Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[topt]

7 hours ago, quake said:

 

The one I use Andica is about 16 GBP +vat.

I use it for uk rental and pension income.

full list of approved providers, below.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-commercial-software-suppliers/self-assessment-online-commercial-software-suppliers#andica-limited

 

 

Thanks.

I went through that pretty much all that list fairly recently to try and identify what if any I may use this year. I have a list of 7 from it under £20 which included Andica. 

 

Can you confirm how you file as I believe you download their software which is what I prefer vs. the cloud based providers?

Any negatives?

[quake]

1 hour ago, topt said:

Thanks.

I went through that pretty much all that list fairly recently to try and identify what if any I may use this year. I have a list of 7 from it under £20 which included Andica. 

 

Can you confirm how you file as I believe you download their software which is what I prefer vs. the cloud based providers?

Any negatives?

 

I just buy the software on visa card.

They send you a receipt and a password and a link to down load the software. ( via email )

I don't use the cloud ( that I know of for anything )

 

Not saying Andica is the best, but when I first did this, think Andica was the first on the list. there seams to be a lot more choices there now.

but I happy with the way it works. so carried on with them

 

Just fill in the pages all straightforward, it gives you the choice to do a live submit of form, Or just keep all date and submit it when you like, using your HMRC Gateway account number or login number, forgot witch one, maybe both.

you can go in and edit any mistakes and re-submit at any time. ( all done inside this software)

 

I have not been asked for any supporting documents, but at the end you can send stuff in PDF format. ( they say don't send unless asked).

You can also down load a copy of your return, in PDF or word.

 

I keep all my data in PDF format. 

When HMRC get there act together, with quarterly submissions.  (for landlords)

it maybe better to do it all online.

well they keep saying there will do that. 

 

Edited March 17 by quake

[topt]

6 hours ago, quake said:

When HMRC get there act together, with quarterly submissions.  (for landlords)

it maybe better to do it all online.

well they keep saying there will do that.

Recent article here - https://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2024/2/hmrc-admits-making-tax-digital-will-cost-landlords-money-and-time

 

Thanks for the Andica review 

[bugger bognor]

Can anybody clarify that all expats residing here will all have to register for a TIN and file a tax return next year by law? or will it be voluntary ? 

[Mike Lister]

24 minutes ago, bugger bognor said:

Can anybody clarify that all expats residing here will all have to register for a TIN and file a tax return next year by law? or will it be voluntary ? 

It will vary from person to person, depending on whether or not you are tax resident (180+days per calendar year) and on how much assessible income you transfer into the country. You may wish to read the Simple Tax Guide to understand your own situation.

[SHA 2 BKK]

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It will vary from person to person, depending on whether or not you are tax resident (180+days per calendar year) and on how much assessible income you transfer into the country. You may wish to read the Simple Tax Guide to understand your own situation.

Further LTR Visa (excluding those earning a Thai income) have been advised there is no need to lodge a Tax Return and therefore no need for a TIN, but as Mike says circumstances will differ and best read the Guide.

[siam55]

I have a question about it. if I transfer money to my wife to her account in Thailand as a gift, up to 20 mio. ฿ there are no taxes to pay. Once they arrived in my wife's account, she promptly paid them to my account in Thailand (local transfer). Then I should be exempt from taxes.

[jacko45k]

On 3/19/2024 at 7:30 PM, siam55 said:

I have a question about it. if I transfer money to my wife to her account in Thailand as a gift, up to 20 mio. ฿ there are no taxes to pay. Once they arrived in my wife's account, she promptly paid them to my account in Thailand (local transfer). Then I should be exempt from taxes.

So the unearned income you received from your wife is tax free for what reason?

[Sigmund]

Make arrangements  and stay only for 178 days each year. Then do the remaining months in a country next door.  Issue solved, But agree that it's difficult if one has been around for some time.

[Mike Lister]

On 3/19/2024 at 7:30 PM, siam55 said:

I have a question about it. if I transfer money to my wife to her account in Thailand as a gift, up to 20 mio. ฿ there are no taxes to pay. Once they arrived in my wife's account, she promptly paid them to my account in Thailand (local transfer). Then I should be exempt from taxes.

 

9 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

So the unearned income you received from your wife is tax free for what reason?

I don't think that is unearned income. But I do think that's tax evasion because the gift wasn't really a gift because she gave it back to you.

[Ben Zioner]

Found this post on the LTR thread, the video seems to confirm that all the little schemes imagined here will not work. No mention of the "gifts", but it is said that whatever money you remit to your MIL, or any other charity, will be taxable. Even my little scheme of remitting every now and then, during years I wouldn't be tax residents would be dismissed.

 

The only way to avoided taxation being the LTR visa.

 

Also for those who are taxed at the source overseas, the paperwork will be daunting, especially for those who have non english paperwork. Enjoy 2024, 2025 will be a nightmare. Or run before next year.

Edited March 25 by Ben Zioner

[JohnnyBD]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Even my little scheme of remitting every now and then, during years I wouldn't be tax residents would be dismissed.

 

The only way to avoided taxation being the LTR visa.

If your scheme involves income earned when you were a tax resident, but remitted in a year when you stayed out of the country just long enough not to be a tax resident, then I guess it could be viewed as a scheme to avoid paying Thai income taxes. After all, it's supposed to be on the honor system and it's up to you to report your assessable income. I'm sure there are many expats who legitimately are not tax residents every year, so they will need to decide for themselves if the monies they remit when they are not a tax resident are assessable or not.

Edited March 25 by JohnnyBD
typos

[MartinBangkok]

15 hours ago, Sigmund said:

Make arrangements  and stay only for 178 days each year. Then do the remaining months in a country next door.  Issue solved, But agree that it's difficult if one has been around for some time.

I'm running. Moving to another SE-Asian country first week of April. This after 15 years living in Thailand, spending approximately 2.1 million Baht a year (about 70% of my foreign income) in this country (multiple BMWs, Ducatis, Hondas, not to mention local girls, restaurants, nightlife, golf!)

After the new tax rules were announced last year I have completely stopped spending money in this country. For golf I now only go to the local navy driving range and pay 20 Baht for a tray of 40 balls instead of thousands to pay courses where Thais get to play for a fraction of the price, not kidding, it's the hidden truth.

There is zero chance I will ever pay the equivalent of 1 Baht tax to a country which gives me zero in return and where the only thing it gives me is a shocking amount of discrimination as a Farang. A month ago I was sent to Malaysia by my company for a 1 week assignment. What a wake up call. The people there (including government officials and police) so genuinly sincere and friendly. Another stratosphere compared to Thailand.

Bye Thailand (I recommend those of you reading this carefully consider if Thailand is still worth it)

Edited March 25 by MartinBangkok
One misspelled word

[Neeranam]

15 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I don't think that is unearned income. But I do think that's tax evasion because the gift wasn't really a gift because she gave it back to you.

It would make sense to give money from my UK income direct to my kids. No point sending to my bank then giving it to them here. Do you have any details about giving gifts to Thai citizens at university?

[Neeranam]

20 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

I'm running. Moving to another SE-Asian country first week of April. This after 15 years living in Thailand, spending approximately 2.1 million Baht a year (about 70% of my foreign income) in this country (multiple BMWs, Ducatis, Hondas, not to mention local girls, restaurants, nightlife, golf!)

After the new tax rules were announced last year I have completely stopped spending money in this country. For golf I now only go to the local navy driving range and pay 20 Baht for a tray of 40 balls instead of thousands to pay courses where Thais get to play for a fraction of the price, not kidding, it's the hidden truth.

There is zero chance I will ever pay the equivalent of 1 Baht tax to a country which gives me zero in return and where the only thing it gives me is a shocking amount of discrimination as a Farang. A month ago I was sent to Malaysia by my company for a 1 week assignment. What a wake up call. The people there (including government officials and police) so genuinly sincere and friendly. Another stratosphere compared to Thailand.

Bye Thailand (I recommend those of you reading this carefully consider if Thailand is still worth it)

Rather over the top. There must be other reasons you are not happy here.

The course I play in Hua Hin only give 100 baht discount to me for being a Thai, hardly going to break the bank, 

Btw, I was charged 5,000 baht more than my pal at Royal Melbourne Golf club for being a foreigner. 

Edited March 25 by Neeranam

[MartinBangkok]

40 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Rather over the top. There must be other reasons you are not happy here.

The course I play in Hua Hin only give 100 baht discount to me for being a Thai, hardly going to break the bank, 

Btw, I was charged 5,000 baht more than my pal at Royal Melbourne Golf club for being a foreigner. 

Does a Farang in Thailand need any more reasons than those I outlined? 

I can continue since you are not satisfied:

How about been treated as a criminal, having to report to the police in two different provinces every time you leave your home (habitat province) for more than 24 hours, how about reporting to immigration officers every 90 days (more than a criminal on parole in my country), how about getting charged double, or up to 10 times the amount of a Thai just because you have white skin (Farang), how about local people regularly speaking bad about you behind your back thinking you don't understand Thai, how about having to produce an annual criminal record from your home country (work permit), even if you haven't lived there for 15 years (you've been living in Thailand!), how about having to produce a medical record annually (for work permit) confirming you don't have 7 different sexual diseases (are Thais (and immigration officials) allowed to live in Thailand with any of these diseases)?, how about being appallingly discriminated on the property market?, how about having to pay exorbitant prices for quality goods from Farang-land because Thailand and Thais are unable to produce quality goods?, how about living in a country where local food, environment and air quality is a direct threat to your health due to mismanagement and an insane level of corruption?

Do you want me to continue?

Edited March 25 by MartinBangkok
grammatical

[Neeranam]

40 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

Does a Farang in Thailand need any more reasons than those I outlined? 

I can continue since you are not satisfied:

How about been treated as a criminal, having to report to the police in two different provinces every time you leave your home (habitat province) for more than 24 hours, how about reporting to immigration officers every 90 days (more than a criminal on parole in my country), how about getting charged double, or up to 10 times the amount of a Thai just because you have white skin (Farang), how about local people regularly speaking bad about you behind your back thinking you don't understand Thai, how about having to produce an annual criminal record from your home country (work permit), even if you haven't lived there for 15 years (you've been living in Thailand!), how about having to produce a medical record annually (for work permit) confirming you don't have 7 different sexual diseases (are Thais (and immigration officials) allowed to live in Thailand with any of these diseases)?, how about being appallingly discriminated on the property market?, how about having to pay exorbitant prices for quality goods from Farang-land because Thailand and Thais are unable to produce quality goods?, how about living in a country where local food, environment and air quality is a direct threat to your health due to mismanagement and an insane level of corruption?

Do you want me to continue?

As I thought, it's not the risk of paying tax that has got your goat. 

[still kicking]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

As I thought, it's not the risk of paying tax that has got your goat. 

But he is right I moved away from Thailand because of that, just because you have Thai citizenship it does not make it right.

[MartinBangkok]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

As I thought, it's not the risk of paying tax that has got your goat. 

It was the defining last straw.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, MartinBangkok said:

Does a Farang in Thailand need any more reasons than those I outlined? 

I can continue since you are not satisfied:

How about been treated as a criminal, having to report to the police in two different provinces every time you leave your home (habitat province) for more than 24 hours, how about reporting to immigration officers every 90 days (more than a criminal on parole in my country), how about getting charged double, or up to 10 times the amount of a Thai just because you have white skin (Farang), how about local people regularly speaking bad about you behind your back thinking you don't understand Thai, how about having to produce an annual criminal record from your home country (work permit), even if you haven't lived there for 15 years (you've been living in Thailand!), how about having to produce a medical record annually (for work permit) confirming you don't have 7 different sexual diseases (are Thais (and immigration officials) allowed to live in Thailand with any of these diseases)?, how about being appallingly discriminated on the property market?, how about having to pay exorbitant prices for quality goods from Farang-land because Thailand and Thais are unable to produce quality goods?, how about living in a country where local food, environment and air quality is a direct threat to your health due to mismanagement and an insane level of corruption?

Do you want me to continue?

This thread is not about any of those things, you are way off topic!

[SingAPorn]

No matter on what type of visa in Thailand, you stay less then 180 days of the fiscal tax year, no issues or no need to file any tax rubbis. This at least is clearly established. Or am I also wrong here ?

Edited March 25 by SingAPorn

[UKresonant]

18 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

No matter on what type of visa in Thailand, you stay less then 180 days of the fiscal tax year, no issues or no need to file any tax rubbis. This at least is clearly established. Or am I also wrong here ?

Unless it's earned in Thailand, like lots of bank interest. 

(I hope they don't change that 180 day in year definition)

[UKresonant]

3 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Does a Farang in Thailand need any more reasons than those I outlined? 

I can continue since you are not satisfied:

How about been treated as a criminal, having to report to the police in two different provinces every time you leave your home (habitat province) for more than 24 hours, how about reporting to immigration officers every 90 days (more than a criminal on parole in my country), how about getting charged double, or up to 10 times the amount of a Thai just because you have white skin (Farang), how about local people regularly speaking bad about you behind your back thinking you don't understand Thai, how about having to produce an annual criminal record from your home country (work permit), even if you haven't lived there for 15 years (you've been living in Thailand!), how about having to produce a medical record annually (for work permit) confirming you don't have 7 different sexual diseases (are Thais (and immigration officials) allowed to live in Thailand with any of these diseases)?, how about being appallingly discriminated on the property market?, how about having to pay exorbitant prices for quality goods from Farang-land because Thailand and Thais are unable to produce quality goods?, how about living in a country where local food, environment and air quality is a direct threat to your health due to mismanagement and an insane level of corruption?

Do you want me to continue?

Two quite posts, good summary, especially the TM30 thing. 

 

The Tax Thing does add to the gradient of negatives, 17 months of 24 months still do-able perhaps in Thailand.

 

A visit to Malaysia sounds interesting. 

 

Not sure the 'local food' being a threat, a lot less so than in the past, like early 90's when I was first there. It does worry sometimes when I ask how much sugar is in that and you get a 'no idea' response. Just have to be selective like anywhere else. Plenty of healthy stuff if you seek them out and also that under Japanese brands. 

Edited March 25 by UKresonant

[Aviatorhi]

On 3/19/2024 at 12:30 PM, siam55 said:

I have a question about it. if I transfer money to my wife to her account in Thailand as a gift, up to 20 mio. ฿ there are no taxes to pay. Once they arrived in my wife's account, she promptly paid them to my account in Thailand (local transfer). Then I should be exempt from taxes.

That's definitley tax evasion (appearance of it anyway) - and if your funds were already taxed then Thailand has no intention of taxing them again. Keep your returns, keep your receipts, do big boy things. The degrees of complication you guys are coming up with to avoid taxes which you are already exempt from (on the basis of having already paid tax on the funds) is absolutley hilarious.

Edited March 25 by Aviatorhi

[Celsius]

3 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Does a Farang in Thailand need any more reasons than those I outlined? 

I can continue since you are not satisfied:

How about been treated as a criminal, having to report to the police in two different provinces every time you leave your home (habitat province) for more than 24 hours, how about reporting to immigration officers every 90 days (more than a criminal on parole in my country), how about getting charged double, or up to 10 times the amount of a Thai just because you have white skin (Farang), how about local people regularly speaking bad about you behind your back thinking you don't understand Thai, how about having to produce an annual criminal record from your home country (work permit), even if you haven't lived there for 15 years (you've been living in Thailand!), how about having to produce a medical record annually (for work permit) confirming you don't have 7 different sexual diseases (are Thais (and immigration officials) allowed to live in Thailand with any of these diseases)?, how about being appallingly discriminated on the property market?, how about having to pay exorbitant prices for quality goods from Farang-land because Thailand and Thais are unable to produce quality goods?, how about living in a country where local food, environment and air quality is a direct threat to your health due to mismanagement and an insane level of corruption?

Do you want me to continue?

 

I am with you on all points. I even mention several times lining up for 90 day reports while paying income tax. It looks and sounds absolutely ridiculous, right out of Kafka book.

 

However, I have been in Canada now for almost 2 months. I even brought my wife on permanent resident visa. Others have told me, but I didn't believe them.... the West has really turned into a toilet hole. My wife got a job back in Thailand so she is back. I will be back in 2 weeks. I don't know what other place there is that's as comfortable as Thailand. I may have to swallow my pride for this tax thing or simply spend some time travelling around for more than 6 months.

Edited March 25 by Celsius

[JimGant]

9 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Do you want me to continue?

 

No, just leave. With your sense of disproportion, I can understand why Thais speak badly about you behind your back. Cheers.

[Ben Zioner]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Rather over the top. There must be other reasons you are not happy here.

The course I play in Hua Hin only give 100 baht discount to me for being a Thai, hardly going to break the bank, 

Btw, I was charged 5,000 baht more than my pal at Royal Melbourne Golf club for being a foreigner. 

Not. Have you calculated the amount of tax @MartinBangkok  would pay to Thailand, for nothing in return? I have calculated what I would have paid over the past year and came up with a figure of 25%. If I didn't have LTR I'd be gone.

[Yumthai]

17 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

The only way to avoided taxation being the LTR visa.

So basically, Thailand tries to copy the worst of the so-called developed world: wealthy people do legally not pay tax, the poor ones neither. Just milk the law abiding working-their-ass middle class to their death. No need to wonder why all this will not end well, globally.

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Not. Have you calculated the amount of tax @MartinBangkok  would pay to Thailand, for nothing in return? I have calculated what I would have paid over the past year and came up with a figure of 25%. If I didn't have LTR I'd be gone.

I've no idea how much he earns. 

Is Thailand's tax rate higher than Israel's? You can't be taxed twice.

[UKresonant]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I've no idea how much he earns. 

Is Thailand's tax rate higher than Israel's? You can't be taxed twice.

Well compared with UK tax that 25% would be about right probably, if it were 2.1m Baht remitted, ( not sure if the other 30% stayed off shore )

 

Under 65, roughly the Thai Tax is more than the UK between 1M THB and 2M Baht, with the 25% and 30% bands Vs 20%, doesn't become Consistantly less compared with UK until past the 2.1 million Baht level, e.g. 35% Vs 40% 

 

Just looking at pension income, gains and Dis would be worse.

Edited March 26 by UKresonant