai candidate for PM this Friday - says he's backed down on his previous support for amendments to Thailand's Lese Majeste laws, a Move Forward MP is asking questions about how the stored fireworks in Narathiwat was able to sneak past authorities in the area, and some background about today's start of the Buddhis Lent in Thailand.

 

Tim Newton Today is a daily take on Thai and regional news and issues of interest to expats and foreign tourists.

 

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[grain]

For a couple of years now I've been expecting the retirement ext requirements to change. My guess is the 800K will see a 50% jump to 1,2M, perhaps even doubled to 1,6M. Police clearances from our home countries could also become a condition for extensions, plus compulsory health insurance. Anyway, these are just my guesses. If such changes did come in hopefully we'll get grandfathered on the existing regulations. If not it'll be adios Thailand for many of us.

[smedly]

31 minutes ago, grain said:

For a couple of years now I've been expecting the retirement ext requirements to change. My guess is the 800K will see a 50% jump to 1,2M, perhaps even doubled to 1,6M. Police clearances from our home countries could also become a condition for extensions, plus compulsory health insurance. Anyway, these are just my guesses. If such changes did come in hopefully we'll get grandfathered on the existing regulations. If not it'll be adios Thailand for many of us.

nonsense

 

you might see a clampdown on agent use and maybe criminal check but that's about it, I don't see a change in thesholds and even if it does change there are still people here on money thresholds from 20 years ago as they were grandfathered

Edited August 2, 2023 by smedly

[proton]

All speculation, but whatever they do re the requirements they need to close the loophole allowing officers to take bribes to ignore them, as well as extensions being issued to those from other provinces. If they don't, upping the requirements will just increase the corrupt agents business

Edited August 2, 2023 by proton

[redwood1]

56 minutes ago, smedly said:

nonsense

 

you might see a clampdown on agent use and maybe criminal check but that's about it, I don't see a change in thesholds and even if it does change there are still people here on money thresholds from 20 years ago as they were grandfathered

The grandfathering you speak of from way back, is to my knowlage the last time anything visa wise has been grandfathered.....

[redwood1]

So would requiring 1.2 million instead of 800,000 prove anything or help anyone?........Nope it sure would not....It would just tie up more money that could not be spent in the economy....

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

So would requiring 1.2 million instead of 800,000 prove anything or help anyone?........Nope it sure would not....It would just tie up more money that could not be spent in the economy....

I get what you're saying about freezing money expats might spend, but on the other hand money in the bank is circulated to the economy by the banks.

[Jingthing]

I'm making no predictions either way.

I think TNT oversold this news.

[proton]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm making no predictions either way.

I think TNT oversold this news.

Many have their fingers crossed, the ones who keep saying there is too much (corrupt) money involved and that nothing will change. They said that 20 years ago when they stopped the ghost visa runs, in fact is that not what George of Thai visa was up to in Suk soi 15- agents taking the passports on a visa run while the holders stayed at home? The fact that over 100 immigration officers were arrested this year gives some hope to changing things to a fair and honest system.

[smedly]

53 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

The grandfathering you speak of from way back, is to my knowlage the last time anything visa wise has been grandfathered.....

as far as i know that was to only change to thresholds

 

 

as for clamping down on bad actors - they may do criminal checks on certain people, increasing financial requirements contributes nothing to keeping criminals out of the country, also there are many people staying here (almost everyone i know) that use agents to circumvent the financial requirements, there is a high possibilty that they will clamp down on that

[Hanaguma]

Malaysia recently did a big overhaul of the MM2H program and it has seen numbers drop significantly.  Makes places like the Phils and Cambodia look more attractive by the day. Heck in Cambodia all it takes is $170 for a one year visa.  No signing in, no reporting, and it is multiple re-entry as well. I think in the Philippines you just need $10,000 for your visa. Or you can pretty much stay for 3 years by renewing and renewing your original visa free entry. 

 

A mistake IMHO if the financial requirements in Thailand are raised. Stricter enforcement, perhaps making the rules less subject to regional variations and the whims of individual immigrantion officers, those would make sense. 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Malaysia recently did a big overhaul of the MM2H program and it has seen numbers drop significantly.  Makes places like the Phils and Cambodia look more attractive by the day. Heck in Cambodia all it takes is $170 for a one year visa.  No signing in, no reporting, and it is multiple re-entry as well. I think in the Philippines you just need $10,000 for your visa. Or you can pretty much stay for 3 years by renewing and renewing your original visa free entry. 

 

A mistake IMHO if the financial requirements in Thailand are raised. Stricter enforcement, perhaps making the rules less subject to regional variations and the whims of individual immigrantion officers, those would make sense. 

About Malaysia. 

There are loopholes. 

Much lower requirements for Surawak and coming soon similar for Sabah.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, proton said:

All speculation, but whatever they do re the requirements they need to close the loophole allowing officers to take bribes to ignore them, as well as extensions being issued to those from other provinces. If they don't, upping the requirements will just increase the corrupt agents business

A feature, not a bug.

[Lucky Bones]

3 hours ago, grain said:

For a couple of years now I've been expecting the retirement ext requirements to change. My guess is the 800K will see a 50% jump to 1,2M, perhaps even doubled to 1,6M. Police clearances from our home countries could also become a condition for extensions, plus compulsory health insurance. Anyway, these are just my guesses. If such changes did come in hopefully we'll get grandfathered on the existing regulations. If not it'll be adios Thailand for many of us.

Thailand loves shooting itself in the foot.

Terrified of aliens.????????

[brewsterbudgen]

2 hours ago, proton said:

All speculation, but whatever they do re the requirements they need to close the loophole allowing officers to take bribes to ignore them, as well as extensions being issued to those from other provinces. If they don't, upping the requirements will just increase the corrupt agents business

What do you mean by "extensions being issued to those from other provinces"?

[bkk6060]

I bet they never clamp down on agents.  In fact, they will set it up that more will need to use them.  Too much money!

[proton]

30 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What do you mean by "extensions being issued to those from other provinces"?

Common practice for visa agents to bribe officers to issue extensions from a province applicants do not live in, either because they do not have the corrupt contacts where you are, or it's cheaper to get them elsewhere, usually up country offices. 

[proton]

26 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I bet they never clamp down on agents.  In fact, they will set it up that more will need to use them.  Too much money!

I common hope/fallacy just wait and see!

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, proton said:

Common practice for visa agents to bribe officers to issue extensions from a province applicants do not live in, either because they do not have the corrupt contacts where you are, or it's cheaper to get them elsewhere, usually up country offices. 

Perhaps but then aren't the expats sometimes locked into using that agent for future matters? Doesn't that complicate address reporting?

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

So would requiring 1.2 million instead of 800,000 prove anything or help anyone?........Nope it sure would not....It would just tie up more money that could not be spent in the economy....

What about using 65k a month.

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What about using 65k a month.

Obviously if they do raise the 800K in the bank number they will also raise the income requirement to match. 

[Mike Teavee]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What about using 65k a month.

Presumably if they up the deposit to 1.2Million, they’ll up the 65K to 100K pm

 

Thats a significant income to have to have each month, especially as it needs to be Nett of all taxes & any expenses in your home country (approx. £31,500 pa before tax or £2,308b pm after tax).

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

Presumably if they up the deposit to 1.2Million, they’ll up the 65K to 100K pm

 

Thats a significant income to have to have each month, especially as it needs to be Nett of all taxes & any expenses in your home country (approx. £31,500 pa before tax or £2,308b pm after tax).

Yeah, very few people on U.S. social security would qualify.

[kuzie57]

19 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What about using 65k a month.

On that premise you would be looking at 100k PM. Total speculation. 

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, kuzie57 said:

On that premise you would be looking at 100k PM. Total speculation. 

 

Logically if they raise the financial requirements, it will apply to bank and income. Hopefully they won't raise it at all. Learn from Malaysia who trashed their own program. 

[Neeranam]

Let's hope those biker gangs are kicked out for good, or at least not allowed to wear their colours. The last thing I want in Thailand is to see Banditos or Hell's Angel criminals. Foreigners should respect Thai culture and these outlaws certainly don't. 

Perhaps retirement visas should be made reciprocal with the rest of the world. Thailand has developed a lot in the past decade and visa fees remained the same, and currently it is far from fair when a Thai must pay invest 17 million baht in the US to get a retirement visa, and it's very hard in the UK. I'd say at least 10 million baht for those from the US in the bank at all times, until the US government reciprocates. As for Brits and Australian, they should  show at least 150k baht a month in pension, again unless their governments reciprocate. Retirees in Thailand have had it easy too long and the police are not happy with all the foreign crime, so anyone with a criminal record should not get a long-term stay.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, very few people on U.S. social security would qualify.

Do you think Thais on social security can into your USA? 

[Neeranam]

59 minutes ago, proton said:

Common practice for visa agents to bribe officers to issue extensions from a province applicants do not live in, either because they do not have the corrupt contacts where you are, or it's cheaper to get them elsewhere, usually up country offices. 

Let's hope they do away with visa agents and lock up those who use them and make it difficult for the honest retirees. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Neeranam
spelling

[Mike Teavee]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Let's hop they do away with visa agents and lock up those who use them and make it difficult for the honest retirees. 

There are a lot of Honest Retirees that use Agents to do their Extensions simply for the convenience & knowledge that it will get done without fuss. 

 

Maybe if I had more confidence that the IO on the day would strictly adhere to the printed requirements/rules I'd do it myself but until then I'll continue to pay my agent 6,100b on top of the 1,900b immigration fee to complete all my paperwork, check my banking documents are in order (they caught amalgamated entries that I missed one year & took me to the bank to get the statements I needed) & make sure that any photographs, maps to condo etc... meet the requirements. 

 

Others choose to spend the < 17b it costs per day on other things... Too each his own... 

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

There are a lot of Honest Retirees that use Agents to do their Extensions simply for the convenience & knowledge that it will get done without fuss. 

 

Maybe if I had more confidence that the IO on the day would strictly adhere to the printed requirements/rules I'd do it myself but until then I'll continue to pay my agent 6,100b on top of the 1,900b immigration fee to complete all my paperwork, check my banking documents are in order (they caught amalgamated entries that I missed one year & took me to the bank to get the statements I needed) & make sure that any photographs, maps to condo etc... meet the requirements. 

 

Others choose to spend the < 17b it costs per day on other things... Too each his own... 

 

 

OK, but I am talking about the ones that pay 15,000 + baht to agents who bribe immigration police to bypass immigration requirements.