New "Income" tax law 2024

[Tom Vanderlay]

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

And will all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas) be subject to this tax?

 

Does having a double tax treaty have any effect on this (I am a tax resident of Thailand - staying here more than 180 days per year.  I am required to file income taxes in my home country but always pay nothing as my income is below the threshold)?
 
Also, does anyone have a link to the law in English?  Thanks

[bunnydrops]

I don't think anyone really knows at this time. Waiting for clarity.

[treetops]

Lots of discussion in the banks/finance subforum but as above, no-one knows how it'll be implemented.

[jaideedave]

7 hours ago, Tom Vanderlay said:

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

And will all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas) be subject to this tax?

 

Does having a double tax treaty have any effect on this (I am a tax resident of Thailand - staying here more than 180 days per year.  I am required to file income taxes in my home country but always pay nothing as my income is below the threshold)?
 
Also, does anyone have a link to the law in English?  Thanks

I am in a similar situation as yourself.I pay no income tax on my pensions because it is below a certain threshold also. I won,t be able to prove that I have paid tax already.I have a letter from the tax dept stating about the tax exemption.  Wait and see I suppose.

[SammyJ]

6 hours ago, treetops said:

Lots of discussion in the banks/finance subforum but as above, no-one knows how it'll be implemented.

Actually, there has been some very informative articles in recent Bkk Post online.

[CMBob]

12 hours ago, Tom Vanderlay said:

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

My guess is the answer is (and has been) "yes" to this question....and government is already getting 15% being withheld from bank interest; however, given there is an exemption of 150,000 baht per year, likely you can file a Thai income tax return to retrieve the 15% withheld (unless your total income here is over the 150k threshold).

As concerns the new tax law, I'm doubtful it will affect anybody who is from a country which already has a Tax Convention agreement with Thailand.  Even though you are below the threshold for taxes in your home country, it is income technically taxable in your home country and shouldn't be taxable here.

The new law, in my view, mainly eliminates the loophole where a Thai earns income outside of Thailand but elects to wait until the following year to transfer it back to Thailand (which under prior law made it non-taxable here in Thailand).  Even for those people, assuming they pay taxes on their income in the country where they work, I'd guess there are deductions here for taxes already paid (i.e., I'm doubtful anybody is going to be double-taxed on the same income).

But, as a lot of people have said, the devil will be in the details which have not been adequately explained in any news article I've read.

[newbee2022]

12 hours ago, Tom Vanderlay said:

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

And will all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas) be subject to this tax?

 

Does having a double tax treaty have any effect on this (I am a tax resident of Thailand - staying here more than 180 days per year.  I am required to file income taxes in my home country but always pay nothing as my income is below the threshold)?
 
Also, does anyone have a link to the law in English?  Thanks

...ask the crystal ball.....????

[MangoKorat]

Over the years I've seen lots of new laws proposed on various subjects relating to foreigners/immigration - very few of them are ever heard of again and those that are, are usually a watered down version.  I'm just gonna sit back and wait to see if this one ends up the same.

[Lazinonthebeach]

I was amazed to discover that all the double taxation treaties are online in English and Thai and can be found on a Google search. It's pretty clear that there are treaties with most countries that expats come from and that there is very little they will be able to tax on overseas income for most retirement visa holders. 

[crazykopite]

The U.K. has a tax treaty with Thailand and as I have a number of U.K. pensions I am already taxed at source on those pensions and one of them ( OAP ) is also frozen so I get stung whichever way I turn Pensioners in my humble opinion should be exempt from paying taxes you even end up paying them when your placed in your wooden suit .

[soalbundy]

Stop assuming this is a law coming into affect 01 2024, and don't do anything to encourage the tax man like applying for a tax number. It is only half baked at the moment and probably nothing will happen, Thailand, like most other countries, is feeling the financial pinch and searching around in desperation for income to fill the coffers. European countries are either in recession or teetering on the brink of one, in America there is a credit crunch and fear of recession, China is a basket case and its downfall will affect not only the nations on its periphery but also big institutions in the west, the Russian/Ukraine war is adding to the negative equation. Typical boom and bust cycle, unfortunately the bust cycle that we are in seems to be getting deeper and longer this time. We are fortunate not to have to suffer the freezing winter in the Northern hemisphere so let us be grateful for that at least.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, CMBob said:

My guess is the answer is (and has been) "yes" to this question....and government is already getting 15% being withheld from bank interest; however, given there is an exemption of 150,000 baht per year, likely you can file a Thai income tax return to retrieve the 15% withheld (unless your total income here is over the 150k threshold).

As concerns the new tax law, I'm doubtful it will affect anybody who is from a country which already has a Tax Convention agreement with Thailand.  Even though you are below the threshold for taxes in your home country, it is income technically taxable in your home country and shouldn't be taxable here.

The new law, in my view, mainly eliminates the loophole where a Thai earns income outside of Thailand but elects to wait until the following year to transfer it back to Thailand (which under prior law made it non-taxable here in Thailand).  Even for those people, assuming they pay taxes on their income in the country where they work, I'd guess there are deductions here for taxes already paid (i.e., I'm doubtful anybody is going to be double-taxed on the same income).

But, as a lot of people have said, the devil will be in the details which have not been adequately explained in any news article I've read.

I too agree we should wait until we see the official announcement of implementation of this law.  But if one makes any money via interest on savings or income from outside Thailand, then unless the persoin can show officially that they are required to pay in one of the countries with tax agreement with Thailand then one might have to pay taxes on that income even though it might not meet the taxable criteria in one's home country.  WE just have to wait to see what they really think that they are going to get from the long-stayers. Hopefully they will realize it is an effort in futility if they have to work with all the foreing governments.

[topt]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

The U.K. has a tax treaty with Thailand and as I have a number of U.K. pensions I am already taxed at source on those pensions and one of them ( OAP ) is also frozen so I get stung whichever way I turn Pensioners in my humble opinion should be exempt from paying taxes you even end up paying them when your placed in your wooden suit .

Just to make you feel worse you should be aware that the DTA between UK and Thailand specifically excludes pensions unless government (civil service).

 

So in theory we could end up being taxed twice depending on how this plays out. The state pension does not count as govt. either .......

 

See Thailand on page 34 on the linked document and look across to note 4 on the far right.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

[khunPer]

17 hours ago, Tom Vanderlay said:

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

And will all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas) be subject to this tax?

 

Does having a double tax treaty have any effect on this (I am a tax resident of Thailand - staying here more than 180 days per year.  I am required to file income taxes in my home country but always pay nothing as my income is below the threshold)?
 
Also, does anyone have a link to the law in English?  Thanks

The new income taxation of all foreign transfer – not covered by an existing Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) – will, as it says, be all money transferred from abroad. There are at the moment no further details, to my knowledge.

 

In reply to your questions:
"... money already in a bank account..."

Funds already in Thailand are not being taxed, it's only foreign income/transfers.

 

"...all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas)..."
Yes, that's the whole purpose; i.e. to tax foreign savings and close the tax-hole for income that is saved abroad till next calendar year or later years, and then would be income tax free to transfer to Thailand.

 

"...Does having a double tax treaty have any effect..."

Yes, anything covered by a DTA will be in accordance to what have been agreed. It can vary from state to state.

Very general, income, pension and dividends that are taxed in one's home country will not be double taxed. Most countries have tax rates lower than the Thai rates, so no additional tax apply, in case the income can be taxed in both states – which for example retirement pension from my home country can be according to the DTA with Thailand – or double tax will be refunded. If the tax rate is lower in one's home country, it might be taxed by Thai rate and the difference must be paid. Interest and capital gain is fully taxable in Thailand, if income tax is omitted in one's home country.

If savings are not specific mentioned in a DTA, they seems be taxable when transferred to Thailand, which is the main point of the rule.

[Everyman]

6 hours ago, khunPer said:

The new income taxation of all foreign transfer – not covered by an existing Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) – will, as it says, be all money transferred from abroad. There are at the moment no further details, to my knowledge.

 

In reply to your questions:
"... money already in a bank account..."

Funds already in Thailand are not being taxed, it's only foreign income/transfers.

 

"...all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas)..."
Yes, that's the whole purpose; i.e. to tax foreign savings and close the tax-hole for income that is saved abroad till next calendar year or later years, and then would be income tax free to transfer to Thailand.

 

"...Does having a double tax treaty have any effect..."

Yes, anything covered by a DTA will be in accordance to what have been agreed. It can vary from state to state.

Very general, income, pension and dividends that are taxed in one's home country will not be double taxed. Most countries have tax rates lower than the Thai rates, so no additional tax apply, in case the income can be taxed in both states – which for example retirement pension from my home country can be according to the DTA with Thailand – or double tax will be refunded. If the tax rate is lower in one's home country, it might be taxed by Thai rate and the difference must be paid. Interest and capital gain is fully taxable in Thailand, if income tax is omitted in one's home country.

If savings are not specific mentioned in a DTA, they seems be taxable when transferred to Thailand, which is the main point of the rule.

I can’t believe that Thai authorities will go through the trouble to avoid taking money transferred from a DTA country. 

 

Instead they will take everything and then make you prove you are from a DTA country and that you paid taxes at a rate equal to or higher than the Thai rate. 

 

Since capital gains taxes are going to be far less than the top Thai tax rate of 35%, the difference will have to be made up. 

 

Hopefully this will go the way of prior ridiculous announcements, like that Thailand will host the tour de France, or open nuclear power plants or buy F-18s from America or that everyone will get 10,000 baht. 

[IAMHERE]

My guess is money will be 'taxed' withheld for a few months, incorrectly and returned if you are able to jump thru the hoops and red tape.

[Skeptic7]

Interest on foreigners money in Thai banks is already taxed automatically. Started a few years back. That said... 

 

Nobody knows anything because as typical, Thailand imbeciles spouting off another ill-considered BS money grab scheme without a clue and zero forethought of implications, existing treaties, exemptions, enforcement. Clear as mud, as usual.

 

Constantly scamming for ways to pay for their problems with others money. Never manning up, never taking responsibility and never solving their inept country's designed poverty/inequality from within and leading by example. Because it has nothing to do with that. That's the con, the smokescreen, the lie. Those in need will see a pittance at best and all the fat cats at the top will prosper immensely and widen that gap even further. 

[Mike Teavee]

20 hours ago, CMBob said:

My guess is the answer is (and has been) "yes" to this question....

My answer is NO... Any changes will start from next year so anything you bring over before then won't be taxable. 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

18 hours ago, Lazinonthebeach said:

I was amazed to discover that all the double taxation treaties are online in English and Thai and can be found on a Google search. It's pretty clear that there are treaties with most countries that expats come from and that there is very little they will be able to tax on overseas income for most retirement visa holders. 

As has been posted already, if you're from the UK & not an Ex-Civil Servant/ Armed Forces then your Pension is not covered by the Double Taxation Agreement & so could be liable to Tax in Thailand. 

 

 

 

I've decided that if the worse happens & I am liable for Thai tax on my UK Savings/Income (I've filed a Tax Return every year since I was 18 so know I've paid whatever taxes are due in the UK ), I'm simply going to do 1 year in every 3 as a non-Tax resident in Thailand & bring enough money over that year to live on for the 3 years... Let's see them tax that.

[WhatsNext]

21 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

 I'm simply going to do 1 year in every 3 as a non-Tax resident in Thailand & bring enough money over that year to live on for the 3 years... Let's see them tax that.

Oh now that is a good one !

 

I was planning to get an international account, get my pension there and get money that i need here out with a debit/credit card from the ATM. Which could work except when you want to get a new Audi for 4 million baht. 

[Digitalbanana]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:20 AM, Tom Vanderlay said:

Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

Maybe you are thinking of capital gains on that money? This has been taxable in the form of WHT every 6 months for a few years already.

[freeworld]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:20 AM, Tom Vanderlay said:

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax? - NO, only the interest income is subject to tax.

And will all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas) be subject to this tax? - Income may be taxed according to the DTA, if it is over the tax threshold then it probably would need to be declared. Savings from income which has already been taxed will be protected by a DTA and one would probably have to show some kind of document to show it has already been taxed. NO pure savings is not taxed, only the interest income will be subject to tax over the tax free allowance.

 

Does having a double tax treaty have any effect on this (I am a tax resident of Thailand - staying here more than 180 days per year.  I am required to file income taxes in my home country but always pay nothing as my income is below the threshold)? - If you are tax resident in Thailand and depends on the tax laws of Thailand what you have to submit. Income over a certain amount and one needs to file a tax return.
 
Also, does anyone have a link to the law in English?  Thanks - Search Thai tax laws on line, they are in Thai and then Translate it using google translate.

TAXABLE INCOME = Assessable Income - deductions - allowances

[Everyman]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

As has been posted already, if you're from the UK & not an Ex-Civil Servant/ Armed Forces then your Pension is not covered by the Double Taxation Agreement & so could be liable to Tax in Thailand. 

 

 

 

I've decided that if the worse happens & I am liable for Thai tax on my UK Savings/Income (I've filed a Tax Return every year since I was 18 so know I've paid whatever taxes are due in the UK ), I'm simply going to do 1 year in every 3 as a non-Tax resident in Thailand & bring enough money over that year to live on for the 3 years... Let's see them tax that.

I like your idea, but since tourists can’t open Thai bank accounts anymore, they could assume that anyone with a Thai account is a tax resident. Then you would have to prove you are not in order to get your withholding back. 

[Mike Teavee]

45 minutes ago, Everyman said:

I like your idea, but since tourists can’t open Thai bank accounts anymore, they could assume that anyone with a Thai account is a tax resident. Then you would have to prove you are not in order to get your withholding back. 

No, the rules are very clear... < 180 days in any 1 calendar/tax year = Non-Tax resident. 

 

Besides it's relatively straight forward to open a bank account even on a Visa Exempt if you're willing to pay an agent 3,700b (4,700 if >64).

 

[Smokin Joe]

The change that goes into effect 1 Jan 2024 is not a new law. It is a new interpretation of the current law. It was released on 15 Sep 2023.

 

The Revenue Departmental Instruction No. Por. 161/2566 15 September 2566

 

https://www.hlbthai.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/RD-Instruction-No.-Paw161-2566-Translation.pdf

 

"Clause 3 This instruction shall apply to assessable income brought into Thailand
from 1 January 2024 onwards."

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The law only applies to assessable income

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

2.1 Assessable Income

Income chargeable to the PIT is called “assessable income”. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. Therefore, any benefits provided by an employer or other persons, such as a rent-free house or the amount of tax paid by the employer on behalf of the employee, is also treated as assessable income of the employee for the purpose of PIT. Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

1. income from personal services rendered to employers;
2. income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;
3. income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;
4. income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;
5. income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;
6. income from liberal professions;
7. income from construction and other contracts of work;
8. income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Any tax of assessable income is also subject to the terms of the Double Tax Agreement's that Thailand has with 61 different countries. This link has PDF copies of all the Tax Agreement's

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In my opinion the PM was just posturing and afterwards his advisors and govt lawyers explained that what he wants to do is not possible and that he should just go get himself a nice hot cup of shut the <deleted> up.

 

I believe that the new interpretation of the law was just done to appease the PM but will will change nothing.

 

Thailand has no way to determine if money brought in is assessable or not. And if they just start taxing people on everything and violate the terms of international treaties there would be a <deleted> storm.

 

 

[safarimike11]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:20 AM, Tom Vanderlay said:

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

And will all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas) be subject to this tax?

 

Does having a double tax treaty have any effect on this (I am a tax resident of Thailand - staying here more than 180 days per year.  I am required to file income taxes in my home country but always pay nothing as my income is below the threshold)?
 
Also, does anyone have a link to the law in English?  Thanks

Question 1 answer: If you have money in a savings account, the interest will be taxed at 15%, so if the savings account is advertised as paying 1%, you will receive 0.85% net.

[federicoP]

I believe that these new changes are aimed above all at Thais who have financial activities abroad and who manage not to pay taxes.
I believe that the importance of this problem for Thailand Government is much, much greater than ours.
But we, in this forum, are focused on our personal problems as expats, and we discuss as if these innovations were created specifically to hit us and not with other objectives.

Furthermore the treaties against double taxation that currently exist will be able to significantly alleviate or resolve the problem for us and, in some cases, even be favorable.

[foreverlomsak]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:20 AM, Tom Vanderlay said:

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows whether money already in a bank account here in Thailand is subject to this tax?

And will all money transfered into Thailand, regardless of source (even savings from overseas) be subject to this tax?

 

Does having a double tax treaty have any effect on this (I am a tax resident of Thailand - staying here more than 180 days per year.  I am required to file income taxes in my home country but always pay nothing as my income is below the threshold)?
 
Also, does anyone have a link to the law in English?  Thanks

1. It is not a new law but an application of existing rules. Extract from Thai Revenue Department Personal Income Tax, last updated Nov 2020.

“Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

[Robin]

I believe that most if not all Thais also pay tax on interest from bank savings accounts.

After asking various Thai friends i also believe that few Thais pay much if any tax.  Local shops or sole traders all seem bemused at the thought of having to submit an annual tax return, and I have been told that if I need to pay tax, I ill be asked by thee Revenue Dept. to pay.  

So, I am waiting to see what happens.  I have been living partly in Thailand for the last 10yrs on a Retirement extension, while working oversea as sole trader.  Always paid from overseas, often into Thai bank account, and not comments.  I always understood that my income from overseas was not subject to Thai Tax.  I was a non-resident in UK at that time and only paid tax on unearned income in UK.

Noe i have stopped working I was looking forward to retirement nd living on my savings and investments, kept in UK and Singapore..  NOw it sems that Srettha is destroying that dream.. If he really is going through with this idea, that that will be the end of Thailand as a Retirement Destination. He is said to be  'property developer', but this is not going to help him sell many properties to retirees wanting to live in Thailand.

If Srettha wants to increase his tx revenue, he should look a collecting all taxes not being paid by Thais, but this would make him un-popular and not help his chances of re-election.   

As a ( successful?) business man, surely Srettha has picked up some financial common sense?

[huberthammer]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:47 AM, Mike Teavee said:

As has been posted already, if you're from the UK & not an Ex-Civil Servant/ Armed Forces then your Pension is not covered by the Double Taxation Agreement & so could be liable to Tax in Thailand. 

 

 

 

I've decided that if the worse happens & I am liable for Thai tax on my UK Savings/Income (I've filed a Tax Return every year since I was 18 so know I've paid whatever taxes are due in the UK ), I'm simply going to do 1 year in every 3 as a non-Tax resident in Thailand & bring enough money over that year to live on for the 3 years... Let's see them tax that.

sounds like a great idea aside from the Thai government interpreting the rules as they see fit. I read similar comments when it came to showing  bank balances for immigration and unfortunately they did not see it as the optimistic chap saw it. At the end they are in a much stronger position than us on these issues.

 

I am pretty sure if you stay here 180+ days for 2 years and then stay away for 1 year and get back they will go after you and aside from the huge bureaucratic hassle there is a good chance they will hit you for the tax anyway unless you show that you were declared a tax citizen elsewhere and did declare a tax return. Don't forget, they have the upper hand. If they think something is fishey they will block your accounts and might even collect the passport until all is sorted.